OFFENSIVE LINE IS OUR #1 WEAKNESS | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

OFFENSIVE LINE IS OUR #1 WEAKNESS

if I draft an OL in the first round , I expect that player to be the lead anchor of that line.
Miami keeps spending 1st round picks on o-linemen, but it's a waste because the line doesn't improve with them. The last drafted OL who was physically dominating was Jake Long. How is it that Philbin had 1st round picks on his o-line, yet Tannehill was sacked more than any other QB during his first 4 years? How is it that Gase had 1st round picks on his o-line, yet they were probably the worst in the league at converting 3rd or 4th and short on the ground? I wouldn't be surprised if Gase's o-line also gave up the most tackles for losses. Pouncey, James, Tunsil; they did nothing to help the o-line. Tunsil's only value was the picks they got by trading him.

I keep saying this over and over... Miami needs to find new people to recognize and evaluate o-line talent. And, IMO, they need to go old-school on the o-line. They need guys like (a healthy) Jake Long and Incognito, not JAGs like James, or busts like Jonathan Martin and Dallas Thomas. Incognito went to the Pro Bowl with Buffalo after leaving Miami, and not one o-lineman drafted since then has been worthy of carrying his jockstrap... including the so-called "elite" Tunsil! It seems like other teams can build decent o-lines with guys from the 2nd through 5th rounds, yet Miami uses multiple 1st round picks and still has one of the worst lines in the league. There's a problem in the Front Office, and continuing to waste 1st round picks on OL isn't going to fix it.
 
When you build through the draft this is how you roll. You bring in some young, talented guys, develop them, give them snaps together and you've got an o-line. It sounds like the OP wanted us to make a splash in FA for an o-lineman. Some may not love Fluker but he's strong as hell and he can play RT if Liam Eichenberg isn't ready to start on opening day. The reason for a big improvement from Jackson is that he was coming off a medical procedure where he gave his sister a life saving bone marrow transplant. He had that rather huge issue plus all the COVID 19 problems. He'll be a better player this season, he'll be stronger, quicker and he'll have had a pre season to come into the season in rock solid shape. He is a high quality guy with an exciting future and is still only 21. Putting Hunt and Kindley at the guard positions is a great move imo. I feel like everybody is where they should be playing. Skura is a wild card to me so I'm hoping we didn't screw up by not getting Andrews or resigning Karass. Skura got benched by the Ravens for having the yips, I hope he's over them. Depth pieces are Dieter, Fluker and Davis. On paper the o-line is fixed and on it's way to becoming a team strength. We need to see it on the field, we are asking for a lot of things to go right! I really hope we can stay healthy on the o-line, that would be a good start. The o-line improves with every snap they have together so patience may be required early on but I hope we come out smoking!!
 
They looked slow footed, especially towards the end of the season, when at times it looked like a jailbreak. Jackson played admirably, but, towards the end of the season; he was giving up way too many pressures. Kindley while he showed his power and girth by throwing players around early, looked exhausted by seasons end. So I concer, the line could become a worrisome unit, if they don't step it up.
 
Potentially, our line is very good.

Are they good now? We'll know by week 3 or 4.

What they are not is established, and that seems to be what is bugging some people.

Potentially they CAN be very good. Last year showed talent but not near enough in reality compared with the quality NFL OL players.

3-4 weeks could be to late. Why go into the season waiting to find out when we had the power and ammo to make it more solid ......... Head scratching....and then what do we do (see 4-5 season ago realize 4 gms in and had no way to improve at that point)

Ya basing a much improved team with playoff and even SB expectations from a line not established....

" Not established " your words and shown inconsistency last season, my words. I agree but see more concern than closing my eyes on why they are still not established and seeing just as reasonable the jump not happening enough than those thinking its an easy given...Its NOT

QB RB WR all critically tied to the play of the OL..... yet FH doesn't even see a potential BIG Problem///

They will just blame Tua with OL cluelessness.................
 
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Miami keeps spending 1st round picks on o-linemen, but it's a waste because the line doesn't improve with them. The last drafted OL who was physically dominating was Jake Long. How is it that Philbin had 1st round picks on his o-line, yet Tannehill was sacked more than any other QB during his first 4 years? How is it that Gase had 1st round picks on his o-line, yet they were probably the worst in the league at converting 3rd or 4th and short on the ground? I wouldn't be surprised if Gase's o-line also gave up the most tackles for losses. Pouncey, James, Tunsil; they did nothing to help the o-line. Tunsil's only value was the picks they got by trading him.

I keep saying this over and over... Miami needs to find new people to recognize and evaluate o-line talent. And, IMO, they need to go old-school on the o-line. They need guys like (a healthy) Jake Long and Incognito, not JAGs like James, or busts like Jonathan Martin and Dallas Thomas. Incognito went to the Pro Bowl with Buffalo after leaving Miami, and not one o-lineman drafted since then has been worthy of carrying his jockstrap... including the so-called "elite" Tunsil! It seems like other teams can build decent o-lines with guys from the 2nd through 5th rounds, yet Miami uses multiple 1st round picks and still has one of the worst lines in the league. There's a problem in the Front Office, and continuing to waste 1st round picks on OL isn't going to fix it.
Grier did bring in new ppl on the eval side, a couple good, well respected guys.

