Mel Kiper- Jake Long is a Left Tackle

[TotoreMexico]

When Texans fans make the pick...let me know...and if I wanted a certain player...and thought perhaps you would be interested in that player also...I would do what every team does....blow smoke....it's called deception. We will never know the truth...but it's certain we should have picked Willis over a returner with the 9th pick.

Please explain why they drafted a WR with their very next pick:rolleyes2:

 

[jim1]

Oh that's OK then, thanks for clearing that up.

I think clarification is needed. Yes, Jake Long can play LT in the NFL. But at the quality expected of a number 1 pick? No, not in my opinion or that of enough people to make you worry. Someone's opinion I really value said that he was Stephen Neal at left tackle. I suspect he might be an All Pro RT. But do you draft a RT with the first overall pick, especially when you have a Pro Bowl calibre RT on the team already?

No.

Jeff Ireland and Tony Sparano better be certain that Jake can play LT at a high level if they intend to draft him. If they do, then so be it. If they're not 100% certain, then they can't take him. I've written earlier in the thread why I think he'll struggle in space outside.

How do you rate WR's? Is Wes Welker an outstanding WR or just an outstanding #2 WR? What about Fred Biletnikoff? Was he one of the best or was he just the guy playing opposite Cliff Branch? What about Steve Largent, how do you place a value upon him given that he wasn't a deep threat? Why was Keyshawn Johnson the 1st pick in the draft when he wasn't a true #1, lacking burning speed ? Who drafted him?

The point is that if you suspect that JLong might be an All-Pro RT why not take him? I sure as hell would. Just because he isn't guarding the QB's blind side doesn't mean that he isn't performing a critical function if he were to play RT. Look at the Giants and the heat that they bring with Strahan and Umenyora. If the heat is coming then the heat is coming, regardless from what side. And, of course, Long is a smash mouth, kick your *** type of run blocker.

If this guy could be either a very good LT or has a good chance of being an All-Pro RT as you suspect, goddamn right I'm taking him. And if I can pick up Cherilius at #32 to play RT and move Carey inside to dominate at Guard, I might do that. Maybe Nicks, too. And if I can take Chris Williams or Anthony Collins at #32 and move Carey back to RT, great. All the better Collins/Mormino or Hadnot/Satele/Carey/Long. This is the year to fix the freaking OL and have it done with for the next decade. Plenty of picks from #57 on down to fix the D, and free agent money to burn, too.

If we can give Beck some time, Ginn some time, RB and RW some time, good things can happen. In a word, synergy.

 

[I am Bane]

I do think he is better suited to left tackle then Carey. Would you agree?

eh, if we're gonna run non-stop to the left side then yes. but Jake is slower footed than Carey, and will struggle with speed rushers that have a variety of moves. like Dwight Freeny- 3 sacks i predict (no joke). you can set up Jake pretty easily, he isn't overly agile.

better than Carey, not sure... but he would be nice to have on the other side of Carey.

 

[JT#1]

How do you rate WR's? Is Wes Welker an outstanding WR or just an outstanding #2 WR? What about Fred Biletnikoff? Was he one of the best or was he just the guy playing opposite Cliff Branch? Why was Keyshawn Johnson the 1st pick in the draft when he wasn't a true #1, lacking burning speed ? Who drafted him?

The point is that if you suspect that JLong might be an All-Pro RT why not take him? I sure as hell would. Just because he isn't guarding the QB's blind side doesn't mean that he isn't performing a critical function. Look at the Giants and the heat that they bring with Strahan and Umenyora. If the heat is coming then the heat is coming, regardless from what side.

If this guy could be either a very good LT or has a good chance of being an All-Pro RT as you suspect, goddamn right I'm taking him. And if I can pick up Cherilius at #32 to play RT and move Carey inside to dominate at Guard, I might do that. Maybe Nicks, too. And if I can take Chris Williams or Anthony Collins at #32 and move Carey back to RT, great. All the better Collins/Mormino or Hadnot/Satele/Carey/Long. This is the year to fix the freaking OL and have it done with for the next decade. Plenty of picks from #57 on down to fix the D, and free agent money to burn, too.

