Predicting The Dolphins 2018 Win Total | Page 8 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Predicting The Dolphins 2018 Win Total

I think there are two main factors which would contribute to having double digit wins or struggling to reach 8-8. They are key injuries (negative) and the team's cultural change (positive).

First the injuries: every team has them, depends on which position and when they occur. Last year Phins lose their starting qb, starting MLB and probably starting CB before the first regular season game and we never recovered. Houston loses JJ Watt and Watson and end up 4-12. GB loses Rogers and no chance at playoffs. Same with the Colts and Luck. Now the Eagles lose their starting qb week 13, when they were already 11-2. Foles does enough to win 2 out of 3 (like Matt Moore in 2016) and gets the bye week. Struggles in first round of playoffs but still wins. Catches lightning in a bottle and has a great NFC championship game and Super Bowl. Now what happens if Wentz was lost much earlier in the season or in the preseason would the outcome be the same? Maybe...but probably not.

Factor # 2: Cultural Change
Gase has been preaching this since he came here. I think it was after week 4 of 2016 when media was questioning Gase about Tannehill's performance and he continued to support his qb and indicated everyone else don't know what they are doing (I'm paraphrasing). Whether its the receivers running the wrong routes, rb's not hitting the right hole or linemen blocking the wrong guys; Gase was not happy with their performance or effort. In 2017 the offense was again struggling. In a press conference Gase was aggravated that his offense looks like **** and it's been two season's and he still can't run his offense. If anything he had to keep on dumbing it down. So this offseason we gets rid of coaches and players that might not have been buying in or fully committed. The draft and free agency yielded high character and talented players to build on the culture.

I for one can not wait to see Tannehill take the field again after two years in Gase's system. The offense should be improved with Tannehill, Drake as full starter, a real threat at TE, speed at wr and at worse an average offense line. On defense you add talent with Fitzpatrick, McMillan, Quinn and Lippet.....but you do lose Suh which will hurt, but not season ending. How many great DTs are really in the league? I would say most teams don't have them and still survive. So I see no reason why we can not hit double digits wins unless the injury bug hits than it can turn into a **** show real quick.
 
Despite my .500 guess I'm optimistic for better. I think it was Ferret who said this is one of the more difficult years to predict, and I agree. The changes could result in a team that overperforms due to smart play and coaching, or it could blow up in Gase's face and we finish dead last.

I'm optimistic for the former because we've seen Gase get the most out of players before: when he cut Thomas and Turner and when the phins continued to win down the stretch in 2016 despite losing half a dozen starters (yes the schedule was easy but if you lose a lot of starters it's not going to be easy to beat any NFL team).
 
I disagree that the OL is improved. Pouncy played 16 games, was an elite pass protector and running game did well through Drake. Improved TE blocking improves gapping, so any C grades out better. Bookends are the same so that’s a wash. Sitton upgrade at G, but in his 11th season and that’s the decline for OL. If he doesn’t decline then he’ll be an upgrade. Davis is a question mark. Too many question marks than answers to say an upgrade.

From what I’ve seen from Geskicki, I’m not optimistic he’ll be a weapon until 2019. JT was horrendous though so can’t be worse either. They may find using TE to block is more beneficial in running game than an inconsistent first year Gesicki in the passing game. Could go either way IMO.

At best Pouncey has been average as a pass protector, because he graded below average at it last year. Taking his numbers over the periods of health, he has looked average. You may be viewing it somewhat differently because since Tannehill has been here we have had some of the worst OL's in the history of the NFL, with one line being top 10 worst since the NFL started keeping stats on pressures and sacks. True, Pouncey was never the worst part of our phenomenally bad OL's of the past few years, but he has not been good for a long time. Surviving on reputation and flashes of brilliance, but not on recent production.

Plus he is very good at pulling. I'll give you that, he is extremely good at reaching a point on the field (fast) and locating and striking a moving target like a LB. But you can't always pull your center. It's simply not possible. At the point of attack, Pouncey is bad. He is light and ineffective. The stats show that our line was better with Brendel last season than with Pouncey. Pouncey was not elite. No matter how you define it … it wasn't him last year. I'd go back further, but he didn't play enough games to really judge in those relevant years.

