Rich Eisen Thinks Tua If Healthy Is A Top Three MVP Candidate in '23 | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Rich Eisen Thinks Tua If Healthy Is A Top Three MVP Candidate in '23

Kebo said:
Yet he is behind both in winning percentage
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And? You can't possibly believe that the difference in the TEAM'S records was solely the QB.

Take Baltimore. League rank in scoring defense since 2018 - 2, 3, 2, 17, 2

Want to guess which of those seasons Baltimore had a losing record?
 
FinfanInBuffalo said:
And? You can't possibly believe that the difference in the TEAM'S records was solely the QB.

Take Baltimore. League rank in scoring defense since 2018 - 2, 3, 2, 17, 2

Want to guess which of those seasons Baltimore had a losing record?
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Again, look at previous MVP winners. What was their winning percentage the year they won the MVP? This is simple stuff.
 
FinfanInBuffalo said:
And? You can't possibly believe that the difference in the TEAM'S records was solely the QB.

Take Baltimore. League rank in scoring defense since 2018 - 2, 3, 2, 17, 2

Want to guess which of those seasons Baltimore had a losing record?
Click to expand...

More proof of double standards for Tua. According to some, he only wins because of the talent surrounding him or the scheme. Jackson must win in spite if the talent around him and apparently isn't injury prone?
 
Kebo said:
Again, look at previous MVP winners. What was their winning percentage the year they won the MVP? This is simple stuff.
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It seems that you have completely missed the point. I haven’t checked all the other MVPs but Jackson had a top tier defense siding his winning percentage. He won the mvp due to his ungodly stats that year. However that has proven to be more of a unicorn year and he’s declined as a passer since. I no way shape or form does what he did 4 years ago make him an mvp candidate today, especially with the downward trajectory his career is currently on.

So why did Baltimore give him all that money you might ask? What we’re their options really, and how many QBs have gotten huge contracts that teams regret shortly after.

The guy struggles to throw outside the numbers and reading the field. He makes electric runs but as others have pointed out, when teams take that away and force him to beat you which his arm, he typically can’t.
 
AZStryker said:
It seems that you have completely missed the point. I haven’t checked all the other MVPs but Jackson had a top tier defense siding his winning percentage. He won the mvp due to his ungodly stats that year. However that has proven to be more of a unicorn year and he’s declined as a passer since. I no way shape or form does what he did 4 years ago make him an mvp candidate today, especially with the downward trajectory his career is currently on.

So why did Baltimore give him all that money you might ask? What we’re their options really, and how many QBs have gotten huge contracts that teams regret shortly after.

The guy struggles to throw outside the numbers and reading the field. He makes electric runs but as others have pointed out, when teams take that away and force him to beat you which his arm, he typically can’t.
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Yep. Basically, he can shred suspect, undisciplined defenses, but when he has a step up to good, solid defenses he struggles.
 
Kebo said:
This thread is about the potential 2023 MVP candidates. There is a correlation between wins and MVP votes.
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Of course there's a correlation. How valuable can a guy possibly be of the team is losing?

Correlation does not = causation, though.

To stick with Baltimore as an example, Flacco had back to back 12 win seasons. He was never in any MVP discussions, though, because he was not the driving force behind those teams
 
AZStryker said:
It seems that you have completely missed the point. I haven’t checked all the other MVPs but Jackson had a top tier defense siding his winning percentage. He won the mvp due to his ungodly stats that year. However that has proven to be more of a unicorn year and he’s declined as a passer since. I no way shape or form does what he did 4 years ago make him an mvp candidate today, especially with the downward trajectory his career is currently on.

So why did Baltimore give him all that money you might ask? What we’re their options really, and how many QBs have gotten huge contracts that teams regret shortly after.

The guy struggles to throw outside the numbers and reading the field. He makes electric runs but as others have pointed out, when teams take that away and force him to beat you which his arm, he typically can’t.
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You can continue to downgrade Lamar all you want. He will continue to win football games. He is second only to Mahomes in winning percentage. Let me know when Tua reaches 70%.
 
Mach2 said:
Of course there's a correlation. How valuable can a guy possibly be of the team is losing?

Correlation does not = causation, though.

To stick with Baltimore as an example, Flacco had back to back 12 win seasons. He was never in any MVP discussions, though, because he was not the driving force behind those teams
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You want to argue that Lamar resembles Flacco or that Lamar isn’t capable of winning an MVP?

Those would be very tough arguments to win:nah:
 
Kebo said:
You want to argue that Lamar resembles Flacco or that Lamar isn’t capable of winning an MVP?

Those would be very tough arguments to win:nah:
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No, that's not what I'm argueing at all. I'm saying record is not a/the primary factor. For an MVP candidate, individual performance is the #1.prerequisite. Record has to, in part at least, be a result of that individual's high level performance.

While I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of LJ winning another, it isn't very likely given his recent performance.
 
I really find this funny that all these posters want to argue that Tua is more likely to win the MVP than Lamar. Lamar has won the MVP once already. He just got a big upgrade at WR. The man has won 71 percent of his games with one of the worst WR groups in the NFL. Watch and see what he does with a good WR group this year.

I am not even downgrading Tua. I just rank 4 guys above him in the MVP race.
 
Kebo said:
I really find this funny that all these posters want to argue that Tua is more likely to win the MVP than Lamar. Lamar has won the MVP once already. He just got a big upgrade at WR. The man has won 71 percent of his games with one of the worst WR groups in the NFL. Watch and see what he does with a good WR group this year.

I am not even downgrading Tua. I just rank 4 guys above him in the MVP race.
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Except that isn't just the view of posters. It's also the view of a biased media, and more relevant, professional odds makers.

I don't have an issue with you having your view, but now you are ignoring, and/or failing to acknowledge that view is almost unanimously in the minority.
 
Mach2 said:
Except that isn't just the view of posters. It's also the view of a biased media, and more relevant, professional odds makers.

I don't have an issue with you having your view, but now you are ignoring, and/or failing to acknowledge that view is almost unanimously in the minority.
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Professional oddsmakers are mixed. Some have Tua ahead of Lamar. Some have Lamar ahead of Tua. Just about all have Herbert ahead of both which I find ridiculous.
I stated where I would have them ranked for 2023.
1 Mahomes
2 Hurts
3 Lamar
4 Burrow
5 Tua
6 Allen

I will revisit this thread in December and eat my crow if I am wrong about Lamar.
 
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