If we can give Beck some time, Ginn some time, RB and RW some time, good things can happen. In a word, synergy.

you don't pay #1 pick money on a RT. Its just not a wise investment

 

[jim1]

you don't pay #1 pick money on a RT. Its just not a wise investment

What would you have invested in Fred Biletnikoff or Steve Largent? What were they worth? How do you rate them. After all, they were second class, possession type Wide Receivers, right? Do you not pay big money on guys like that? Are they not worth it? WOuld #2 receivers like those two be valuable and highly paid in today's free agent market? And in terms of #1 pick money, again I'll ask why was Keyshawn Johnson taken #1 overall since he wasn't fast enought to be a true #1? And didn't Bill Parcells draft him?

Hopefully we can get beyond this remedial level "protecting the blind side of the QB argument- I get it. Let's just call the point mute. Am I taking him over a Carson Palmer? No. Dorsey? Maybe because of the 3-4 vs. 4-3 thing. Chris Long? Not enough info.

A dominating tackle is a dominating tackle- of course there's value added to LT protecting the QB's blind side. But if I can draft a guy who has a great chance of being either a very good LT or an All-Pro calliber RT, I'm taking him. It's not like the guy is a long snapper, he's a tackle.

I feel like the guy in Zorba the Greek trying to knock the brick wall down with my head, time to stop.

 

[JT#1]

What would you have invested in Fred Biletnikoff or Steve Largent? What were they worth? How do you rate them. After all, they were second class, possession type Wide Receivers, right? Do you not pay big money on guys like that? Are they not worth it? WOuld #2 receivers like those two be valuable and highly paid in today's free agent market? And in terms of #1 pick money, again I'll ask why was Keyshawn Johnson taken #1 overall since he wasn't fast enought to be a true #? And didn't Bill Parcells draft him?

Hopefully we can get beyond this remedial level "protecting the blind side of the QB argument- I get it. Let's just call the point mute. Am I taking him over a Carson Palmer? No. Dorsey? Maybe because of the 3-4 vs. 4-3 thing. Chris Long? Not enough info.

A dominating tackle is a dominating tackle- of course there's value added to LT protecting the QB's blind side. But if I can draft a guy who has a great chance of being either a very good LT or an All-Pro calliber RT, I'm taking him. It's not like the guy is a long snapper, he's a tackle.

I feel like the guy in Zorba the Greek trying to knock the brick wall down with my head, time to stop.

We already have an All-Pro Caliber Rt in vernon carey what we need is a left tackle, in terms of your comparison it would be signing Biletnikoff when we already have Largent.

 

[jim1]

eh, if we're gonna run non-stop to the left side then yes. but Jake is slower footed than Carey, and will struggle with speed rushers that have a variety of moves. like Dwight Freeny- 3 sacks i predict (no joke). you can set up Jake pretty easily, he isn't overly agile.

better than Carey, not sure... but he would be nice to have on the other side of Carey.

Slower footed than Carey? I'm not so sure about that. I view JLong as a better athlete than most on this board. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, who knows. But from what I've seen I doubt it.

 

[I am Bane]

Slower footed than Carey? I'm not so sure about that. I view JLong as a better athlete than most on this board. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, who knows. But from what I've seen I doubt it.

Jake is quite slow footed... running game though he locks on and game over for whomever he is blocking. passing game is different, cause you need to shuffle your feet with base, while using your hands and ballance. he struggles step cupping when a speed rush to the outside and staying with the guy. he also struggles when having to step inside and then the rusher doubles to the outside... jake struggles drop step***** nd sliding with him. techniques he can learn, but he needs to work on his feet.

 

[jim1]

We already have an All-Pro Caliber Rt in vernon carey what we need is a left tackle, in terms of your comparison it would be signing Biletnikoff when we already have Largent.

Is Carey ideally suited for RT or Guard? There are 4 Guards and tackles (combined), and normally 2 Wide Receivers. Not the same thing.

