Should Xavien be traded for draft capital?

[13marino13]

Wishful thinking. Beside NE, I don't see any recent teams reached SB can maintenance SB level play for more than two years. The odds are against you.

Not many other teams take the same approach to contracts and veterans as the Pats do. It's all in the contracts not many look far enough into the future and plan accordingly, most team's windows are always limited because of impending cap issues, they have to dismantle the team. There hasn't been a team in recent history that has literally turned over their entire roster in such a short period of time as we have, we are in great shape as far as our contracts go, and on a side note, the Chiefs have made it there two years straight and are in a good position to possibly make it there again this year...

 

[13marino13]

Teams love looking at situations like these like a game a poker. Based on how the contract was done, it is logical to say Miami has all the cards here. Howard has two ten's, and the dolphins have two Aces, with the other two aces lined up after the flop. Anything that Howard is attempting to do at this moment is nothing but a bluff. It won't matter what pops up after the turn, and the river. The dolphins are winning in the end. The dolphins are more likely to trade him based on our previous stances in these situations. However, they would only consider that if Iggy is seen as a game changer. Is almost as if the dolphins anticipated this so they drafted iggy lol.

Been saying that about Iggy since we drafted him...

 

[PhinFan1968]

After hearing that podcast, **** X. Sit and pay fines, if the team doesn't trade him.

What leverage can he possibly believe he has? Should've waited a year.

 

[eMCee85]

^^^That was always the most REASONABLE thing X and his agents could have presented to the Dolphins. But there's a reason why they didn't! IMO, the answer is obvious. They're not sure X can make it through an entire season and possibly post-season play without injury that causes him to miss time.

It's challenging for the Dolphins too because X is probably worth the most compensation wise now than he'll be worth going forward. Do you follow the Patriots model and strike now while the irons hottest and get the max you can for him? Before the eventual decline and more than likely injury bug strikes?

I really really really think it depends on how the secondary looks without him during the offseason.

Boom, that's exactly it. He cant stay healthy and the team don't want to take the chance tying up funds for an injured player. X knows that too which is why he's trying to get paid. Too easy

 

[Feverdream]

So the players agreed on an uneven businesses agreement, and they must honor it. If its so black and white, why hold out exist? Why the club never went on court and forced players come to camp?

One way that this was addressed was the increased fines for players who hold out. They also added the rule that fines can no longer be waived.

The owners and players agreed that if you had a contract, you were bound to fulfill it... now if your contract has lapsed, like when you've been tagged, then you CAN hold out.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

It's a fair discussion point. I'm not super happy that Howard isn't honoring, at least for now, his current contract. At the same time, renegotiating makes the most sense IMO.

Miami is poised to make some noise in the AFC over the next few years. The team is in excellent salary cap space moving forward and Howard is arguably the best player on the team. It seems to be in the Dolphins best interests to keep him.

I do like that Howard worked with Iggy during the offseason. That shows that he is a team player.

 

[KBEE]

 

[Dan13Forever]

Not many other teams take the same approach to contracts and veterans as the Pats do. It's all in the contracts not many look far enough into the future and plan accordingly, most team's windows are always limited because of impending cap issues, they have to dismantle the team. There hasn't been a team in recent history that has literally turned over their entire roster in such a short period of time as we have, we are in great shape as far as our contracts go, and on a side note, the Chiefs have made it there two years straight and are in a good position to possibly make it there again this year...

NE was able to do it, beside the points you raised, was they had Brady. He is the eraser, he erased many holes in the team. He made OL, rb, wr better. And you also have to hit on picks and FA. Case in point, we better hit on Long, or we have to give big contract to Gesicke, which will put us in cap issue.

So go back to my theory I mentioned in my previous posts, in this day and age, window is about 2 years, 3 max, so don't thrive for SB level continuity, or so call 'dynasty'. Its is so difficult and involves pure luck. We need to accept the recirculating up and down pattern the league is constructed and take advantage of our window now. Hence, my longing for getting Watson or Rodger.

 

[Jamesw]

Honor... it's an old fashioned sort of word.

Men used to be willing to die rather than go back on an agreement that they'd only sealed with a handshake, now honor is considered quaint... a weakness, something to be laughed at.

Post of the day and sadly true.

 

[Jamesw]

I would trade him for 2 second rounders over the next 2 drafts, or a 1st this year and 4th next year. A friend proposed a straight trade with the Cowboys for Zeke Elliott but Im not sure. That might be trading one headache for an even bigger headache.

 

[Dan13Forever]

Honor... it's an old fashioned sort of word.