If you watch OL play, Pouncey was not the reason Drake had good games. Give credit wherever you choose to give it … but you're not telling the full story if you're claiming Pouncey was the reason for Drake's improved play at the end of the season.

We didn't have good TE play last year, it was very poor. You may not be optimistic about Gesicki, or Smythe, fair enough, but I hope you will watch them in the pre-season and regular season, and evolve your opinion as the season progresses. While our opinions differ, I am confident that you will find both improving and better than we've had over the last two years. Smythe comes in as a better blocker than Dion Sims and second only to Anthony Fasano in recent times. Gesicki is probably going to become the best TE in Dolphins history, with a career something like Jimmy Graham or Travis Kelce … but I fully understand you not expecting that level of play from a rookie TE. Regardless, it will be an immense improvement over guys like Julius "Past it" Thomas, Cameron "Injured" Jordon, or Charles "Two Routes" Clay. Gase's offense is built to feature TE's. We didn't have one, so we force-fed the slot WR, Landry. Now we have a TE who is 7" taller and a lot faster than Landry. The playbook opens up a bit.
 
Yes, but that’s just my opinion.
We agree on that opinion. The Packers tumbled mightily when Rodgers had injuries. The Raiders fell dramatically when Derek Carr struggled with injuries. Even without the poorly performing Peyton Manning the Broncos endured a catastrophic season. The Eagles did just fine when their QB went down, but that is the exception not the rule.

I think what we saw last year was a combo of losing Tannehill and the odd adversities we faced (hurricane dislocating us and stealing our bye week, LAWOLrence Timmons, injury to Raekwon McMillan, ridiculous scheduling having us constantly making Trans-Atlantic or Trans-Continental flights most weeks, oh, and an OL coach doing drugs at the team facility). Was it a 4 game difference? IMHO, easily, yes.

Glad we agree that losing your QB is a hugely devastating event to most teams.
 
At best Pouncey has been average as a pass protector, because he graded below average at it last year. Taking his numbers over the periods of health, he has looked average. You may be viewing it somewhat differently because since Tannehill has been here we have had some of the worst OL's in the history of the NFL, with one line being top 10 worst since the NFL started keeping stats on pressures and sacks. True, Pouncey was never the worst part of our phenomenally bad OL's of the past few years, but he has not been good for a long time. Surviving on reputation and flashes of brilliance, but not on recent production.

Plus he is very good at pulling. I'll give you that, he is extremely good at reaching a point on the field (fast) and locating and striking a moving target like a LB. But you can't always pull your center. It's simply not possible. At the point of attack, Pouncey is bad. He is light and ineffective. The stats show that our line was better with Brendel last season than with Pouncey. Pouncey was not elite. No matter how you define it … it wasn't him last year. I'd go back further, but he didn't play enough games to really judge in those relevant years.

If you watch OL play, Pouncey was not the reason Drake had good games. Give credit wherever you choose to give it … but you're not telling the full story if you're claiming Pouncey was the reason for Drake's improved play at the end of the season.

We didn't have good TE play last year, it was very poor. You may not be optimistic about Gesicki, or Smythe, fair enough, but I hope you will watch them in the pre-season and regular season, and evolve your opinion as the season progresses. While our opinions differ, I am confident that you will find both improving and better than we've had over the last two years. Smythe comes in as a better blocker than Dion Sims and second only to Anthony Fasano in recent times. Gesicki is probably going to become the best TE in Dolphins history, with a career something like Jimmy Graham or Travis Kelce … but I fully understand you not expecting that level of play from a rookie TE. Regardless, it will be an immense improvement over guys like Julius "Past it" Thomas, Cameron "Injured" Jordon, or Charles "Two Routes" Clay. Gase's offense is built to feature TE's. We didn't have one, so we force-fed the slot WR, Landry. Now we have a TE who is 7" taller and a lot faster than Landry. The playbook opens up a bit.
9F2FFE14-2C19-4727-8567-E785BCDFA48F.jpeg

Edit with correct one from PFF

Not going to debate who’s right about Pouncy pass pro. I’ll leave this for your consideration from PFF. Bleacher Report says similar things too.

