PFF Quarterback Rankings: 2021 | Page 7 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

PFF Quarterback Rankings: 2021

Vaark said:
You are so fast to buy into unqualified trolling of Cowherd but quick to discount qualified opinions of the skilled QB in the same room...especially when it comes to specialness

There's no doubt that if Fitz was equivocal or mute in his praise, you'd be harping on it as gospel. You've got as much credibility on this board as nyjunc!
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Junc would have a good post from time to time. If he wasn’t trolling or being a Jets homer at the time.
 
Being from an older different generation, I love what Flo did to Tua last yr . I love more how Tua responded. Flo does not care he wants to win every week. If you are not doing your job Flo does not care about your feelings he is focused on how to win. Flo showed Tua what he needed to do to improve to be a winner. As a human, you can either accept and learn or say this is not fair. Tua has seemed to accept the challenge and worked very hard to make himself better. At a much lesser level in high school, I was big and strong and could dominate physically at DT. I was coming off a major injury, lost big toe , yet I was benched late in a game as a Junior because the team was beating me. The coach put in this Senior that I was better than, but he started making plays and had a key stop on the way to our victory. I was so pissed, however, the next day I realized I had a lot of work to get my job back. It took me two weeks. I have always outworked every person that is a threat to my job. Tua seems to have the same feelings and he has much better physical skills to start with
 
superphin said:
I could see why you would rank a “generational talent” like Lawrence ahead of Tua but justin fields? I wish I could drink on the job like they do at pff.
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Lol. I have a little sip every now and then right before I leave work.
 
gregorygrant83 said:
I think Tua did what you want rookies to do, show some promise, but also show enough that you can clearly identify the areas that improvement is needed. All of this while not hurting your team in the win-loss area. Everything else is just noise. Even with the great season Herbert had, if Herbert doesn't improve his weaker areas and just stays at the level he was as a rookie that would be a disappointment. It's all about how players refine their game sharpening their plus skills and eliminating or reducing their problem areas. If Tua does that over his first two or three seasons he'll be fine.

I still can't stress enough the impact no otas or training camp has on a player like Tua, a player who doesn't beat you just on superior athletic skills. Imagine if Trevor Lawrence, who is a better athlete than Tua, opted to holdout and miss offseason work outs, all of training camp and then signed a week before the season starts. People would say he and his agent blew his rookie season by putting himself so far behind 8-ball. Last year's rookie class was put in that boat due to the covid situation.
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All of what you are saying is true. The fact remains however, that Justin Herbert who was drafted AFTER Tua looks like a better QB. And that's the problem.
 
andyahs said:
Herbert wasn't coming off of major hip surgery.

Why do posters discount this?
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Okay since we are going to make excuses. Herbert didn't have Jaylen Waddle, Jerry Jeudy, Henry Ruggs, Devonte Smith, Najee Harris, at skill positions while in college to boost his draft stock like Tua did.
 
phinking said:
Okay since we are going to make excuses. Herbert didn't have Jaylen Waddle, Jerry Jeudy, Henry Ruggs, Devonte Smith, Najee Harris, at skill positions while in college to boost his draft stock like Tua did.
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How is major surgery to a hip an excuse?

It's reality.
 
phinking said:
All of what you are saying is true. The fact remains however, that Justin Herbert who was drafted AFTER Tua looks like a better QB. And that's the problem.
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Only a problem if you let it. I say why judge your progress based on someone else. Just take care of you and let the other chips fall where they fall. Herbert had a great rookie season. He also had an offense that had previously been ran by Phillip Rivers at a high level and he just had to step in and do his job. We knew that if whoever was drafted by the Chargers came in and performed their job well they had the offensive weaopns and passing scheme to succeed. I'm not saying Tua in San Diego would have had the same level of success, but he may have looked better than he did in Miami and I don't think he played poorly for the Dolphins. In Miami it was going to be more of a work in progress regardless of which rookie qb landed here. The thing is Herbert had the better year one, no debate there, however what happens in years two and three is still a mystery. And we all know careers mean more than rookie seasons. At this point we've just ran the first 25 yards of a mile long race, there's a lot more to see.
 
