Miami Dolphins Move Toward New Philosophy, And It Will Be Painful

[J. David Wannyheimer]

The Colts have tanked twice for the #1 pick in their history. In 2011 I thought it was actually a straight up tank job. There's no other explanation for deciding that Curtis Painter (lol) was the guy to roll with in 2011 and then at the last second (???) on the eve of the season, sign the corpse of Kerry Collins to run a complex offense cold turkey. Jim Caldwell, lol. That offense wound up being like historically bad.

And I'm sure they don't regret doing it that time, either.

 

[39wildman]

And why do you think we can just easily get the right coach and QB.

We won't, and in 3 more years we'll be right in this same spot.

the dolphins knew thill17 was not answer. they didn't try get better qb in draft. they will be more qb coming into nfl. we just got pick right guy. well we will find out in 3 yr. take chance keep try don't be scare.

 

[Michael Scott]

Won't be painful at all. The only way it's painful is if we suck and our young guys show little to nothing. As long as there's growth I'm good.

I fully support tanking. Tua is worth it just like Luck was when we ****ed that up to "be competitive"

 

[Digital]

Dig..Find your opinion interesting and if you are correct in your judgement of Bridgewater of not meeting the quality level as sufficient I have to say I agree with you. I don't know a hell of a lot and have not seem much of him. Just usual reports in which though some conflicting most see him worth the risk. Now I say to myself hmmm what do we have to move on with Luke Falk or a free agent QB in which Bridgewater and Foles seem to be at the top from the overall consensus.

At a minimum would not be surprised by our new coach spending some thought on this possibility. Cause again it maybe a bit asking to much for all the things needed to fall into place to get that QB we dream about.. Be nice if Falk turned into a huge surprise...

Thanks. Yeah, most of personnel is a projection without knowing the psyche, future influences, or circumstances the player will face. But in the end its all about evaluating based on reasonable extrapolation of the data we have. Occasionally there will be a QB like Rich Gannon or Vinny Testaverde who blossom late, but for every one of those guys there are literally dozens of guys who don't blossom late.

 

[Digital]

Nobody tanks on purpose, except for a team or two, like the famous Colts' Suck for Luck. You get rid of more expensive, veteran players and go with younger ones and naturally that often means you're not as talented and you're going to lose more.

But not here. Like post #2 well said, our talent lies with the younger players. Get rid of the veterans and we don't actually lose that much. Provided, as hoops said, we find a QB, our record probably won't even suffer.

If we are forced to go with an Osweiller/Sanchez/McCown kind of guy, on the other hand, then we will lose a lot. But that'll only happen if we can't draft the right QB.

Coaches rarely tank. Owners tank all the time, they just can't admit to doing it. Players give up on seasons and give up on coaches, it happens every year. It happened with the Dolphins at the end of this past year. The Raiders are doing it now. Gruden has a 10 year contract, he's tanking hard to get good draft picks and totally rebuild. He may tank next year as well. He knows he gets a new lease on life once he gets to Las Vegas, so the lame duck year(s) are the perfect time to tank so he can build a consistent winner. That's why he traded Khalil Mack and Amari Cooper. He is tanking. But most coaches get fired if they tank, so they rarely do it. Guys like Bowles in New York. The owners wanted to tank, Bowles didn't. Rarely do coaches have the confidence in their position like Jimmy Johnson did when he tanked with the Cowboys his first year with his buddy who threw out Tom Landry and installed Johnson as coach, or Gruden does with the Raiders and an insane 10 year contract and two lame duck years in Oakland.

I think Ross is listening to someone on the outside. Those voices are probably telling him its time to blow it up, tank, and get a new QB next season. If that is true, he will subtly tell his next coach that he is not concerned with the first year's record, because he wants to lay the foundations for a consistently winning team. Owner's say things like that when they want to tank, and listening to Ross's presser with Grier, I kinda got the feeling that was the sort of thing he was suggesting. Who knows, maybe he's not tanking, but I kinda think Ross is.