Men used to be willing to die rather than go back on an agreement that they'd only sealed with a handshake, now honor is considered quaint... a weakness, something to be laughed at.

Easy for you to say when you are outside looking in, and you , our, sole purpose is to want to win.

Tell me how would you feel the worker next to you doing half of what you do but making more than you. Don't tell me you would be happily going to work every day . And by human nature, including you, would give yourself 110% every second on every thing?
I know i would not, and majority of people wouldn't either. If you tell me you would, you are either lying, or in extreme minority.

 

[Digital]

I think of two very smart comments. The first repeated so many times I don't even know who said it originally or the context, but I'm sure it wasn't football. The second was by a great coach. The two comments are:

1. "Everybody has a price" - Unknown

2. "You keep your best players" - Don Shula

We gave up two Pro-Bowlers, one was Laremy Tunsil, for whom we got a ton of resources ... but still no Pro-Bowlers. The other was Minkah Fitzpatrick, who is now a 2-time All-Pro ... and we haven't gotten a Pro-Bowler for him yet either. So we've seen both ends of that spectrum. Tunsil is the epitome of the first comment. Minkah is probably the example of the second comment.

IMHO, we shouldn't get rid of Howard, because he is THE dominant takeaway guy in the league and those are rarer than pass rushers. But by the same token, he's injury prone, and he will never command a higher value than now. Personally, I'd try everything possible to keep him and keep him happy ... but in the end, even Howard has a price.

We're going through the same analysis with many guys right now, such as re-signing our key FA's Emmanuel Ogbah and Mike Gesicki, arguably our least replaceable guys on both sides of the ball. But I try to stick with the wisdom that Don Shula gave, because he truly is the GOAT. Replacing Xavien Howard is highly unlikely ... and if we're serious about being a Super Bowl contending team ... we need a few great players. I hope we find a way to keep him.

 

[Dan13Forever]

I think of two very smart comments. The first repeated so many times I don't even know who said it originally or the context, but I'm sure it wasn't football. The second was by a great coach. The two comments are:

1. "Everybody has a price" - Unknown

2. "You keep your best players" - Don Shula

We gave up two Pro-Bowlers, one was Laremy Tunsil, for whom we got a ton of resources ... but still no Pro-Bowlers. The other was Minkah Fitzpatrick, who is now a 2-time All-Pro ... and we haven't gotten a Pro-Bowler for him yet either. So we've seen both ends of that spectrum. Tunsil is the epitome of the first comment. Minkah is probably the example of the second comment.

IMHO, we shouldn't get rid of Howard, because he is THE dominant takeaway guy in the league and those are rarer than pass rushers. But by the same token, he's injury prone, and he will never command a higher value than now. Personally, I'd try everything possible to keep him and keep him happy ... but in the end, even Howard has a price.

We're going through the same analysis with many guys right now, such as re-signing our key FA's Emmanuel Ogbah and Mike Gesicki, arguably our least replaceable guys on both sides of the ball. But I try to stick with the wisdom that Don Shula gave, because he truly is the GOAT. Replacing Xavien Howard is highly unlikely ... and if we're serious about being a Super Bowl contending team ... we need a few great players. I hope we find a way to keep him.

Well thought out post

 

[Feverdream]

Easy for you to say when you are outside looking in, and you , our, sole purpose is to want to win.

Tell me how would you feel the worker next to you doing half of what you do but making more than you. Don't tell me you would be happily going to work every day . And by human nature, including you, would give yourself 110% every second on every thing?
I know i would not, and majority of people wouldn't either. If you tell me you would, you are either lying, or in extreme minority.

The problem with this narrative is that there are CBs on the team making less than 1M per year. So he is already making WAY more than most of his 'coworkers'.

...and then there's the zero-sum nature of the salary cap that no other business has. There is a set amount of money set aside to all the employees and every dollar that X gets, someone else loses... this doesn't happen in a normal business.

So, two major holes in that argument.

 

[Dan13Forever]

The problem with this narrative is that there are CBs on the team making less than 1M per year. So he is already making WAY more than most of his 'coworkers'.

...and then there's the zero-sum nature of the salary cap that no other business has. The is a set amount of money set aside to all the employees and every dollar that X gets, someone else loses... this doesn't happen in a normal business.

So, two major holes in that argument.

While I agreed on your point that the team has to distribute money wisely due to cap situation, it doesn't erase the current situation that Jones making more with less output and Baker just received a fat contract with average numbers to show for.
So the solution of what you mentioned is to trade X, and not the 'honor' code you assigned to him.