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Very good point here...

gregorygrant83 said:
Only a problem if you let it. I say why judge your progress based on someone else. Just take care of you and let the other chips fall where they fall. Herbert had a great rookie season. Also had an offense that had previously been ran by Phillip Rivers at a high level and he just had step in and do his job. We knew that if whoever was drafted by the Chargers came in and performed their job well they had the offensive weaopns and passing scheme to succeed. I'm not saying Tua in San Diego would have had the same level of success, but he may have looked better than he did in Miami and I don't think he played poorly for the Dolphins. In Miami it was going to be more of a work in progress regardless of which rookie qb landed here. The thing is Herbert had the better year one, no debate there, however what happend in years two and three is still a mystery. And we all know careers mean more than rookie seasons. At this point we've just ran the first 25 yards of a mile long race, there's a lot more to see.
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gregorygrant83 said:
Only a problem if you let it. I say why judge your progress based on someone else. Just take care of you and let the other chips fall where they fall. Herbert had a great rookie season. Also had an offense that had previously been ran by Phillip Rivers at a high level and he just had step in and do his job. We knew that if whoever was drafted by the Chargers came in and performed their job well they had the offensive weaopns and passing scheme to succeed. I'm not saying Tua in San Diego would have had the same level of success, but he may have looked better than he did in Miami and I don't think he played poorly for the Dolphins. In Miami it was going to be more of a work in progress regardless of which rookie qb landed here. The thing is Herbert had the better year one, no debate there, however what happend in years two and three is still a mystery. And we all know careers mean more than rookie seasons. At this point we've just ran the first 25 yards of a mile long race, there's a lot more to see.
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Dang your whole post is spot on bro, and are you a writer or something?
 
phinking said:
All of what you are saying is true. The fact remains however, that Justin Herbert who was drafted AFTER Tua looks like a better QB. And that's the problem.
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Let's hope in time it will prove to be a Trubisky Mahomes outcome
 
I have a lot of issues with this, so I'll state my opinion, my issues, and link why I have those opinions.

My Opinion
Tua had a difficult adjustment, and while many people called me a hater last year, I think in retrospect they can see I was trying to be realistic with our expectations. He WAS injured and rehabbing that hip for part of the season and nursing it for the entire season. It robbed him of velocity--something he never had much of from an NFL point of view. So, he became scared to zip in those intermediate middle throws for fear of being picked off. The deep throws he could still heave and make sure it was either caught or overthrown. The short stuff he could fit in there. But that intermediate stuff over the middle took an arm to zing it in there, and he was scared to do that. He's a top notch decision maker, so he was cautious, which is understandable. But, it made him a Checkdown Charlie and his YPA was very low, leading to low productivity. The pandemic further shortened his snaps early and made it very tough for him to get experience learning, so he wasn't really 'ready' when he got his chance. When a kid goes from having WR's with acres of separation to having to adjust to lazering into tight windows ... his head is going to spin and his confidence will be tested ... and it showed. Henry Ruggs III, Jalen Waddle, Jerry Jeudy, Devonta Smith, etc., these guys are monsters at making college CB's look BAD and getting WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDE OPEN. Throwing into NFL windows was new, and Tua wasn't given enough snaps to learn before the season, so he had to learn on the fly. The most important thing was that he stayed healthy. This year, he can do everything RIGHT. Lots of reps, lots of practice, some zip on the ball, confidence in himself and from his teammates, WR's who spend the time to gain chemistry with him before the season even begins, and a playbook retooled around him and that he knows before day 1. Tua will make a massive sophomore jump.

My Issues with this PFF Ranking
1. Any NFL ranking should be of only NFL players.
Rankings are retrospective. Having guys like Jalen Hurts in there who played some last year is fair. Having guys like Trevor Lawrence and Zack Wilson and all these 2021 rookies in there is just plain wrong. That makes this a power ranking .... AKA an opinion/preference list, not a real ranking.

