Mel Kiper- Jake Long is a Left Tackle | Page 17 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Mel Kiper- Jake Long is a Left Tackle

With Miami having a pretty serious interest in Chris Williams, I'd expect that #1 pick to be on Long or Dorsey.

If Williams and Albert were sitting there at #32 who would you take? If Cherilius were there at #57 would you even consider playing Carey at Guard (assuming Williams or Albert were to play LT)?

I keep going through this in my mind and keep coming to the same conclusion- we can resolve the long standing OL issues in this draft if we want to, and if we do so we may have the foundation of one of the best offensive lines in football. Finally.
 
I'm not sure it makes your point at all. You have to look at the run pass ratio's, especially considering for much of the season the Wolverines ran with a true freshman QB and against the quality of end he played against and the blocking schemes they use.

A blind man would tell you that Jeff Otah is a better pure pass blocker than Jake Long. But Otah "gave up more sacks".

Otah is super raw...another LT project...we have had enough of them.

2007: Finished second in the voting for the Lombardi Award and Outland Trophy…Unanimous All-Big Ten Conference first-team pick and named the league's Offensive Lineman of the Year for the second-straight season…Added Academic All-Big Ten Conference honors… Hugh R. Rader Jr. Memorial Award recipient as Michigan's top offensive lineman and received the Mike Gittleson Award, given to the U-M player who exhibits a resolute work ethic and commitment to preparing for the game...Served as team captain for the second consecutive campaign, starting all thirteen games at left offensive tackle…Helped the team average 385.1 yards per game…The Wolverines amassed 1,251 of their 2,144 yards on the ground over Long's left tackle position, as he registered 119 knockdowns, including 18 touchdown-resulting blocks…Allowed only one quarterback sack on 423 pass plays and was penalized just once, finishing with an 87.85% grade for blocking consistency…Also recorded one solo tackle. All-American, started all 13 games at left tackle in '06. Missed time w/ankle injury. Played in final five games and started four games at left tackle in '05. All-Big Ten second team in '04. Did not see game action in '03.

Only one sack on 423 pass plays. What more do you want?
There's no perfect LT...only great ones...and he's the Dolphins best and only chance with the first pick....of course we could get lucky and find a trading partner and trade down...then what....select the next best player...there's risk in every player. We have to finally take care of the LT position....without that I don't care who the QB will be for the Dolphins...he won't have the time to make plays...he'll be running for his life as they have since Webb left.
 
If Williams and Albert were sitting there at #32 who would you take? If Cherilius were there at #57 would you even consider playing Carey at Guard (assuming Williams or Albert were to play LT)?

I keep going through this in my mind and keep coming to the same conclusion- we can resolve the long standing OL issues in this draft if we want to, and if we do so we may have the foundation of one of the best offensive lines in football. Finally.

Preachin to the choir baby... :hi5:

We'll dictate the offensive game..., run heavily..., audible..., play-action pass when they play 8 in the box... Then we'll see how good Beck is... We'll see how good Ginn is... We already know how RB plays..., LOBO looked very good in limited action... There should be no QB excuses... when the QB has time to make at least a second possibly third read...
 
If Williams and Albert were sitting there at #32 who would you take? If Cherilius were there at #57 would you even consider playing Carey at Guard (assuming Williams or Albert were to play LT)?

I keep going through this in my mind and keep coming to the same conclusion- we can resolve the long standing OL issues in this draft if we want to, and if we do so we may have the foundation of one of the best offensive lines in football. Finally.

At #32, I would order my preference (assuming Otah is long gone):
1. Albert
2. Williams
3. Collins
4. Baker

If Cherilus were there at #57, it would be difficult for me to take him unless we took Albert at 32. If you managed to steal Albert at 32 and Cherilus at 57, that is a pretty formidable looking OL. All you need is a RG (maybe get lucky with someone like Randy Thomas).

LT-Carey
LG-Albert
C-Satele
RG-Thomas
RT-Cherilus.

Of course the chances of Albert being at 32, and Cherilus at 57, AND having us take both of them are pretty slim.
 
Jake Long is not even the best tackle in this draft. In fact, he is not even the second best. To make matters worse, he is not even a left tackle.

Stats are so misleading. Long will struggle at the next level to anchor against strong defensive linemen and kick out against fast defensive linemen. There is no way Miami would draft Long having looked at the tape. I refuse to believe they are that incompetent.
 
Cherilus is limited athletically and is far from a road grader. I think he may end up being one of those players who can start but are always in the process of being replaced. He is a good football player and will give a team depth, but I question taking him as early as some are considering.
 
