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New rumor and fins switch to the 4-3

I STILL think that Mario Williams is a pipe dream.

The only difference is, with Enduro revealing what he's revealed, I know now that Jeff Ireland does not view Mario Williams to be a pipe dream. I'm comfortable with that. I think Jeff Ireland is wrong. Just like I thought Jeff Ireland was wrong for thinking Carson Palmer to be attainable. I was comfortable disagreeing with Ireland about that last year, and I was right.

I don't think Mario Williams will get the franchise tag. However, I DO think the Dolphins will be outbid. Just like they were outbid for Ray Edwards.
 
i like avril and think from a money stand point he's the better investment personally but he also if he hits free agency is gonna get a boat load of loot...so do you overpay avril to get him and tick wake off in the process or do you take a chance on williams health and really drop jaw dropping money to attain his services and hope he doesn't finish 2012 on ir...

if its me i go with avril and save a decent amount of money in the process...i don't think avrils a $13 mil a year guy in free agency like i do williams...i do think he's a $10 mil per guy though given the market

and if miami plans on getting either of these guys for ray edwards money they mght as well just not get involved...they'll be trumped like there's no tomorrow
 
Well, if Enduro is right, one thing we can say is that if we have interest in Mario Williams, we'll probably have interest in every one of these pass rushers on down the line until we get to one we can afford. In other words, an interest in Mario Williams indicates an interest in Cliff Avril and John Abraham just like our interest in Carson Palmer indicated an interest in Kyle Orton.
 
the team that should overpay and take a chance on either of these guys is the patriots...they got a ton of money its a major need grow a pair and go out and get one of these guys by blowing away the competition...heck that team and getting to play with brady sells itself to some extent anyways...

seems like avril would really fit in nicely to me in new england...

as for john abraham buyer beware long term contract there...buyer beware
 
finally why do i keep coming away with the thought that mario williams has spent an awful lot of time the last 3 years or so not playin...that he's been injured an awful lot...

cliff avril to my knowledge is the exact opposite...he's there every sunday
 
Whoever thinks Mario is getting tagged for $22 mill is insane.
 
SR 7 said:
Whoever thinks Mario is getting tagged for $22 mill is insane.
Click to expand...

is that # correct...cause i was thinking the tag on a de/pass rusher was in the $17 mil range...and i don't think its insane that someone would tag a edge rusher for that amount...
 
Mario Williams took nearly 1000 snaps in 2008, nearly 1000 snaps in 2009, nearly 800 snaps in 2010 and really this year was the first one he missed a significant amount of time.

I can't really comment on Mario Williams versus Cliff Avril until I know what the money is for the two. I know that two years ago when there was a rumor Miami might trade for Avril, I took a look at him (he had not broken out yet at all and was actually kind of down in the dumps) and I saw a great player that was a lot better than everyone thought, just as I did later with Antwan Barnes.

I see the same with Mark Anderson. The Patriots should focus on keeping Anderson for a bargain rather than writing big checks for Avril. Anderson is a LITTLE rougher around the edges than Cliff Avril, but not much. Basically the same player.

There's no more reason to put a buyer beware tag on John Abraham than there is any 34 year old. The age at this point is a pretty obvious issue. There's no mystery there. You'll have to manage his snap counts a little. But the fact of the matter is, for the snaps that he played last year, I'm not sure I saw a better Defensive End or Pass Rusher amongs all the available free agents. Not Robert Mathis, not even Mario Williams, not Cliff Avril or Mark Anderson.
 
I don't think the Texans will tag Mario Williams. It's simple, they got great production out of Connor Barwin and Brooks Reed. That duo seems to fit that defense very well, so why pay Mario Williams insane money to keep him?
 
if its me and i'm the texans provided i have no other real fish to fry this offseason i tag williams and see what he looks like this year coming off the pec and then next year i decide if i want to invest in him long term...i just think you're letting go a year early on him...but if that $22 mil tag # is correct that definitely makes it a more difficult decision...i just don't think they're gonna let williams walk this offseason for free...thats just me though

for some reason i was thinking williams finshed another year on ir with a quad injury or something but i must be mistaken...

as for mark anderson i seem to think he's like 33 years old or something and personally i'd rather invest in avril who i think unlike andersons production is not somewhat a product of playing for beli...just like i think ninko isn't the same player anywhere else...most those pats players when they leave new england add up to nothing...i don't see anderson as a 3 down player either...

my choice would be avril who i think brings effort on every down over all of em...

abraham within 2 years i think you're regretting that contract if its what i think he's looking for money wise...
 
ckparrothead said:
Mario Williams took nearly 1000 snaps in 2008, nearly 1000 snaps in 2009, nearly 800 snaps in 2010 and really this year was the first one he missed a significant amount of time.