2. Stats Rankings - QBR
Here is a link to a QBR ranking (sort with HIGHEST QBR on top) QBR - Sort HIGHEST to Lowest
While QBR isn't the only valid view of ranking QB's or possibly even the best, it is significant to see that the top half of the QB's in the league all rank in the top 16, where they should be. The bottom half are guys with limited ability or colossally bad season like Wentz. It is notable that the top 5 were 1. Aaron Rodgers, 2. Patrick Mahomes, 3. Josh Allen, 4. Ryan Tannehill, and 5. Ryan Fitzpatrick. Others included 9. Tom Brady and 26. Tua. Using that metric of productivity ... Tua's struggles were evident.

3. Stat Rankings - Quarterback Rating
Here is a link to Quarterback Ratings
The other major ranking of QB's statistically is the Quarterback Rating, and yes, this was the earlier of the two, and QBR attempted to steal the name and caused confusion. But, this is the more traditional rating used. Here we see #3 Tannehill, #6 Josh Allen, #17 Ryan Fitzpatrick, with #9 Tom Brady and #26 Tua. While there is a lot of variance over a small amount of disparity with guys like Tannehill, Allen and Fitzmagic, they all performed well by both metrics. In contrast, we see rock-solid consistency with Brady at 9 and Tua at 26. IMHO, Tua's performance merited 26th best starting QB in the league, but there were more than 32 starters as evinced by both Fitz and Tua making this list.

I've outlined why I beleive last year was tough for Tua, and why I'm expecting a big sophomore jump. I didn't compare Tua to the other 2020 QB's in his class because I think all of them will improve, so they don't make a stable baseline. Tua also was given a game-winning defense and asked to manage games, which he did effectively. When it was needed for him to put the game on his shoulders, he couldn't several times and did a couple times, particularly in the Arizona game when he really rose to the occasion. I didn't even get into the stats I care most about, including YPA, Points Per Drive, Points Per Play, 3rd down efficiency, Efficiency Under Pressure, etc. and why those are so important, but suffice it to say he has room to grow in each of those. If I'm looking at his rookie season only, and ranking him, he's a solid 26th, and nowhere near the middle of the pack. But if I'm looking towards the future, I see Tua being a middle-of-the-road QB in his sophomore season. Please look at those rankings again, beause lots of those middle of the road QB's are routinely called franchise QB's with guys like Kyler Murray, Big Ben, and Lamar Jackson hovering around the middle on one or both of those lists. If Tua can reach that type of performance, we'll be happy with him. I think he can get there.
 
phinking said:
Okay since we are going to make excuses. Herbert didn't have Jaylen Waddle, Jerry Jeudy, Henry Ruggs, Devonte Smith, Najee Harris, at skill positions while in college to boost his draft stock like Tua did.
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Interesting.

But why don't you use that same logic for their rookie season?

Tua didn't have Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Hunter Henry, Austin Ekeler and all pros on his Oline like Herbert did.
 
Nublar7 said:
The fact is though, the player was not bad and the stats (11 touchdowns to 5 interceptions) show that. Not to mention a 6-3 record as a starter.

The constant Tua bashing by the media, other team's fans, etc. is pretty disrespectful. However, I think in the end this will only be a major positive for the Dolphins. Tua obviously has a chip on his shoulder, is working harder than probably any player on the team and will be out to prove his doubters wrong. The thing I find funny is that before he had his hip injury, he was pretty much the consensus #1 overall pick in the 2020 draft and now people act like he never had any talent to begin with. What else will be funny is when come the season and the media start changing their tune and are so surprised at how well Tua is playing in year #2.
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This, this and this. I’m not saying he played well enough to win us a playoff game but as you stated he certainly wasn’t objectively bad. He also had two game winning drives which, again, is not “bad.”
 
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