With Miami having a pretty serious interest in Chris Williams, I'd expect that #1 pick to be on Long or Dorsey.

I'm good with that..., just please..., heavily draft/pick D & Olinemen who can compete every play..., not freakin projects tired of projects...
 
Cherilus is limited athletically and is far from a road grader. I think he may end up being one of those players who can start but are always in the process of being replaced. He is a good football player and will give a team depth, but I question taking him as early as some are considering.

Cherilus should go in the 40-50 range IMO, and I think he will be an excellent RT. He is limited athletically, and that's why he struggled at LT and is far better suited on the right sde of the line.
 
I am reluctant to label him an excellent right tackle. I am more comfortable with describing him as an adequate right tackle. I say this because excellent right tackles make up for their athletic limitations with excellent strength. Cherilus does not do this. He is limited athletically with average strength. That is why I believe he will be merely adequate to the point where he is always on the fringe of being replaced.
 
Otah is super raw...another LT project...we have had enough of them.

2007: Finished second in the voting for the Lombardi Award and Outland Trophy…Unanimous All-Big Ten Conference first-team pick and named the league's Offensive Lineman of the Year for the second-straight season…Added Academic All-Big Ten Conference honors… Hugh R. Rader Jr. Memorial Award recipient as Michigan's top offensive lineman and received the Mike Gittleson Award, given to the U-M player who exhibits a resolute work ethic and commitment to preparing for the game...Served as team captain for the second consecutive campaign, starting all thirteen games at left offensive tackle…Helped the team average 385.1 yards per game…The Wolverines amassed 1,251 of their 2,144 yards on the ground over Long's left tackle position, as he registered 119 knockdowns, including 18 touchdown-resulting blocks…Allowed only one quarterback sack on 423 pass plays and was penalized just once, finishing with an 87.85% grade for blocking consistency…Also recorded one solo tackle. All-American, started all 13 games at left tackle in '06. Missed time w/ankle injury. Played in final five games and started four games at left tackle in '05. All-Big Ten second team in '04. Did not see game action in '03.

Only one sack on 423 pass plays. What more do you want?
There's no perfect LT...only great ones...and he's the Dolphins best and only chance with the first pick....of course we could get lucky and find a trading partner and trade down...then what....select the next best player...there's risk in every player. We have to finally take care of the LT position....without that I don't care who the QB will be for the Dolphins...he won't have the time to make plays...he'll be running for his life as they have since Webb left.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Lemme tell you something, professionally: if you can solve a specific problem and at the same time you solve other problems, that's the course of action you take every time. There's nothing that says we have to take Long OR ELSE, and there are several other *very* qualified candidates who are equally as capable of playing LT. If you don't think Clady or Otah are among those (or Williams or Collins) are capable, you need to come up with something remotely approaching facts.

Then again, allow me to do the work for you again.

Clady's blurb, right from your http://www.nfldraftscout.com site.

2007: Became just the second BSU player to earn All-American honors since the team entered the Division 1-A ranks in 1996, joining running back Ian Johnson (29006 by Sports Illustrated)…Became the first Bronco since 1994 (defensive end Joe O'Brian) to garner All-American recognition from the AFCA…Unanimous All-Western Athletic Conference first-team choice…Member of the Outland Trophy and Lombardi Award Watch Lists…Started all thirteen games at the demanding left offensive tackle position…With the team emphasizing the aerial attack more often in 2007, the running attack ranks only 33rd in the nation (184.92 ypg), but the passing game improved from 52nd nationally in 2006 (206.46 ypg) to 23rd in 2007 (282.46 ypg)…The Broncos also placed 12th in the nation in total offense (467.38 ypg) and fourth in scoring (42.38 ppg)…Clady was charged with six penalties (five false starts, one holding), including four vs. Washington, and allowed 3.5 sacks for losses of 23 yards, but the opposition saw him produce 122 knockdowns, 21 touchdown-resulting blocks and eight blocks downfield to finish with an 85.77% grade for blocking consistency…Graded at least 90% in five contests. Named second-team All-America by SI.com…Named first-team All-WAC…Started all 13 games at left tackle in '06. Named first-team Freshman All-America by ESPN.com, second-team Freshman All-America by Rivals.com and CollegeFootballNews.com and third-team Freshman All-America by The Sporting News...Started 11 of Boise State’s 13 games at right tackle in '05. Redshirted in '04.