I don't think that we're going to draft JLong, I'm just arguing that he's worth it. Probably the most efficient means of solving the problem is to draft Williams/Baker/Collins at #32 to play LT, move Carey back to RT, and have it done with. With Shelton, Alabi and Toledo/Belushi gone, they sure as hell have to do something.

 

[jim1]

Jake is quite slow footed... running game though he locks on and game over for whomever he is blocking. passing game is different, cause you need to shuffle your feet with base, while using your hands and ballance. he struggles step cupping when a speed rush to the outside and staying with the guy. he also struggles when having to step inside and then the rusher doubles to the outside... jake struggles drop step***** nd sliding with him. techniques he can learn, but he needs to work on his feet.

Quite slow footed my ***. The guy runs a 5.0 40, did not look slow footed to me when I saw Michigan play, and if you haven't seen the footage of him training in that Mel Kiper ESPN piece, you should do so.

 

[I am Bane]

Quite slow footed my ***. The guy runs a 5.0 40, did not look slow footed to me when I saw Michigan play, and if you haven't seen the footage of him training in that Mel Kiper ESPN piece, you should do so.

pasblocking is different then 40 time. its step cupping with base... sliding with the rusher. one-on-one, his footwork is poor, he's not QUICK, and he doesnt pass-block with a great base... hence why he struggled quite often with speed rushers to the outside.

i watch almost every michigan game too... on tv quite often up here. but just my thoughts on what i saw.

 

[JT#1]

Quite slow footed my ***. The guy runs a 5.0 40, did not look slow footed to me when I saw Michigan play, and if you haven't seen the footage of him training in that Mel Kiper ESPN piece, you should do so.

you don't run straight ahead when your pass blocking, so 40 time is mute.

 

[jim1]

you don't run straight ahead when your pass blocking, so 40 time is mute.

So 40 time is mute, as in it doesn't matter. Riiiiighhtt. It's not the end all and be all- quickness and footwork I would imagine are more important, cone drill, shuttle, stuff like that, but don't tell me that it doesn't matter. Or tell Joe Staley, or the 49'ers for that matter. Ask Mr. Staley how much more money is in his bank account because of his 40 time.

If the 40 time is mute, then why does the scouting combine have OL's run it?

 

[dlockz]

Please explain why they drafted a WR with their very next pick:rolleyes2:

In the third round the 73rd pick. DL was a much bigger need for them and Okaye was considered a better prospect than Ginn by most teams so we will never know Houston would have done much like the Beck supporters that thin that if Quinn was still there when we chose Beck that we would have passed.

 

[Rev Kev]

How do you rate WR's? Is Wes Welker an outstanding WR or just an outstanding #2 WR? What about Fred Biletnikoff? Was he one of the best or was he just the guy playing opposite Cliff Branch? What about Steve Largent, how do you place a value upon him given that he wasn't a deep threat? Why was Keyshawn Johnson the 1st pick in the draft when he wasn't a true #1, lacking burning speed ? Who drafted him?

The point is that if you suspect that JLong might be an All-Pro RT why not take him? I sure as hell would. Just because he isn't guarding the QB's blind side doesn't mean that he isn't performing a critical function if he were to play RT. Look at the Giants and the heat that they bring with Strahan and Umenyora. If the heat is coming then the heat is coming, regardless from what side. And, of course, Long is a smash mouth, kick your *** type of run blocker.

If this guy could be either a very good LT or has a good chance of being an All-Pro RT as you suspect, goddamn right I'm taking him. And if I can pick up Cherilius at #32 to play RT and move Carey inside to dominate at Guard, I might do that. Maybe Nicks, too. And if I can take Chris Williams or Anthony Collins at #32 and move Carey back to RT, great. All the better Collins/Mormino or Hadnot/Satele/Carey/Long. This is the year to fix the freaking OL and have it done with for the next decade. Plenty of picks from #57 on down to fix the D, and free agent money to burn, too.

If we can give Beck some time, Ginn some time, RB and RW some time, good things can happen. In a word, synergy.

You can't go wrong with the top players in the draft question is what's your favourite drink... OT DL, even QB is a need...