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lemme ask you something slimm...i understand and agree that jj watt tested as well pretty much as mario williams did when he came out which in its own right makes the kid an absolute freak...but do you think that jj watt on tape was as dominant a force as mario williams was at nc state right before he came out??? i realize we are talkin about a guy who projected as a 4-3 end vs a 5 tech but i still think williams showed more from a football standpoint on the field...the devastating hands i can see that with watt but from a pure explosive quality on tape i think williams was far superior
 
Mario Williams was only dominating at times when he was at NC State. That was the whole rap on him. He had like a great second half of the season and everyone was wondering if he was just doing it for the paycheck.
 
Mr. Magoo said:
Mario Williams was only dominating at times when he was at NC State. That was the whole rap on him. He had like a great second half of the season and everyone was wondering if he was just doing it for the paycheck.
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right but he flashed jaw dropping talents dominant a force was probably the wrong word choice i agree ...does jj watt flash jaw dropping get out of your seat talent to you???
 
hooshoops said:
lemme ask you something slimm...i understand and agree that jj watt tested as well pretty much as mario williams did when he came out which in its own right makes the kid an absolute freak...but do you think that jj watt on tape was as dominant a force as mario williams was at nc state right before he came out??? i realize we are talkin about a guy who projected as a 4-3 end vs a 5 tech but i still think williams showed more from a football standpoint on the field...the devastating hands i can see that with watt but from a pure explosive quality on tape i think williams was far superior
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Sure Mario was a little more explosive, but my point wasn't that J.J. Watt is EXACTLY as good of a prospect as Mario Williams. Rather, that they are comparable... which I think would tend to catch generally anyone by surprise.

J.J. Watt has absolutely dominated games against top competition to the point that at looked like there was three of him out there on the field. That's just a fact... I mean it is. It's there. On film.

I recall Jim Tressel saying he's never seen or faced a defensive lineman anything like J.J. Watt before... and that's saying something right there..
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Sure Mario was a little more explosive, but my point wasn't that J.J. Watt is EXACTLY as good of a prospect as Mario Williams. Rather, that they are comparable... which I think would tend to catch generally anyone by surprise.

J.J. Watt has absolutely dominated games against top competition to the point that at looked like there was three of him out there on the field. That's just a fact... I mean it is. It's there. On film.

I recall Jim Tressel saying he's never seen or faced a defensive lineman anything like J.J. Watt before... and that's saying something right there..
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alright...your sending me back to get another look at watt...
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Sure Mario was a little more explosive, but my point wasn't that J.J. Watt is EXACTLY as good of a prospect as Mario Williams. Rather, that they are comparable... which I think would tend to catch generally anyone by surprise.

J.J. Watt has absolutely dominated games against top competition to the point that at looked like there was three of him out there on the field. That's just a fact... I mean it is. It's there. On film.

I recall Jim Tressel saying he's never seen or faced a defensive lineman anything like J.J. Watt before... and that's saying something right there..
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I love JJ Watt, If Miami didnt draft Oddrick last year I would be pulling for him...Lets hope the Pats dont end up with him...
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Sure Mario was a little more explosive, but my point wasn't that J.J. Watt is EXACTLY as good of a prospect as Mario Williams. Rather, that they are comparable... which I think would tend to catch generally anyone by surprise.

J.J. Watt has absolutely dominated games against top competition to the point that at looked like there was three of him out there on the field. That's just a fact... I mean it is. It's there. On film.

I recall Jim Tressel saying he's never seen or faced a defensive lineman anything like J.J. Watt before... and that's saying something right there..
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I'm late to this discussion I realize but in terms of looking at Mario Williams one of the things that always strikes me about him is he's the kind of guy that got away with dominating lower levels of competition in college, and not really being consistent...and yet he has been a more than solid pro. He's got a sh-t ton of physical ability.