Otah: 2007: All-Big East Conference first-team selection…Recipient of the team's Ed Conway Award, given to the Panthers' Most Improved Player…Started all twelve games at the demanding left offensive tackle, helping the offense average 141.4 yards on the ground and 319.5 yards in total offense per game…Delivered 101 knockdowns, with thirteen resulting in touchdowns, as he graded 82.0% for blocking consistency…Had five of his blocks down field and was penalized twice…Saw his main coverage assignments register 8.5 quarter-back sacks and four pressures on 811 offensive snaps. Started all 12 games at left offensive tackle as a first-year JUCO transfer in '06. Considered one of the nation's top junior-college offensive line prospects, two-year starter at offensive tackle at Valley Forge Military Academy's two-year college, named Most Valuable Player of the Seaboard Conference, two-time first team All-Seaboard Conference, led Valley Forge to two conference co-championships.

Williams: 2007: Started all twelve contests at left tackle, receiving the top blocking grade for consistency (85.67%) of any down lineman in the SEC, as he produced 102 knockdowns/key blocks, including twelve that resulted in touchdowns while allowing only one quarterback sack and one pressure on 836 offensive snaps…Was one of the major reasons that the Commodores averaged 326.6 yards per game in total offense, leading an offensive line that allowed only seventeen sacks for losses totaling 109 yards. Developed into the Commodores' top offensive lineman and one of the premier tackles in the Southeastern Conference… League coaches tabbed Williams as a postseason second team All-SEC recipient in '06. Earned nine consecutive starts at left guard, though he played just as frequently at left tackle in '05. Participated as practice squad offensive tackle in '04. Redshirted in '03.

Collins: 2007: Consensus All-Big Twelve Conference first-team selection…Named a finalist for the Outland Trophy (nation's top lineman)…Saw action in twelve games, starting eleven contests at left offensive tackle…Sat out the first series of the Toledo clash due to a disciplinary issue and did not play vs. Iowa State due to a right ankle sprain…Registered 108 knockdowns with fifteen touchdown-resulting blocks for an offense that averaged 479.8 yards per game, including 291.0 yards passing…Was penalized twice (once each vs. Missouri and Virginia Tech) and allowed six sacks for losses of 41 yards and three quarterback pressures on 476 pass plays…Finished with an 83.25% grade for blocking consistency.

Doesn't look too shabby, now does it. Indeed, the fact that there are a lot of good tackles in the draft makes it more imperative that we pick up a special, special player in Dorsey or Chris Long at the top of the draft and solidify the offensive line with one of our later picks. Any of the 4 other linemen I've listed above will be able to do the job, and I'm betting that at least 2 are available at 32 (if we don't trade down).
 
Jake Long is not even the best tackle in this draft. In fact, he is not even the second best. To make matters worse, he is not even a left tackle.

Stats are so misleading. Long will struggle at the next level to anchor against strong defensive linemen and kick out against fast defensive linemen. There is no way Miami would draft Long having looked at the tape. I refuse to believe they are that incompetent.

According to whom? He has the most experience playing at LT...he played at a top rated school...he only gave up one sack in 423 pass plays...geez.
 
There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Lemme tell you something, professionally: if you can solve a specific problem and at the same time you solve other problems, that's the course of action you take every time. There's nothing that says we have to take Long OR ELSE, and there are several other *very* qualified candidates who are equally as capable of playing LT. If you don't think Clady or Otah are among those (or Williams or Collins) are capable, you need to come up with something remotely approaching facts.

Then again, allow me to do the work for you again.

Clady's blurb, right from your http://www.nfldraftscout.com site.

2007: Became just the second BSU player to earn All-American honors since the team entered the Division 1-A ranks in 1996, joining running back Ian Johnson (29006 by Sports Illustrated)…Became the first Bronco since 1994 (defensive end Joe O'Brian) to garner All-American recognition from the AFCA…Unanimous All-Western Athletic Conference first-team choice…Member of the Outland Trophy and Lombardi Award Watch Lists…Started all thirteen games at the demanding left offensive tackle position…With the team emphasizing the aerial attack more often in 2007, the running attack ranks only 33rd in the nation (184.92 ypg), but the passing game improved from 52nd nationally in 2006 (206.46 ypg) to 23rd in 2007 (282.46 ypg)…The Broncos also placed 12th in the nation in total offense (467.38 ypg) and fourth in scoring (42.38 ppg)…Clady was charged with six penalties (five false starts, one holding), including four vs. Washington, and allowed 3.5 sacks for losses of 23 yards, but the opposition saw him produce 122 knockdowns, 21 touchdown-resulting blocks and eight blocks downfield to finish with an 85.77% grade for blocking consistency…Graded at least 90% in five contests. Named second-team All-America by SI.com…Named first-team All-WAC…Started all 13 games at left tackle in '06. Named first-team Freshman All-America by ESPN.com, second-team Freshman All-America by Rivals.com and CollegeFootballNews.com and third-team Freshman All-America by The Sporting News...Started 11 of Boise State’s 13 games at right tackle in '05. Redshirted in '04.

