Roquan Smith wants out | Page 17 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Roquan Smith wants out

Here is my thought.

If he can be had for the 49ers 1st round pick and you can get a deal done - do it.

As a contrarian, we are talking a position that many disregard or underinvest in. So to do better than marginally on such a key role is good. To be transcendent is better, while you aren’t paying your QB. Do not get worked up about contracts and stuff like they aren’t. We have few weaknesses, if not THIS role and guy.

You are not going to get this sort of impact from anyone not named Tyreek Hill in a trade. Xavien Howard is off books 2-3 years.

Get this man if it isn’t a ransom, sign Wilkins. Crush it.

BTW - why is an off ball linebacker who ranks in the top 5 or so in the last decade not a premium position? Based on what analysis, other than positional bias and trends in salaries and draft slots? He can play the pass, if that’s the bias.

It's a matter of overall impact. Most good teams have good WR's, and those good WR's are typically the most dangerous offensive players. Guys like Gronk, Kelce, and Kittle are the exceptions. But, the point is that Smith isn't covering those players, and he isn't impacting plays that go to those players unless he gets home on a blitz. He's a very good blitzer, but he's not D. White in that regard, and his production as a blitzer doesn't compare to the production (impact on the QB from pressures and sacks) of a reasonably comparable Edge.

So, Off-LB's are less valuable in coverage than CB's and S's, and they affect the QB much less than Edge - or a disruptive DT for that matter.

And, that's just defense. You're not even in the conversation without high-end weapons. KC, GB, LAR have competed with relatively poor Off-LB's. It's not that they don't matter. Those teams would have been even better with better LB's, but it clearly doesn't affect the bottom line (W's and L's) the way WR, Edge, OT, CB, and S do. DT and IOL also have strong cases over LB.
 
Here is my thought.

If he can be had for the 49ers 1st round pick and you can get a deal done - do it.

As a contrarian, we are talking a position that many disregard or underinvest in. So to do better than marginally on such a key role is good. To be transcendent is better, while you aren’t paying your QB. Do not get worked up about contracts and stuff like they aren’t. We have few weaknesses, if not THIS role and guy.

You are not going to get this sort of impact from anyone not named Tyreek Hill in a trade. Xavien Howard is off books 2-3 years.

Get this man if it isn’t a ransom, sign Wilkins. Crush it.

BTW - why is an off ball linebacker who ranks in the top 5 or so in the last decade not a premium position? Based on what analysis, other than positional bias and trends in salaries and draft slots? He can play the pass, if that’s the bias.

He’s not worth a 1st nor will any team trade a first for him. He’s going to want a huge deal which will be hard to strike one as it sounds like he wants premium and isn’t a fan of a backloaded contract, wants money upfront and guaranteed. He’s also not in a playmaker position, it’s very rare defensive players get premium draft picks. Few instances have been Jalen Ramsey who was pretty much the clear cut number one corner and Khalil Mack who was also probably the number one pass rusher. I don’t think smith is a top 5 mlb in the league. He might be close but he’s not top 5. PFF has him rated 14th rated LB. Solid but not giving up a 1 for 14th best. Maybe I’d consider give them like Williams and our 1st while getting back Smith and a 2nd and 3rd/4th but not a straight up 1st.
 
It's a matter of overall impact. Most good teams have good WR's, and those good WR's are typically the most dangerous offensive players. Guys like Gronk, Kelce, and Kittle are the exceptions. But, the point is that Smith isn't covering those players, and he isn't impacting plays that go to those players unless he gets home on a blitz. He's a very good blitzer, but he's not D. White in that regard, and his production as a blitzer doesn't compare to the production (impact on the QB from pressures and sacks) of a reasonably comparable Edge.

So, Off-LB's are less valuable in coverage than CB's and S's, and they affect the QB much less than Edge - or a disruptive DT for that matter.

And, that's just defense. You're not even in the conversation without high-end weapons. KC, GB, LAR have competed with relatively poor Off-LB's. It's not that they don't matter. Those teams would have been even better with better LB's, but it clearly doesn't affect the bottom line (W's and L's) the way WR, Edge, OT, CB, and S do. DT and IOL also have strong cases over LB.
As usual, you nail the details. I do not argue with any of your points, and I’m in a “this situation” value discussion: the Miami Dolphins from 2022-2024.