 

[hoops]

Patriots do more with scheme over talent on d than any other team in football. I guess you could bank on that.

Good luck.

That wouldnt be an example id reference

 

[39wildman]

Coaches rarely tank. Owners tank all the time, they just can't admit to doing it. Players give up on seasons and give up on coaches, it happens every year. It happened with the Dolphins at the end of this past year. The Raiders are doing it now. Gruden has a 10 year contract, he's tanking hard to get good draft picks and totally rebuild. He may tank next year as well. He knows he gets a new lease on life once he gets to Las Vegas, so the lame duck year(s) are the perfect time to tank so he can build a consistent winner. That's why he traded Khalil Mack and Amari Cooper. He is tanking. But most coaches get fired if they tank, so they rarely do it. Guys like Bowles in New York. The owners wanted to tank, Bowles didn't. Rarely do coaches have the confidence in their position like Jimmy Johnson did when he tanked with the Cowboys his first year with his buddy who threw out Tom Landry and installed Johnson as coach, or Gruden does with the Raiders and an insane 10 year contract and two lame duck years in Oakland.

I think Ross is listening to someone on the outside. Those voices are probably telling him its time to blow it up, tank, and get a new QB next season. If that is true, he will subtly tell his next coach that he is not concerned with the first year's record, because he wants to lay the foundations for a consistently winning team. Owner's say things like that when they want to tank, and listening to Ross's presser with Grier, I kinda got the feeling that was the sort of thing he was suggesting. Who knows, maybe he's not tanking, but I kinda think Ross is.

with k.c, lac and Denver in that division gruden may get fired before he see resulted just like Jackson in Cleveland.

 

[Digital]

with k.c, lac and Denver in that division gruden may get fired before he see resulted just like Jackson in Cleveland.

Good point, I think Jackson tried to tank as well, but his team got too used to losing and couldn't come out of the funk. By the time he got his QB, it was too late. He couldn't turn that team around instantly, too many people expecting to lose and unwilling to work to change it. Then he made an enemy of Mayfield, so when Mayfield finally got his chance, it was too late for Jackson.

But teams wax and wane. Gruden can build a team by the time they get to Las Vegas. It's a tough division, but every year 40% of the playoff teams change, so I don't think he's too worried at the moment. He is trying to build a team that can challenge for the Super Bowl, so he can't really be too worried about tough competition.

 

[where's th'fish]

Coaches rarely tank. Owners tank all the time, they just can't admit to doing it. Players give up on seasons and give up on coaches, it happens every year. It happened with the Dolphins at the end of this past year. The Raiders are doing it now. Gruden has a 10 year contract, he's tanking hard to get good draft picks and totally rebuild. He may tank next year as well. He knows he gets a new lease on life once he gets to Las Vegas, so the lame duck year(s) are the perfect time to tank so he can build a consistent winner. That's why he traded Khalil Mack and Amari Cooper. He is tanking. But most coaches get fired if they tank, so they rarely do it. Guys like Bowles in New York. The owners wanted to tank, Bowles didn't. Rarely do coaches have the confidence in their position like Jimmy Johnson did when he tanked with the Cowboys his first year with his buddy who threw out Tom Landry and installed Johnson as coach, or Gruden does with the Raiders and an insane 10 year contract and two lame duck years in Oakland.

I think Ross is listening to someone on the outside. Those voices are probably telling him its time to blow it up, tank, and get a new QB next season. If that is true, he will subtly tell his next coach that he is not concerned with the first year's record, because he wants to lay the foundations for a consistently winning team. Owner's say things like that when they want to tank, and listening to Ross's presser with Grier, I kinda got the feeling that was the sort of thing he was suggesting. Who knows, maybe he's not tanking, but I kinda think Ross is.

I wonder if this is semantics? A new coach in a bad team in a rebuild will probably lead to a higher pick, but when you say an owner is tanking I think of an owner intentionally picking a bad coach/GM in order to lose and gain a few top picks. That seems like a very risky proposition, although then again, who knows.