Otah: 2007: All-Big East Conference first-team selection…Recipient of the team's Ed Conway Award, given to the Panthers' Most Improved Player…Started all twelve games at the demanding left offensive tackle, helping the offense average 141.4 yards on the ground and 319.5 yards in total offense per game…Delivered 101 knockdowns, with thirteen resulting in touchdowns, as he graded 82.0% for blocking consistency…Had five of his blocks down field and was penalized twice…Saw his main coverage assignments register 8.5 quarter-back sacks and four pressures on 811 offensive snaps. Started all 12 games at left offensive tackle as a first-year JUCO transfer in '06. Considered one of the nation's top junior-college offensive line prospects, two-year starter at offensive tackle at Valley Forge Military Academy's two-year college, named Most Valuable Player of the Seaboard Conference, two-time first team All-Seaboard Conference, led Valley Forge to two conference co-championships.

Williams: 2007: Started all twelve contests at left tackle, receiving the top blocking grade for consistency (85.67%) of any down lineman in the SEC, as he produced 102 knockdowns/key blocks, including twelve that resulted in touchdowns while allowing only one quarterback sack and one pressure on 836 offensive snaps…Was one of the major reasons that the Commodores averaged 326.6 yards per game in total offense, leading an offensive line that allowed only seventeen sacks for losses totaling 109 yards. Developed into the Commodores' top offensive lineman and one of the premier tackles in the Southeastern Conference… League coaches tabbed Williams as a postseason second team All-SEC recipient in '06. Earned nine consecutive starts at left guard, though he played just as frequently at left tackle in '05. Participated as practice squad offensive tackle in '04. Redshirted in '03.

Collins: 2007: Consensus All-Big Twelve Conference first-team selection…Named a finalist for the Outland Trophy (nation's top lineman)…Saw action in twelve games, starting eleven contests at left offensive tackle…Sat out the first series of the Toledo clash due to a disciplinary issue and did not play vs. Iowa State due to a right ankle sprain…Registered 108 knockdowns with fifteen touchdown-resulting blocks for an offense that averaged 479.8 yards per game, including 291.0 yards passing…Was penalized twice (once each vs. Missouri and Virginia Tech) and allowed six sacks for losses of 41 yards and three quarterback pressures on 476 pass plays…Finished with an 83.25% grade for blocking consistency.

Doesn't look too shabby, now does it. Indeed, the fact that there are a lot of good tackles in the draft makes it more imperative that we pick up a special, special player in Dorsey or Chris Long at the top of the draft and solidify the offensive line with one of our later picks. Any of the 4 other linemen I've listed above will be able to do the job, and I'm betting that at least 2 are available at 32 (if we don't trade down).

Only if Dorsey or Long fit's the Dolphins defense, so far All I have read that neither may not. All of those tackles gave up more sacks than J. Long...I'll stick with the guy that has the better record...has more experience at LT...Thanks.
 
According to my eyes.

You are certainly within your right to disagree. That is what makes things fun. But I do think you should go beyond the use of stats and where a man played and address the man's skill set. I think he has many holes in his game and would love to debate that.

Further, I am concerned that the argument you are using for why he is a top flight tackle is the same argument an individual could use who would be arguing for Danny Weurffel as a top pick. There is a disconnect there and I am not sure you realize it.


Great stats and great universities do not always a great pro make.
 
According to my eyes.

You are certainly within your right to disagree. That is what makes things fun. But I do think you should go beyond the use of stats and where a man played and address the man's skill set. I think he has many holes in his game and would love to debate that.

Further, I am concerned that the argument you are using for why he is a top flight tackle is the same argument an individual could use who would be arguing for Danny Weurffel as a top pick. There is a disconnect there and I am not sure you realize it.


Great stats and great universities do not always a great pro make.

Thats why they have the combine...so we can all see with our eye's. Yes...for the most part...the better players go to the better schools.
 
That is my point exactly. If you trust your eyes at the combine then you will be deceived. No doubt about it. You need to trust the tape. How did a guy play against Illinois, or Ohio State, or Florida. When you view it from that angle and watch play in and play out I think you will be disappointed.

On Saturdays is how a player will be graded by the smart teams. That said, Long will run a good forty, but that does not make him a left tackle.
 
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