RUMOR: The Team to Watch in Jimmy Garoppolo Trade Talks is Miami

[AZStryker]

Film. You don't know how to properly evaluate film. That's the answer.

Ya I’ve come to realize these casuals were dealing with got their football “insight” from a video game or shock jock. Breaking down film would be the moon to them.

 

[Swiss]

You should probably do some better research. Tua was actually tied with Kyler Murray for the #1 completion percentage on deep throws at 50%. You're literally basing your opinion on something that is 100% wrong. It's been plastered on this site for months. Do better next time.

Wow. That's amazing! Do you know if they threw the same amount of times down the field?

 

[fin007]

I'll answer it. I told a group of my coworkers the other day that Tua had the highest passing completion percentage. They laughed and said "thats because he doesn't throw past 5 yards"

Enough said right there....

Get back to work. Oh, and I’ll take a McDouble and some fries. Thanks.

 

[fin007]

Your only argument is his WRS. Yeah they weren't great but great QBs make their receivers better. Brady has done it for years, Rodgers does it, mahomes did it, Herbert does it, they all do. It was the same cast Fitz had no trouble with. We've yet to see him push the ball down the field on any level, throw on the run, struggle making the right read down the field. What are you going to say if he's replaced this year? His cast again? The guy has been average at his best. I hope he does all the great things you give him reach arounds for but only time will tell.

SAT reading comprehension score this guy: 121 out of 800.

 

[Sirspud]

You see, Burrow has had 2 years with solid to great surround cast. Mixon, Boyd, Chase last year. He didn't have a great line but he had a great offensive skill players.

I get that Burrow and the Bengals got to the Super Bowl, and with a better second half they could have won it. But I still don't quite see that team as one that is the class of the league like a Super Bowl appearance would suggest. I think they just managed to win a couple hard fought playoff games

I agree. I like Jimmy G, but I don't see him as a guy that makes those big plays. Jimmy G was in an offense with a very good run game. He faced a ton of single high looks. He had opportunities to take shots and passed. That's one area where I believe Tua is different. As I've said before, when I reviewed Tua's college tape he was the most aggressive QB I'd ever seen. I see that aggressive style as his baseline. Last year he was on a team that had a run game no defense worried about and had historically bad pass pro and WRs that couldn't get open. He played more of a game manager style b/c it was the smart thing to do in those circumstances.

IMO anybody who can't see that Jimmy G played in far different circumstances and how that impacted the QB play has a very limited understanding of football. I see Jimmy G as Tua's floor. Tua is basically a more accurate version of Jimmy G with a more aggressive play style. In fact, in Khollman's break down he specifically noted that Mahommes and Tua were similarly aggressive on their deep attempts (relative to attempts and defensive looks). Obviously due to the circumstances, Tua didn't have many deep attempts, but on those attempts he was statistically the most accurate deep passer last season (Jimmy G was 28th).

But realistically, that's a small part of the NFL game. For example, even Mahommes threw a little over 79% of his passes within 10 yards of the LOS. We know that Tua is incredibly accurate on those short passes. That's most of the NFL game. How much better will Tua be in those situations with more clean pockets, defenses in cover 2 and off of P/A?. Not to mention WRs who actually get separation and don't lead the league in drops. I see people who are worried about Tua or are writing him off as just a game manager and I see it as people who either haven't studied his game much and/or have a relatively limited understanding of the game.

My biggest worries about Tua are his health, his ability to work with the OL to prevent pressure, and whether or not an OL with many of the same guys will hack it. I'm not worried the least about his passing ability.

 

[mnphinfan]

Haha, Aaron Rodgers was out for most of 2017 and in 2018 he threw for 4400 yards 25 td and 2 int. You mean he couldn't overcome bad defense? If Tua ever puts up those numbers, hell will have frozen over. What would Rodgers do with Tyreek and waddle? That would be scary

I totally forgot about the injury in 2017. You are definitely right on that one.

What did they win in 2018 or since? What have the Packer's done since Rodgers started holding them for ransom for higher pay. Nothing. They've gone 7-9 in the playoffs because they don't have a complete team. Sure they have a great regular season record but you don't play for regular season records. You play for Super Bowl's.

And guess what, Rodgers already had Devante Adams during that time. Still no SB.

The reason being, the defense always seemed to let him down when he really needed them. They were never there to help or pick him up like TB12's teams did. Not even Mahomes could win a SB without his two starting T's. Guess who's D picked him up that game? TB12's.

If Rodgers/Mahomes can't win a SB with half a team that doesn't perform well, how do you expect Tua to do consistently well in the regular season with a team that is a shell of the aforementioned? You can't.

This is all the supporters of Tua are asking for. Just wait to evaluate him until he has some semblance of an offense that actually can compete each Sunday at the NFL level. Because his surrounding cast the last 2 years on the offensive side of the ball can't say they did that.

 

[mnphinfan]

Wow. That's amazing! Do you know if they threw the same amount of times down the field?

I don't know the exact numbers but Tua's was way less. I think Tua was only 28 or 29 attempts

It why supporters of Tua say, with more opportunities to throw deep, the better the numbers will become.