A value conversation cannot happen in a vacuum. A top MLB with room to grow (while we aren’t paying a QB, Waddle, Jaelen Phillips, Jevon Holland) is something that the teams you referenced couldn’t pull off cuz of the QB and skill positions you mentioned.

We can (for 2-3 years, purely based on relief from the CB duo and QB relief) afford him. We will not make a DE pick between 20-30 who will make an impact until 2024-2025 next year.

Devondre Campbell just got paid. He is nowhere near the player that Roquan Smith is. He made the Packers D work. This feels personal and sleight-related. They traded Mack, too.

Who gives a **** if we overpay for a position (only, when we can) if we don’t overpay for the player? Usually it’s overpaying for the position for a marginal or above average player.

We have tons of youth on D. This doesn’t make us older.

If he can be had, I hope we make it happen without disagreeing with a single point you made.
 
Would love to get this guy. A package with Byron Jones, Mike Gesicki, and 2 1st round picks might get him? Our First rounders will not be high picks, so it might have to be more.
Elmer Fudd could play QB with the Dolphins having a defense with Smith.
Way too much for Smith. Absolutely not.
 
Would be surprising but if that’s fact, Greer needs to go for it.
We def need to kick the tires...I have been wanting a stud lb since Zach but in no way, shape or form is he worth Jones, Gesicki, and 2 first rounders. That type of payment is for a all pro QB in his prime. If Grier can work his magic and package a player and a 3rd or poss 2nd I'd be behind it 100%
 
We def need to kick the tires...I have been wanting a stud lb since Zach but in no way, shape or form is he worth Jones, Gesicki, and 2 first rounders. That type of payment is for a all pro QB in his prime. If Grier can work his magic and package a player and a 3rd or poss 2nd I'd be behind it 100%
I guess what I’m thinking optimistically is our firsts in 2023 and 2024 will be in the mid to high 20s… or better. So not worth what say the Lions picks would be. And, WITH Smith, possibly in the very high 20s. I value Gesicki less than some here due to the. Ew offense. Mike was a slow learner. As to Jones, he’s just eating up way too much cap. Improve the front and mid defense, the 2nd corner and safeties can cover more, blitz less.
 
I guess what I’m thinking optimistically is our firsts in 2023 and 2024 will be in the mid to high 20s… or better. So not worth what say the Lions picks would be. And, WITH Smith, possibly in the very high 20s. I value Gesicki less than some here due to the. Ew offense. Mike was a slow learner. As to Jones, he’s just eating up way too much cap. Improve the front and mid defense, the 2nd corner and safeties can cover more, blitz less.
Trading Jones would result in eating up even more cap, if I’m remembering right. He’s not really moveable til text year

And you’ve brought up our first round pick- but are you forgetting we don’t have one? That 49ers pick could end up could high
 
Trading Jones would result in eating up even more cap, if I’m remembering right. He’s not really moveable til text year

And you’ve brought up our first round pick- but are you forgetting we don’t have one? That 49ers pick could end up could high
I’ve mentioned twice regarding the 2nd fist and 2024 being of comparatively low value . Why are some not understanding my comment? We still have a first round pick I. 2023… the 49ers. If Lance sucks Jimmy G plays. Even with their talent, the 49’ers could be 9-7, giving the Fins a pick in the high teens. More value to the Bears. The puck taken by the NFL was OUR number one
 



Jeremy Fowler
@JFowlerESPN


'The guy is a baller': NFL execs help us pick 10 potential trade fits for Roquan Smith

Some teams I talked to today didn’t see anyone giving up a first-round pick for Smith.
I agree. i don’t see anyone giving up a first round pick for him either. A second round pick in 2023 and a 5th round pick in 2024 is what I would offer for him.
 
I’ve mentioned twice regarding the 2nd fist and 2024 being of comparatively low value . Why are some not understanding my comment? We still have a first round pick I. 2023… the 49ers. If Lance sucks Jimmy G plays. Even with their talent, the 49’ers could be 9-7, giving the Fins a pick in the high teens. More value to the Bears. The puck taken by the NFL was OUR number one
Just wasnt sure on the rational, I may have missed that part. All good man. I was just assuming you were crediting that later-ish pick to being our own. Since we are primed for the playoffs :cool:
 
Travis.. my bad attitude showing on my reply to you. Too much estrogen! Haha. I still believe Gesicki is expendable.. though again I really love his spirit, and has been a Tua supporter throughout. I may retract my including Jones.
 
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