Miami Dolphins’ current view of Tua Tagovailoa and Justin Herbert might surprise you

[DPhinz_DPhinz]

So, please poke holes in this as I'm trying to learn more about Herbert. To me, he didn't kill it at Oregon. They played mediocre defenses and he put up at best decent numbers. If he's such a top tier QB why wasn't he just slaying defenses in the particularly weak Pac 10? I want to view him as an alternate if we goof up getting Tua but to me, the case he made in a soft division, isn't as strong as I would like. Again, please poke all the holes you like and help me get to where you are regarding your appreciation of him.

I'm no Herbert fan, but I will defend a position. A position that basically states that without a #1 WR and his top target (TE) out for much of the season, Herbert showed up (3-1) against the likes of Auburn (28th in total defense), Washington (35th in total defense), Utah (2nd in total defense), and Wisconsin (4th in total defense)...all top 50 defenses. If you add in Cal (65th nationally in total defense), Az St. (67th), Nevada (75th), USC (78th), and Stanford (93rd) it's not a solid narrative that he faced bad defenses this year.

Herbert has shown that he can play against defenses designed to stop him...because he was the focal point of the offense. I wouldn't be happy with him at 5, neither would I be sad...I'd would be cautiously optimistic.

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/22

 

[Fin-Loco]

I'm no Herbert fan, but I will defend a position. A position that basically states that without a #1 WR and his top target (TE) out for much of the season, Herbert showed up (3-1) against the likes of Auburn (28th in total defense), Washington (35th in total defense), Utah (2nd in total defense), and Wisconsin (4th in total defense)...all top 50 defenses. If you add in Cal (65th nationally in total defense), Az St. (67th), Nevada (75th), USC (78th), and Stanford (93rd) it's not a solid narrative that he faced bad defenses this year.

Herbert has shown that he can play against defenses designed to stop him...because he was the focal point of the offense. I wouldn't be happy with him at 5, neither would I be sad...I'd would be cautiously optimistic.

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/22

Good points. However, it's tough to quantify what those teams would be ranked if they were in the NFL. To me, if he isn't tearing defenses north of #10, he might struggle in NFL. So, I guess to really properly predict how he might do, we should really tear apart the Utah and Wisconsin games. Against Wisconsin he went 14/20 0 Tds, 1 INT, 2 Sacks, Completion percentage of 70% and QBR of 80%. In that same game, he ran for 3 Tds against #4 Defense.

Against Utah #2 Defense, he threw 14/26 for 193 yds O INT and 1 TD with a completion % of 53.8% and a QBR of 72.6%. In that game he ran 7 times for 20 yds no Tds. Hmmmm. Ok, I'm getting a better picture here.

How does Herbert fit into the system Gailey has used in the past?

 

[DPhinz_DPhinz]

Good points. However, it's tough to quantify what those teams would be ranked if they were in the NFL. To me, if he isn't tearing defenses north of #10, he might struggle in NFL. So, I guess to really properly predict how he might do, we should really tear apart the Utah and Wisconsin games. Against Wisconsin he went 14/20 0 Tds, 1 INT, 2 Sacks, Completion percentage of 70% and QBR of 80%. In that same game, he ran for 3 Tds against #4 Defense.

Against Utah #2 Defense, he threw 14/26 for 193 yds O INT and 1 TD with a completion % of 53.8% and a QBR of 72.6%. In that game he ran 7 times for 20 yds no Tds. Hmmmm. Ok, I'm getting a better picture here.

How does Herbert fit into the system Gailey has used in the past?

What about the Auburn game, where he faced several defenders who will be on a roster in the NFL playing?

 

[Fin-Loco]

What about the Auburn game, where he faced several defenders who will be on a roster in the NFL playing?

They are rated #28 Defense, so I don't see how they have so many fantastic players on defense. Didn't look. Trying to only focus on the top Defenses he played.

 

[Fin-Loco]

How does Herbert fit into the system Gailey has used in the past?

 

[DPhinz_DPhinz]

They are rated #28 Defense, so I don't see how they have so many fantastic players on defense. Didn't look. Trying to only focus on the top Defenses he played.

You have to look at the offenses that defense played. That defense is SOLID.

 

[DPhinz_DPhinz]

How does Herbert fit into the system Gailey has used in the past?

From what I've read, Gailey's offense is tailored to his personnel. Mostly passing, no power concepts.

Who knows what Herbert can do. He might have been hamstrung by his coaches who wanted to reduce turnovers and allow their defense to be a part of the game.

 

[Fin-Loco]

From what I've read, Gailey's offense is tailored to his personnel. Mostly passing, no power concepts.

Who knows what Herbert can do. He might have been hamstrung by his coaches who wanted to reduce turnovers and allow their defense to be a part of the game.

Thanks. If we botch getting Tua, we'll find out on Herbert pretty quickly.

 

[mwestberry]

As stated … other than his offensive line he really didn't have the skill position players that some of the other schools had … DC's had to game plan how to beat the QB without much worry from anyone else … many of them failed to stop him … seems like he did the best he could with the tools he had while changing HC's and learning new systems in 3 of his 4 years ...

We will see how well that works at the next level …

 

[dnespins]

There is no comparison between the injury prone Tua of the last two years (surgeries) and (nicks & bruises) of normal QB play.

thank you. calling tua's injuries nicks and bruises is absurd.

 

[Travis34]

thank you. calling tua's injuries nicks and bruises is absurd.

Well I wasnt exactly referring to him on that, but true i didnt really make that clear.. anyways Herbert had a broken collarbone among other ‘nicks’ ... not a big deal he’s out there breaking bones?

 

[Rev Kev]

He had two elective surgeries for sprained ankles. Those surgeries make high ankle sprains less likely. In my eyes, those surgeries are a net plus. So, I'll say again, you have one major injury that should be of concern. He has cleared every hurdle medically so far with the hip. If that keeps heading in the right direction and doctors believe that he is at no further risk of reinjuring the hip no team will be scared off by those other minor injuries.

Shush

 

[Rev Kev]

Well I wasnt exactly referring to him on that, but true i didnt really make that clear.. anyways Herbert had a broken collarbone among other ‘nicks’ ... not a big deal he’s out there breaking bones?

Not just the clear break he missed time within games and had shoulder concerns while at Oregon

 

[dnespins]

Well I wasnt exactly referring to him on that, but true i didnt really make that clear.. anyways Herbert had a broken collarbone among other ‘nicks’ ... not a big deal he’s out there breaking bones?

my problem with tua is the significant injuries keep happening. 4 surgeries on 4 separate injuries in the last 2 years is way more concerning than the burrow/herbert injuries.

 

[Travis34]

my problem with tua is the significant injuries keep happening. 4 surgeries on 4 separate injuries in the last 2 years is way more concerning than the burrow/herbert injuries.

It is more concerning, absolutely. Mainly the hip though. Ankle sprains are a huge deal to you? And you have read by now surely that those were elective surgeries to strengthen the ankle.... soooooo yeahhhh.... a knee sprain too? Players get hurt. Broken hand could happen easily as well

Don’t misconstrue what I’m saying as Tua’s injury is no big deal but you have to at least acknowledge other guys have been hurt too.