I understand ppl's frustration with the past failures, but it isn't fair to blame McKenzie and Allen for those failures.
 
I think we have to admit that that drafting has been better since Flo got here and started helping with the draft picks. McKenzie and Allen are also well respected in the NFL. Jackson, Kindley, Hunt and Eich are since Flo. I love all 4 players.
 
Potentially they CAN be very good. Last year showed talent but not near enough in reality compared with the quality NFL OL players.

3-4 weeks could be to late. Why go into the season waiting to find out when we had the power and ammo to make it more solid ......... Head scratching....and then what do we do (see 4-5 season ago realize 4 gms in and had no way to improve at that point)

Ya basing a much improved team with playoff and even SB expectations from a line not established....

" Not established " your words and shown inconsistency last season, my words. I agree but see more concern than closing my eyes on why they are still not established and seeing just as reasonable the jump not happening enough than those thinking its an easy given...Its NOT

QB RB WR all critically tied to the play of the OL..... yet FH doesn't even see a potential BIG Problem///

They will just blame Tua with OL cluelessness.................
Awhile back, one of our wittier commentators predicted that if Tua fails, the line would be blamed.

I see you are early.
 
So I’m straight on this, we have not done enough for the OL. I might be wrong, but are we not the only team to have a first, two second, and a fourth round picks used on the OL in the last two drafts. Or did the NFL make a rule change that you have to have 10 OL in on every play.
 
Pretty much every time I come in here it's, Tua this Tua that, did he wake up on the wrong side of bed, RB issues, do we need upgrade?, WR corp. of real play makers. Team better be improved over last year, Playoffs...." PLAYOFFS ??', Superbowl. Another defensive free agent ?

Wake up people.
Our biggest problem at this point that seems to go under the table but can possibly be the biggest weakness which if it doesn't turn around and successfully jump through a significant amount of hoops which again most are not even putting in discussions, We're Screwed again ! ( don't understand the lack of insight of this team for a legit OL for the last 20 years) were some beauties were there for the taking !!!!!!!!!!!

Its like people are expecting 3 of last years rookies who showed some ups and downs, to all take that significant step (all 3), New Rookie RT not even having a down in the NFL already there. Skura the Karras upgrade having old 2018 abilities or Dieter winning position, also never playing center (NFL)

H E L L O People. This could and IMO IS the #1 weakness of our 2021 Dolphins. AND if all the 1/2 doz.+ upgrades don't happen, the results realistically could be disasters. And the start of many again putting the blame on Tua....

Fans and public should be screaming at the top of their lungs to get the FO to make this upgrade and less dependent on so much improvement to appear by pretty much everyone on the OL.....

I know those truly aware of the realistic values a NFL team needs to be successful but for those who don't, it's not a long shot to tell you to be prepared for a shock.
Now it is true that all the essential improvements by all 5 OL can happen but truthfully no one including the FO should like the odds.

Yes Tua mention but this post is not about Tua so keep him out of it. It's about the Offensive line and will it be what we fantasize or reality is improving but still not much better than average this year.

Importance of OL lets ask possibly the best young QB, out there Mahones and how his OL weakness screwed his timing, play and success....
Great points @cuzinvinny .

I really like some of the things we've done along the OL, and am encouraged by others .... but we're NOT there yet. Still, there is hope.

Here's the hopeful things I see:

1. Austin Jackson proved he could play

When healthy last year, he was very good, and at LT that's a tough thing to do, so this bodes well for the future. As the youngest OL in his class, he really should be a rookie this year, and he's already shown some great flashes. IMHO, we've found our starting LT already, so that's one spot that is solid.

2. Liam Eichenberg is extremely sound
Mr. Einchredible is one of those golden domers (Notre Dame, not because he's blonde) who is extremely technically sound. An OL prodigy he's not going to make many mistakes, but he will provide solid play protecting Tua's blindside for years to come. He could be another David Bahktiari (sp?) or Andrew Whitworth type OT for us.

3. Hunt is a Guard
Robert Hunt is a mountain of a man, with long arms and some athleticism, but he simply doesn't have the feet or technique to be a blindside OT starter. He received a LOT of help last year, and frankly, we need to spread that help around, not just use it as a Hunt crutch. But as a guard his true mauling nature comes out, and this kid can become very good. IMHO, he has always been a RG and this is the right place for him to excel. He had a promising rookie season making a huge jump from a small school, but this year we should be able to see his prowess in the run game start to shine.

4. Depth
Typically we have a lot of injuries across the OL, which is kinda odd since we're a warm weather team playing on grass ... but I guess our team just isn't very tough. Now with Jesse Davis being able to provide solid play at both OT spots and both OG spots, we can maintain our OL quality. Having Kindley and Hunt battling it out for one OG spot means we have a solid backup if someone gets injured. It's impossible to have complete coverage in his salary cap era, but we have a solid group and some depth.

