NorFlaFin
PowerHungryMo'fo
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Playoffs or not... Ireland needs to stay another year.
- Thread starter MartinTheSNAKE
- Start date
Be careful to use this as a measuring stick. Last year the 49rs didn't start a single rookie and did pretty damn well.
In regards to the resources, I'm sure there is a cap healthy plan. It's been shown that our cap looks good for a while.
I think he did. He drafted two guys to go behind grimes and Patterson. Both had a high upside but some issues/injuries. Dallas Thomas should have been ready to play this season, IMO, but for some reason didnt. Dion Jordan should have started but out of nowhere OV became a beast. Got to play the better guy there first, but that rotation is sick. Jenkins is starting to see more action.
To me it seems he drafts guys with high upside but Philbin won't put them on the field until they are 100% ready. React, not think, sort of thing. Look at Clay, OV, and even Nolan Carroll this year. Big steps.
I always believed Ireland got too much flak for his past drafts, and has made many solid moves leading up to this season, but I was really disappointed with the 2013 draft. We had 5 draft picks in the first 3 rounds, traded a starter for additional picks, and we came away with no impact players. In fact, we came away without a single starter, and we have had minimal contributions from our draft picks. With the ammo we had entering the 2013 draft, that's unacceptable imo.
If Ireland doe's get canned, I am in favor of the no GM approach that a few successful teams employ. We can have a Director of Personnel who manages scouting and recommends players - NFL free agents or college prospects - and the coaches can make the final call at the round table.
If Ireland doe's get canned, I am in favor of the no GM approach that a few successful teams employ. We can have a Director of Personnel who manages scouting and recommends players - NFL free agents or college prospects - and the coaches can make the final call at the round table.
JTC111
Viva la resistance!!!
On teams with more talent, rookies have a more difficult time breaking into the lineup. We had holes enough that some rookies should have been able to become starters if our rookie crop was good enough.
I can understand Dion Jordan not cracking the starting lineup because we used our 1st pick in the area we least needed help, but let's look at the next 5 picks:
Jamar Taylor - the opportunity was there but he couldn't crack the starting lineup.
Dalas Thomas - the opportunity was there but he couldn't crack the starting lineup despite the talentless void that has been our O-line.
Will Davis - the opportunity was there but he couldn't crack the starting lineup.
Dion Sims - the opportunity was there but he couldn't hold onto the starting job
Mike Gillislee - the opportunity was there but he couldn't crack the starting lineup.
If any of these guys were even decent picks they'd have cracked the starting lineup.
It is absolutely not a guaranteed thing that firing Ireland means getting rid of the system Tannehill is familiar with. That is a pure assumption, one that seems to be looked at as a fact in this thread.
You've already cancelled out 2008 as not being credited to Ireland, you then state similar to 2009 but then name some players from the draft that you kind of want Ireland to take credit for, then you want to give him credit for 2010 when Parcells was still here as well (people think he was gone in 2010, he was right there next to Jeff and even called Sean Payton in the Dolphins war room after they took Jimmy Graham to congratulate them on a good pick). Let's not forget this draft we once again saw the Parcells/Ireland philosophy of quantity over quality by passing on the likes of Earl Thomas . . . A SEASON AFTER WATCHING GIBRIL WILSON PLAY FREE SAFETY. Why? Because Bill Parcells and Ireland were more focused on getting that 2nd round pick for trading for Brandon Marshall.
I'm not going to analyze the last 3 drafts or free agent signings . . . it's been analyzed to death on this board but understand you can't just pick out a player who has made a play in a game and make that seem like it's a star on Jeff Ireland's resume. Fact is, the man doesn't put enough emphasis on skill positions and put a crapload of resources into the offensive line one of the worst offensive lines in league history statistically. He lucked out on Brent Grimes because the guy was coming off of an injury and he was looking for the best situation to start and Miami was clear because the cupboard was so bare at CB here. What will impress me more about the Brent Grimes pick up is Jeff Ireland resigning him . . . but I'm sure to expect the typical Jeff Ireland lowball. No GM is going to miss on everybody and every GM gets a little lucky.
He single handedly turned a top tier defense at stoping the run into a defense that ranks in the bottom 3rd at stoping the run with his linebacker switch. Phillip Wheeler could be the worst Jeff Ireland signing in his tenure, and THAT SAYS ALOT. Ellerbe isn't good either, just getting overshadowed by Wheeler. He'll have a dilemma on the DLine in the offseason, wonder how he handle's it.
2013 NFL Draft . . . someone else said it but it bears repeating . . . not ONE starter from that draft, a Dion Jordan deflected pass and a Dion Sims TD catch in 15 games. Talk about impact with all those picks. Pat yourself on the back Jeff.