I can't really comment on Mario Williams versus Cliff Avril until I know what the money is for the two. I know that two years ago when there was a rumor Miami might trade for Avril, I took a look at him (he had not broken out yet at all and was actually kind of down in the dumps) and I saw a great player that was a lot better than everyone thought, just as I did later with Antwan Barnes.

I see the same with Mark Anderson. The Patriots should focus on keeping Anderson for a bargain rather than writing big checks for Avril. Anderson is a LITTLE rougher around the edges than Cliff Avril, but not much. Basically the same player.

There's no more reason to put a buyer beware tag on John Abraham than there is any 34 year old. The age at this point is a pretty obvious issue. There's no mystery there. You'll have to manage his snap counts a little. But the fact of the matter is, for the snaps that he played last year, I'm not sure I saw a better Defensive End or Pass Rusher amongs all the available free agents. Not Robert Mathis, not even Mario Williams, not Cliff Avril or Mark Anderson.
Click to expand...

What I wonder is this. Mario Williams is 6'6", 291 lbs. Granted, he's a great player, but you have to wonder if the reason Jeff wants to go after him is because he has their "prototypical size" for a defensive end. It is probably a sign that even though Miami may be switching to a 4-3, they may still not be willing to go after these undersized edge rushers to play on the ends. At 6'5", almost 6'6" and 285 lbs or so, you have to believe that Quinton Coples is going to be very high on Miami's list. You also have to wonder if they envision a Von Miller type of linebacker role for Cameron Wake instead of playing him down as a defensive end.
 
hooshoops said:
if its me and i'm the texans provided i have no other real fish to fry this offseason i tag williams and see what he looks like this year coming off the pec and then next year i decide if i want to invest in him long term...i just think you're letting go a year early on him...but if that $22 mil tag # is correct that definitely makes it a more difficult decision...i just don't think they're gonna let williams walk this offseason for free...thats just me though

for some reason i was thinking williams finshed another year on ir with a quad injury or something but i must be mistaken...

as for mark anderson i seem to think he's like 33 years old or something and personally i'd rather invest in avril who i think unlike andersons production is not somewhat a product of playing for beli...just like i think ninko isn't the same player anywhere else...most those pats players when they leave new england add up to nothing...i don't see anderson as a 3 down player either...

my choice would be avril who i think brings effort on every down over all of em...

abraham within 2 years i think you're regretting that contract if its what i think he's looking for money wise...
Click to expand...

Mark Anderson is 28/29. You're thinking of Andre Carter who's 33.

Anderson also had 12 sacks his rookie year with the Bears and had a decent year as situational OLB with the Texans in 2010.
 
My sources tell me that this cat read this off of the stuff I read a week ago. C'mon man!!!!!
 
KB21 said:
What I wonder is this. Mario Williams is 6'6", 291 lbs. Granted, he's a great player, but you have to wonder if the reason Jeff wants to go after him is because he has their "prototypical size" for a defensive end. It is probably a sign that even though Miami may be switching to a 4-3, they may still not be willing to go after these undersized edge rushers to play on the ends. At 6'5", almost 6'6" and 285 lbs or so, you have to believe that Quinton Coples is going to be very high on Miami's list. You also have to wonder if they envision a Von Miller type of linebacker role for Cameron Wake instead of playing him down as a defensive end.
Click to expand...

if you make wake a von miller like lb roll then you still have to fill 2 needs at 43 de...just seems like a lot of needs to fill if you lose both langford and solia and then move wake to 43 lb where with his hips and cod i think he can be easily exploited

i'd have to think if its 43 coples is very high on our board...
 
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