Here's the worrisome things I see:

5. Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Skura?

Kudos to Skura for returning from a serious injury so quickly. I don't hold his poor performance against him because he shouldn't have even been on the field. Last year he wasn't very good, and got benched. Here's hoping Skura can now return to his ability pre-injury and become a good prospect. But I'm worried that he may never be able to reach that level of play again. We'll see, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Given our continuing fiasco of FA management, either he'll suck and we will cut him, or he'll be great and we'll refuse to pay him ... so either way I see him as a 1-year rental. Oh well, let's hope we get a decent one year. Back to the drafting board I guess.

6. No LG
I'm a big Solomon Kindley fan, and yes, the LG is Tua's front side guard ... but IMHO he just doesn't have the lateral quickness or fluidity passing off stunts and twists against those extra-speedy guys who populate that side of the defense. Kindley is a RG and definitely a phone-booth style player. Jesse Davis may be our best LG player right now, but nobody on our roster is really perfect for the position. I can see Liam Eichenberg fixing that hole if he doesn't work out at RT, but I'd rather have his level of technician at RT protecting Tua's blindside.

At the end of the day, if things progress normally, we should have our LT, RT and RG spots filled and solid depth. That means we'll still be looking for a C and LG in next year's draft. Oh well, the never-ending OL rebuild continues.
 
I like to poke fun at the "I want it now, Daddy" caucus that populates this forum.

"Buy it for me, now... right now Daddy," they squeal indignantly. "I don't want to wait. I don't care if we can't afford it. I don't care if we'd have to restructure half of our team to sign that guy... I want him right NOW! We neeeeeed that guy."

You know... like this.
 
Awhile back, one of our wittier commentators predicted that if Tua fails, the line would be blamed.

I see you are early.

LOL

I see you as one of the few posters that general have good sense and solid fan knowledge of the game.

In this particular area you more than most I expect to have sufficient understanding on the real value of the OL .Surprisingly believe you are not even close to reasonable. Much as many of those wittier commentators

Love Tua think NOW he is not going to be a problem. IMO Tua will not be the failure but the OL might be the failure having little to do with Tua and possibly poor RB play also inportant for Tua's success or even WR being limited...

Its like the OL isn't even important. Tua is not going to be the problem and IMO he's the best thing to happen for us since Marino..
Sorry you see nothing..... and thats can be the problem.....
 
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They looked slow footed, especially towards the end of the season, when at times it looked like a jailbreak. Jackson played admirably, but, towards the end of the season; he was giving up way too many pressures. Kindley while he showed his power and girth by throwing players around early, looked exhausted by seasons end. So I concer, the line could become a worrisome unit, if they don't step it up.
All great observations. Jackson wasn't the same after the injury and I think that was because he was playing hurt. Understandable after his previous two offseasons, but I'm expecting him to blossom this year, in what should be his rookie season age-wise.

I've heard conflicting reports about Kindley's weight, but the last pic I saw he looked slim! Guess that one will be a wait and see, but he's got to get into shape to give us his best and win a starting spot.

Skura worries me too. Not sure he'll get back to his pre-injury level.
 
LOL

I see you as one of the few posters that general have good sense and solid fan knowledge of the game.

In this particular area you more than most I expect to not have sufficient undrertstanding on the real value of the OL believe you are not even close to reasonable.

Love Tua think NOW he is not going to be a problem. IMO Tua will not be the failure but the OL might be the failure having little to do with Tua or maybe poor RB play or WR being limited...

Its like the OL isn't even important. Tua is not going to be the problem and IMO he's the best thing to happen for us since Marino..
Sorry you see nothing..... and thats can be the problem.....
The O Line is HUGELY important, but the cap exists.

So, your best long term bet will always be to build through the draft with some targeted bargain hunting.

Yes, I thought we'd try harder to sign Andrews, but ultimately, Center is one of those cheaper positions, and the team evidently thought that it was unwise to spend a large % of the cap on a Center. I'm not sure that I don't agree with that.

I'm VERY high on Jackson and Hunt. High on Eichenberg, and think Kindley should be jag, at least.

Honestly, I'm less convinced about Tua, and am not sure that he's ready to lead us deeply into the playoffs, so I'm willing to wait a year before spending big on a lineman. If Tua convinces me that he's good enough, then we have a LOT of cap next year to sign whoever we want.
 
Throwing big money at FAs is what they have been doing for decades, generally unsuccessfully. OLs are usually built over time. That requires development and patience, something most fans don't get or lack. I get the impression that this coaching staff and FO has a better process than we have had in the past. IMO getting young players with the traits you want, providing coaches that focus on teaching and giving them time to develop and gel, is the best way to go about building an OL. It's not immediate. There will be inconsistencies and fans will complain, but I do think it's the best process.
 
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