This is a very average team that happens to have a chance at being the best of an average group in a down season in the NFL to sneak out that 6th spot. Jeff had the picks, money and QB inline going into the season and he whiffed on the draft and panicked on Mike Wallace because of the lack of confidence he has in his own ability to draft a skill player. So he gets a guy that certainly stretches the defense but doesn't fit what the QB does best. $12 million a year you better get a glove like fit for your supposed franchise QB.
Look it's fine to be optimistic, and I'm certainly not discounting Ireland returning . . . it is very possible and at this point expected, but I don't see much of a future with him and if you can't foreshadow the future in regards to him and have to see it all play out . . . then I don't know what to tell you. Personally I have strong feelings on how this story will end and I'd rather move on to the next novel.
You've already cancelled out 2008 as not being credited to Ireland, you then state similar to 2009 but then name some players from the draft that you kind of want Ireland to take credit for, then you want to give him credit for 2010 when Parcells was still here as well (people think he was gone in 2010, he was right there next to Jeff and even called Sean Payton in the Dolphins war room after they took Jimmy Graham to congratulate them on a good pick). Let's not forget this draft we once again saw the Parcells/Ireland philosophy of quantity over quality by passing on the likes of Earl Thomas . . . A SEASON AFTER WATCHING GIBRIL WILSON PLAY FREE SAFETY. Why? Because Bill Parcells and Ireland were more focused on getting that 2nd round pick for trading for Brandon Marshall.
I'm not going to analyze the last 3 drafts or free agent signings . . . it's been analyzed to death on this board but understand you can't just pick out a player who has made a play in a game and make that seem like it's a star on Jeff Ireland's resume. Fact is, the man doesn't put enough emphasis on skill positions and put a crapload of resources into the offensive line one of the worst offensive lines in league history statistically. He lucked out on Brent Grimes because the guy was coming off of an injury and he was looking for the best situation to start and Miami was clear because the cupboard was so bare at CB here. What will impress me more about the Brent Grimes pick up is Jeff Ireland resigning him . . . but I'm sure to expect the typical Jeff Ireland lowball. No GM is going to miss on everybody and every GM gets a little lucky.
He single handedly turned a top tier defense at stoping the run into a defense that ranks in the bottom 3rd at stoping the run with his linebacker switch. Phillip Wheeler could be the worst Jeff Ireland signing in his tenure, and THAT SAYS ALOT. Ellerbe isn't good either, just getting overshadowed by Wheeler. He'll have a dilemma on the DLine in the offseason, wonder how he handle's it.
2013 NFL Draft . . . someone else said it but it bears repeating . . . not ONE starter from that draft, a Dion Jordan deflected pass and a Dion Sims TD catch in 15 games. Talk about impact with all those picks. Pat yourself on the back Jeff.
This is a very average team that happens to have a chance at being the best of an average group in a down season in the NFL to sneak out that 6th spot. Jeff had the picks, money and QB inline going into the season and he whiffed on the draft and panicked on Mike Wallace because of the lack of confidence he has in his own ability to draft a skill player. So he gets a guy that certainly stretches the defense but doesn't fit what the QB does best. $12 million a year you better get a glove like fit for your supposed franchise QB.
Look it's fine to be optimistic, and I'm certainly not discounting Ireland returning . . . it is very possible and at this point expected, but I don't see much of a future with him and if you can't foreshadow the future in regards to him and have to see it all play out . . . then I don't know what to tell you. Personally I have strong feelings on how this story will end and I'd rather move on to the next novel.
TannehillRules
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ellerbe sucks
gofins60
Club Member
I want Ross to clean house. But, if I actually had to choose who goes, I'd pick Philbin and his entire coaching staff. IMO, Philbin lives in a fantasy world. He has his perfect little system all mapped out, but the only way it will work is if all of the players are a 100% fit with his system. When things don't go exactly as planned, which is usually the case in the "real world", he's lost. Things may have worked out better for him if he had hired someone other than his pal Sherman.
If Ireland stays, he needs to have an experienced "co-worker" to assist him on draft day; especially in the early rounds! Make it a "GM-by-committee" position with different areas of expertise covered.
I don't get the "blow it all up" idea. We've gotten better, we are in the playoff hunt in week 17. Wait one more year, let these guys play out. Blowing it up every two years if arent where you want us to be is just a recipe for disaster and mediocrity.
nyashfan
For Earth Below
The irony is that Ireland has built the team to defend the pass. That's why the Dolphins are more competitive vs the Patriots and Steelers, but not vs power running teams like the Bills and Panthers. That strategy works fine when your offense is explosive enough to surge to quick leads that force the opponent to play to the strength of your defense, the pass.