 

[LegionOfZoom]

I don't know the exact numbers but Tua's was way less. I think Tua was only 28 or 29 attempts

It why supporters of Tua say, with more opportunities to throw deep, the better the numbers will become.

 

[Mr Fan]

Not when your QB refuses to push the ball, which he refused to do. When he tried he was not accurate. So they dared him and he did nothing with it.

Tua doesn't refuse to push the ball downfield, the simple truth is he CAN NOT push the ball downfield effectively so he is intelligent enough to attempt it very very sparingly.

His passes take too long to get to target or float, with the Alabama all star track team for receivers it didn't much matter, but this is the NFL.....not the SEC playing some D2 school. Come to think of it, I'm not certain I've ever seen Tua throw a 20 yrd out in the NFL.....

 

[mnphinfan]

Your only argument is his WRS. Yeah they weren't great but great QBs make their receivers better. Brady has done it for years, Rodgers does it, mahomes did it, Herbert does it, they all do. It was the same cast Fitz had no trouble with. We've yet to see him push the ball down the field on any level, throw on the run, struggle making the right read down the field. What are you going to say if he's replaced this year? His cast again? The guy has been average at his best. I hope he does all the great things you give him reach arounds for but only time will tell.

Um, Brady had Welker, Moss, and Edelman at WR. Not to mention Gronk and Hernandez at TE. Plus Corey Dillon and Blount at RB. Plus some of the best o-lines in the NFL at the time. In Tampa he has had Evans, Goodwin, Brown Gronk and Fournette. Those are amazing pieces for a QB.

Rodgers has had Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, Donald Driver and Adams at WR and Michael Finley and Robert Tonyan at TE. Plus Grant and Jones at RB. His line as been a top 10 unit the past decade. Not to shabby.

Herbert has had Allen, Williams and Eckler, along with a revamped o-line last year. (Guess what, he still doesn't have a winning record as a starter)

Tua has had...Waddle and Gesicki. Zero o-line and rb's that wouldn't even make other teams rosters. It's worthless to even type his supporting cast until this year.

 

[GhostArmOfMarino]

What if Tua balls out?? Will you then be a believer? I don't understand your take on this. At least the insufferable ones stick to their guns and harp on how bad/average Tua is. You on the other hand like to play both sides. You say he deserves another year yet adamantly state he won't show us improvement since you don't believe he will.

Put it this way, my opinion isn't the end all be all and I don't want to pretend like it is.

I think his game has a lot of flaws, that doesn't mean he can't improve. My not thinking he will doesn't mean he won't.

It's also based on context. If he's amazing we can save picks next year, if he's bad...well we gave him everything we could and it didn't work out.

He has some plus traits, I may not believe he's going to be amazing but I don't see any benefit in ejecting him prematurely.

 

[mnphinfan]

Tua doesn't refuse to push the ball downfield, the simple truth is he CAN NOT push the ball downfield effectively so he is intelligent enough to attempt it very very sparingly.

His passes take too long to get to target or float, with the Alabama all star track team for receivers it didn't much matter, but this is the NFL.....not the SEC playing some D2 school. Come to think of it, I'm not certain I've ever seen Tua throw a 20 yrd out in the NFL.....

How about a 50 yard post corner instead? Or is that too far?

Also, since your late to the party. We've already discussed how Tua was tied with Kyler Murray for the best completion percentage, 50%, on deep throws. But you do you, ostrich.

 

[Ray R]

I do. Do you ever actually read what I say? I've said several times over the last year that there are factors to Tua. I've also said I don't want to trade for Jimmy but it's not far fetched. I've also said our receivers were not good.
At some time, however, a QB has to make plays. That's where he struggles. We will find out if I'm right or you are this year. My hope is that you are. People are a bit blinded by their love for him on here.

I notice you still haven't mentioned the OL and its performance with regard to protecting the QB.
This is just as true for a first-place team as a it is to a last-place team.

Look at the performance ratings of the OL and its players relative to how well a QB plays. Then make a comparison between a team that wins 12 or more games to a team that wins less than 6 games.

Which QB's look the best?
How much of that QB's performance was based on good OL play?

Which QB looked the worst?
How much of that QB's performance was based on poor OL play?

Do you see any correlations?
If you do, what are they?

If you are going to tell me that a good QB makes his OL look good and that a poor QB makes his OL look bad, then you need to explain to me how one QBs performance can enhance the performance of 5 OL-men.
Especially when the OL-men all take physical action before the QB does on every play.

I've re-read this several times and cannot see any reason why an adult could not understand clearly what I have said - LOL

 

[Ray R]

This is also my point. The 3-6 yard crossing routes can only take us so far. I'm waiting for a moment from him where he makes a play that speaks "this guy can be great". I haven't seen that yet.

You should then be complaining about the play calling and the time the OL give our QB to throw, shouldn't you? - LOL

 

[Travis34]

I've mentioned several times that I don't think all criticism is valid either. I don't agree with every negative or deny every positive.

Hell, all offseason I've been saying that despite my not believing in him, Tua needs another year here to prove what he can do. So i feel like I've been pretty balanced myself.

Far, far, more balanced than some