J.J. Watt has made acolytes of some scouts and decision-makers. The ones that buy him, REALLY buy him. I don't know that he'll fall very far in this Draft that's for sure.
 
not to change the subject but i went to watch some more mikel leshoure last night and let me tell you guys corey luiget that kid is legit...he was all over the place...looks like a heck of a 3 tech to me
 
hooshoops said:
right but he flashed jaw dropping talents dominant a force was probably the wrong word choice i agree ...does jj watt flash jaw dropping get out of your seat talent to you???
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As Slimm says, he's not as explosive as Williams. I think he could probably play on the left side of a 4-3 if he wanted to, just like he did in college. But he has a chance to be a Richard Seymour type player as a 3-4 end. Slimm's right about how dominating he is. If you look at the bowl game against TCU, it's pretty clear the Horned Frogs only thought there was one guy on defense they had to worry about, and that was JJ Watt. They ran like 10 or 12 zone option plays at him in the first half alone to try to keep him from wrecking the game.

At the end of the day, though, I do expect Cam Jordan to be drafted higher. I think he's a better pass rusher and teams obviously covet that. Jordan I think could go as high as #3, to the Bills.
 
hooshoops said:
not to change the subject but i went to watch some more mikel leshoure last night and let me tell you guys corey luiget that kid is legit...he was all over the place...looks like a heck of a 3 tech to me
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Hah, I see what you did there.

And yeah, he really is very good. But I do LOVE Phil Taylor and Kenrick Ellis. I've never really been in love with Nick Fairley to be honest. I mean, heading into 2010 I reviewed a lot of 2009 tape and did scouting reports and I had an extremely crude color coding for guys I liked a little bit, or more to the point I could see OTHER people liking them a lot more than I do (yellow), and then guys that I knew I'd be a fan of one way or another (green). I had Nick Fairley as a yellow. I thought he was pretty good, I could see that other people were going to like him a lot, but that I probably wasn't.

I love Marcel Dareus, Kenrick Ellis, Phil Taylor and Corey Liuget. I have every single one of those guys rated above Nick Fairley. I have Fairley down with Marvin Austin.
 
As for Cam Jordan, I think the Bills' pick at #3 is between Von Miller and Cam Jordan. They're both very Buddy Nix. Wouldn't be surprised with either.
 
Mr. Magoo said:
As Slimm says, he's not as explosive as Williams. I think he could probably play on the left side of a 4-3 if he wanted to, just like he did in college. But he has a chance to be a Richard Seymour type player as a 3-4 end. Slimm's right about how dominating he is. If you look at the bowl game against TCU, it's pretty clear the Horned Frogs only thought there was one guy on defense they had to worry about, and that was JJ Watt. They ran like 10 or 12 zone option plays at him in the first half alone to try to keep him from wrecking the game.

At the end of the day, though, I do expect Cam Jordan to be drafted higher. I think he's a better pass rusher and teams obviously covet that. Jordan I think could go as high as #3, to the Bills.
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Exactly... this is a guy who played from a 2-point stance at times while being 6'6", 290 pounds... he can play LDE in a 4-3, which is terrific for that size.

Here's some game film of the TCU game for you hoops...[video=youtube;7GAmfFFAzAM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GAmfFFAzAM[/video]




And another dominating performance against Ohio St....[video=youtube;bNTwvuZ3jMs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNTwvuZ3jMs[/video]
 
ckparrothead said:
Hah, I see what you did there.

And yeah, he really is very good. But I do LOVE Phil Taylor and Kenrick Ellis. I've never really been in love with Nick Fairley to be honest. I mean, heading into 2010 I reviewed a lot of 2009 tape and did scouting reports and I had an extremely crude color coding for guys I liked a little bit, or more to the point I could see OTHER people liking them a lot more than I do (yellow), and then guys that I knew I'd be a fan of one way or another (green). I had Nick Fairley as a yellow. I thought he was pretty good, I could see that other people were going to like him a lot, but that I probably wasn't.

I love Marcel Dareus, Kenrick Ellis, Phil Taylor and Corey Liuget. I have every single one of those guys rated above Nick Fairley. I have Fairley down with Marvin Austin.
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i'm not in love with fairley either...the tapes not consistent for me and neither is the hand use but i saw some really sweet feet at his pro day...i do love phil taylor and kenrick ellis
 
Notice the hit at 3:46 of the first video against TCU... that's my Jay Valai guy that I told CK to get a look at back prior to the season..

Kid is a missile in pads... a Bob Sanders type safety. A little on the small size, but hits like a 250 pounder and closes on a ball carrier extremely quick. One of my favorite sleepers...
 
I think when you put Marcel Dareus and Nick Fairley side by side on the tape, people would be surprised to notice that Marcel is progressing through his technique and moving faster than Nick Fairley.
 
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