So should the Dolphins' draft strategy be to continue to make the offense more explosive? Or should they adapt to becoming a team that is more balanced, that is more efficient at running the ball and stopping the run? That seems to me to be the dilemma, irrespective of who is the GM. I think I'd rather that the Dolphins transition to a power running team that can also stop the run. That's what the Colts are trying to do, and what the Chiefs and Bengals are.
So should the Dolphins' draft strategy be to continue to make the offense more explosive? Or should they adapt to becoming a team that is more balanced, that is more efficient at running the ball and stopping the run? That seems to me to be the dilemma, irrespective of who is the GM. I think I'd rather that the Dolphins transition to a power running team that can also stop the run. That's what the Colts are trying to do, and what the Chiefs and Bengals are.
This team is winning in-spite of the below average GM we have because of coaching. Have you seen the way our O-Line is handled by a good D-Line? Have you seen our running game? Have you watched Wheeler play? Half of this years draft is hurt....he pulled Grimes out of his butt with a typical Ireland "Maybe it will work out" approach. The only reason we had the number of picks we did this last draft is because of his bone head Brandon Marshall fiasco, where we basically gave up two seconds for two 3rd round pics. The guy is below average and the BIGGEST reason why we have been a 6-7 win team since 2009.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I gave you thumbs up. Not because I agree with your argument, but because of the manner in which you expressed it. You're a breath of fresh air.
I think the thumbs up, thumbs down thing became more of a poll on the topic than an appreciation for your post...which is unfortunate, but not surprising.
That's funny. I start an "Ireland's got to go" thread and 7-10 posts in it are pro-Ireland and calling me a troll. This guy starts a pro-Ireland thread and every post is refuting the heck out of OP's premise.
I should've just started this thread and then caledl it a 'troll thread'.
Sorry, OP, but when all you've got to hang your hat on is that you've found some acorns in the late rounds while you've failed year after year in the rounds when superstars come off the board, then you're just not the guy the team needs to ascend to perennial Super Bowl contender.
I know that, in a way, Ireland has us believing that 'we're only 2-3 players away from being a dominant team. Sadly, we're also a couple of lucky breaks away (with Ireland getting lucky on some acorns) from being a 5 win team too, and there's nothing to indicate that Ireland can now acquire those 2-3 players we need to be a great team. Someone needs to draft some special talent, and it's hard to believe that the guy who INSISTED that Johnathan Martin be our left tackle of the future is capable of finding the right guys.
Beyond acquiring player talent, it's hard to believe we have the coaching talent, especially when the job requirement for being the QB coach is pure nepotism. Is the QB coach the guy in Tannehill's ear telling him to stay in the pocket even when it's continually crumbling around him?
It's all a moot point. Ross isn't firing anyone and we just have to hope and pray that Ireland has a 'Rain Man' moment (the good kind, like when he was playing cards) in the draft next year.
I should've just started this thread and then caledl it a 'troll thread'.
Sorry, OP, but when all you've got to hang your hat on is that you've found some acorns in the late rounds while you've failed year after year in the rounds when superstars come off the board, then you're just not the guy the team needs to ascend to perennial Super Bowl contender.
I know that, in a way, Ireland has us believing that 'we're only 2-3 players away from being a dominant team. Sadly, we're also a couple of lucky breaks away (with Ireland getting lucky on some acorns) from being a 5 win team too, and there's nothing to indicate that Ireland can now acquire those 2-3 players we need to be a great team. Someone needs to draft some special talent, and it's hard to believe that the guy who INSISTED that Johnathan Martin be our left tackle of the future is capable of finding the right guys.
Beyond acquiring player talent, it's hard to believe we have the coaching talent, especially when the job requirement for being the QB coach is pure nepotism. Is the QB coach the guy in Tannehill's ear telling him to stay in the pocket even when it's continually crumbling around him?
It's all a moot point. Ross isn't firing anyone and we just have to hope and pray that Ireland has a 'Rain Man' moment (the good kind, like when he was playing cards) in the draft next year.
PhinFan in RI
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every year - 12 teams make the playoffs, and 20 miss them. Every year only 4 teams make it to the championship round, and every year only 1 team wins it all. Many times, a team that was right on the cusp the previous few years wins it all, and then might even miss it the very next year, but stays on the cusp, and makes a run every few years. 90% of those teams remain consistent with personel, coaches, and front office people, esp. those teams with a 2nd year QB who is shaping up to be a real STAR and FRANCHISE player, a QB who needs consistency in all facets of the organization to succeed. The chances of going from having a chance to be one of those lucky 12, and building a franchise QB one year, to making a hire, and having that hire wind up being one of, not only the 12, but the 4 or 2 or 1, is much less, than the chances of that one hire, being one of the lowly 20 who were left out, and setting us back again in the process, by stunting a young and promising QB's growth.