 

[itsofficial]

This better be a true rebuild total up and down and not some half azzed measures like previous regimes by plugging and playing. If it is a true rebuild I’m willing to give them 3-5 years tops.

What makes it a true rebuild? We're a very young team and need to keep the few talented players we do have. We don't have experienced players with high salaries that anyone would want. With the right people in charge and a solid direction we'll be fine.

 

[Digital]

I wonder if this is semantics? A new coach in a bad team in a rebuild will probably lead to a higher pick, but when you say an owner is tanking I think of an owner intentionally picking a bad coach/GM in order to lose and gain a few top picks. That seems like a very risky proposition, although then again, who knows.

When I say owners tank, I don't mean they hire bad coaches intentionally. Usually what they do is make it harder for the current coach to succeed and undermine what they are doing, so all of the bad things are blamed on the outgoing coach, then when the new coach comes in, the new coach has no baggage and can benefit from the resources he needs to rebuild without high expectations. So, owners appoint interim coaches, or let coaches play out the last year of their contract, but take power away from them. The players see this, and know the coach has no stability and power, so it does effectively undermine the coach. Rare coaches get their players to play for them anyway. Hope that helps explain what I meant when I said owner's tank.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

It is scary to use the stadium patchwork as an example of a rousing success.

We will be lapped and lapped again, after a short-sighted decision like that.

Maybe Armando likes it because I've read the press accommodations are much improved.

But I guess by Dolphins standards it is a success. It is like a 9-7 stadium 6th seed stadium. When I visited Foxboro in October I was again reminded of how well designed that Patriot Place complex is. It has room to grow and in fact they were making improvements while I was there. Destination for families all year long. Meanwhile our patched stadium just sits there alongside Walmart, and hosting an occasional event.

* Our personnel is a disaster for a 3-4. McMillan could play inside and be equally mediocre as now. But none of the other linebackers fit. Kiko would be dodging blockers and Baker would be shoved backwards by them.

Taylor could play 3-4 defensive end but he wouldn't be any type of a pass rush threat. Quarterbacks could totally relax and ignore that side. Godchaux simply wouldn't be patient enough at 3-4 end. He loves to shed. On running plays at end he'd be guessing one way or another instead of playing head up responsibility. Once the tendency became known he'd be easy to take advantage of.

I can't think of an era in which our defensive personnel fit the 3-4 worse than right now

 

[Danny]

It is scary to use the stadium patchwork as an example of a rousing success.

We will be lapped and lapped again, after a short-sighted decision like that.

Maybe Armando likes it because I've read the press accommodations are much improved.

But I guess by Dolphins standards it is a success. It is like a 9-7 stadium 6th seed stadium. When I visited Foxboro in October I was again reminded of how well designed that Patriot Place complex is. It has room to grow and in fact they were making improvements while I was there. Destination for families all year long. Meanwhile our patched stadium just sits there alongside Walmart, and hosting an occasional event.

* Our personnel is a disaster for a 3-4. McMillan could play inside and be equally mediocre as now. But none of the other linebackers fit. Kiko would be dodging blockers and Baker would be shoved backwards by them.

Taylor could play 3-4 defensive end but he wouldn't be any type of a pass rush threat. Quarterbacks could totally relax and ignore that side. Godchaux simply wouldn't be patient enough at 3-4 end. He loves to shed. On running plays at end he'd be guessing one way or another instead of playing head up responsibility. Once the tendency became known he'd be easy to take advantage of.

I can't think of an era in which our defensive personnel fit the 3-4 worse than right now

I didn't read this whole thread but why are you talking about the 3-4 defense? Which of the HC candidates would want to run a 3-4?

 

[andyahs]

I didn't read this whole thread but why are you talking about the 3-4 defense? Which of the HC candidates would want to run a 3-4?

What is he taking about period? No one is using the stadium rebuild as rousing team success.

 

[johngarryvo]

46ys with no championships??... we Dolfans.. we already know PAIN... we been cooked that fool’s breakfast