Regarding Drake, I didn’t give credit to Pouncy for Drake’s success. I’m making the point that Drake made the o-line look better against the run; while adding that the TE poor blocking puts a strain on the o-line gapping.
 
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Not going to debate who’s right about Pouncy pass pro. I’ll leave this for your consideration from PFF. Bleacher Report says similar things too.

Regarding Drake, I didn’t give credit to Pouncy for Drake’s success. I’m making the point that Drake made the o-line look better against the run; while adding that the TE poor blocking puts a strain on the o-line gapping.
Not asking for a debate. Just figured I'd say this and be done with it. You mention that Bleacher Report says similar things, but you linked the Bleacher Report. Perhaps you meant Pro Football Focus said similar things? And lastly, are you suggesting that being rated the 14th best center is elite? I think that may be the root cause of our disagreement. When you said elite, I thought you meant top 5'ish. I'll admit that the word means varying things to different people, particularly when rating football talent. QB discussions in particular seem to stretch the use a bit more than some other positions.
 
Not asking for a debate. Just figured I'd say this and be done with it. You mention that Bleacher Report says similar things, but you linked the Bleacher Report. Perhaps you meant Pro Football Focus said similar things? And lastly, are you suggesting that being rated the 14th best center is elite? I think that may be the root cause of our disagreement. When you said elite, I thought you meant top 5'ish. I'll admit that the word means varying things to different people, particularly when rating football talent. QB discussions in particular seem to stretch the use a bit more than some other positions.

I changed the image. I keep saying elite in pass protection.

Yes, elite has a variance. Top 5ish as a pass protector. Top 15 overall. I don’t consider Kilgore more than a journeyman.
 
I changed the image. I keep saying elite in pass protection.

Yes, elite has a variance. Top 5ish as a pass protector. Top 15 overall. I don’t consider Kilgore more than a journeyman.
Fair enough, and thanks for clarifying that. It is worth noting though that the PFF image showing now singles out Josh Sitton as "the only guard in PFF history to grade above 85 for nine consecutive seasons." Seems they like our new guard's pass-blocking efficiency.

Perhaps the biggest change on our OL wasn't losing Pouncey, but rather losing Bushrod … who was abysmal.
 
Fair enough, and thanks for clarifying that. It is worth noting though that the PFF image showing now singles out Josh Sitton as "the only guard in PFF history to grade above 85 for nine consecutive seasons." Seems they like our new guard's pass-blocking efficiency.

Perhaps the biggest change on our OL wasn't losing Pouncey, but rather losing Bushrod … who was abysmal.

My only knock on Sitton is his age. The research I found is that not as much age as number of seasons is the factor in determining the decline in O-lineman. Most begin their decline within 11 seasons. Sitton enters his 11th. Call it educated speculation I suppose.
 
Still gonna go with the odds swinging back in the positive. So many things went wrong in 2017....

“So get up, get up, tell the bookie put a bet on ‘not a damn thing will go wrong.’”

 
Conklin being a possible scratch is a big freaking deal. Someone else can post the PFT link.
 
Sitton the PFF 10th ranked "Elite OL" is a monumental upgrade. If he were to lose a step or 2 and end up 15th out of the 160 starting OL he'd still be quantum leaps better than what we've had at any OL position in recent memory! To minimize his addition IMO effectively compromises the validity of any overall contention as being self-serving!
10. JOSH SITTON, G, CHICAGO BEARS – 86.6 OVERALL GRADE
PFF Elite Stat: Sitton has allowed just 10 QB pressures on 335 snaps in pass protection.

There is no better pass blocking guard in the game than Josh Sitton, and despite battling injuries along with the rest of the Chicago offensive line, he has once again been excellent in that area when on the field, but has been better than he has in the past as a run blocker, paving the way for Jordan Howard on the ground. Sitton has surrendered 10 total pressures in 12 games and had some dominant run blocking performances.
 
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I think 10-6 is high but certainly possible. But then i see a game like Green Bay and start think this secondary might finally be up to the task of keeping an excellent passing game in check.

Put gun to my head id say 9-7. If Tannehill continues where he left off i wont be surprised with another playoff bid.
 
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