Ryan Tannehill, was what we all wanted FINALLY - a 1st round drafted QB with tons of potential. When your GM and your Coach draft a QB in the 1st round to be "their guy" you let that whole staff ride out and you see what happens. Live or Die. I do not understand why so many people telling "ireland defenders" they "dont know much" simply do not understand the only way forward for this franchise as it is painfully obvious:
Ryan T, and Philbin and Ireland Fail after year 3 - (and i dont mean fail to win the AFC championship, i mean tannehill takes steps back and the team is uncompetitive) you CLEAN HOUSE. b/c at that point you are sure of yourself and you bring a whole new package in with their guys, and give them a run at it. Unfortunatly, what people do not seem to understand, is that once the decision was made to keep ireland, and have him work with philbin, regardless of the fact that ireland was a familiar face, there was a new "regime" in place, including ireland/philbin/Tannehill, and they had 3 years, as a unit to get things done. Ireland was "renewed" so to speak, for another shot with a new philosophy/coach. Ross chose to go with Ireland as the GM in this "regime" and now it needs to ride out.
But, if Ryan T succeeds, than by the very virtue of having a good qb, top 12, you get into the playoffs. And you keep the guys.
What you most certainly do not do, is fire one or the other, and wind up second guessing yourself, half-assing whoever you bring in, handcuffing the coach and the GM etc. Getting rid of ireland without cleaning house of Coach/GM/QB is not going to allow this franchise to step forward. And, right now, the jury is still out on Ryan T, and Joe P. so you let it ride out. If anyone you fire sherman. maybe. But what you really do - is upgrade the OL and see what this kid can do without being sacked for record times and leading the NFL in being on his back.
Ryan Tannehill, was what we all wanted FINALLY - a 1st round drafted QB with tons of potential. When your GM and your Coach draft a QB in the 1st round to be "their guy" you let that whole staff ride out and you see what happens. Live or Die. I do not understand why so many people telling "ireland defenders" they "dont know much" simply do not understand the only way forward for this franchise as it is painfully obvious:
Ryan T, and Philbin and Ireland Fail after year 3 - (and i dont mean fail to win the AFC championship, i mean tannehill takes steps back and the team is uncompetitive) you CLEAN HOUSE. b/c at that point you are sure of yourself and you bring a whole new package in with their guys, and give them a run at it. Unfortunatly, what people do not seem to understand, is that once the decision was made to keep ireland, and have him work with philbin, regardless of the fact that ireland was a familiar face, there was a new "regime" in place, including ireland/philbin/Tannehill, and they had 3 years, as a unit to get things done. Ireland was "renewed" so to speak, for another shot with a new philosophy/coach. Ross chose to go with Ireland as the GM in this "regime" and now it needs to ride out.
But, if Ryan T succeeds, than by the very virtue of having a good qb, top 12, you get into the playoffs. And you keep the guys.
What you most certainly do not do, is fire one or the other, and wind up second guessing yourself, half-assing whoever you bring in, handcuffing the coach and the GM etc. Getting rid of ireland without cleaning house of Coach/GM/QB is not going to allow this franchise to step forward. And, right now, the jury is still out on Ryan T, and Joe P. so you let it ride out. If anyone you fire sherman. maybe. But what you really do - is upgrade the OL and see what this kid can do without being sacked for record times and leading the NFL in being on his back.
nyashfan
For Earth Below
The situation to avoid is the one the Jets find themselves in - namely, a GM who did not bring in his own head coach. The Jets GM can fire Rex Ryan with impunity. He can hire his own coach this year and gets a free pass with respect to his own performance.
Obviously Philbin both gets and deserves a 3rd year. Whether you like Ireland or not, he needs to stay. If/when Ireland goes, the coach needs to join him, unless a new GM is willing to commit to Philbin long-term.
I'd rather make changes at the coordinator positions, at least replacing Sherman. If the OL cannot be fixed in one offseason then the Dolphins need an OC who is willing to move Tannehill around so he doesn't get killed.
If Sherman goes and Ireland/Philbin can draft the right type of offensive and defensive lineman then the team and QB can continue to make strides next season.
Obviously Philbin both gets and deserves a 3rd year. Whether you like Ireland or not, he needs to stay. If/when Ireland goes, the coach needs to join him, unless a new GM is willing to commit to Philbin long-term.
I'd rather make changes at the coordinator positions, at least replacing Sherman. If the OL cannot be fixed in one offseason then the Dolphins need an OC who is willing to move Tannehill around so he doesn't get killed.
If Sherman goes and Ireland/Philbin can draft the right type of offensive and defensive lineman then the team and QB can continue to make strides next season.