Should Xavien be traded for draft capital? | Page 7 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Should Xavien be traded for draft capital?

Dan13Forever said:
While I agreed on your point that the team has to distribute money wisely due to cap situation, it doesn't erase the current situation that Jones making more with less output and Baker just received a fat contract with average numbers to show for.
So the solution of what you mentioned is to trade X, and not the 'honor' code you assigned to him.
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Having negotiated contracts for a numbers of years in my final job before retirement, I learned to respect that you had to negotiate a good contract during the time of negotiations-- because you were bound to it, and by it if the other side took you to court. And 'honor' was important when dealing with the other side of the table, because without trust, things would go south very quickly. If you agreed to something, you did it. Period.

...and the second highest paid guy on the team, worrying about the highest paid guy's contract is what the Bible would call 'coveting', and there is a commandment about that sort of thing if you are from any of the Christian forms of thought, which most Americans claim to be.

Then you add in his comments from that podcast and you can clearly see the me-first, screw you nature of Xavien Howard. As good as he is on the field, I think he's a lousy person, and team mate.
 
Digital said:
I think of two very smart comments. The first repeated so many times I don't even know who said it originally or the context, but I'm sure it wasn't football. The second was by a great coach. The two comments are:

1. "Everybody has a price" - Unknown

2. "You keep your best players" - Don Shula

We gave up two Pro-Bowlers, one was Laremy Tunsil, for whom we got a ton of resources ... but still no Pro-Bowlers. The other was Minkah Fitzpatrick, who is now a 2-time All-Pro ... and we haven't gotten a Pro-Bowler for him yet either. So we've seen both ends of that spectrum. Tunsil is the epitome of the first comment. Minkah is probably the example of the second comment.

IMHO, we shouldn't get rid of Howard, because he is THE dominant takeaway guy in the league and those are rarer than pass rushers. But by the same token, he's injury prone, and he will never command a higher value than now. Personally, I'd try everything possible to keep him and keep him happy ... but in the end, even Howard has a price.

We're going through the same analysis with many guys right now, such as re-signing our key FA's Emmanuel Ogbah and Mike Gesicki, arguably our least replaceable guys on both sides of the ball. But I try to stick with the wisdom that Don Shula gave, because he truly is the GOAT. Replacing Xavien Howard is highly unlikely ... and if we're serious about being a Super Bowl contending team ... we need a few great players. I hope we find a way to keep him.
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Those accolades come with an asterisk as far as I’m concerned. The ole eyeball test says neither we’re all that great after moving on from Miami.
 
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Feverdream said:
The problem with this narrative is that there are CBs on the team making less than 1M per year. So he is already making WAY more than most of his 'coworkers'.

...and then there's the zero-sum nature of the salary cap that no other business has. There is a set amount of money set aside to all the employees and every dollar that X gets, someone else loses... this doesn't happen in a normal business.

So, two major holes in that argument.
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Have to agree with this statement, sure X is a great player and as Shula said you keep your best players. But at what point does this become a problem team wise. Flores wants players that by into his system and X is obviously not that type. He has shown over and over again that he is a me first type player, he was ecstatic when he signed his last contract but all of a sudden it's not enough? How is that being a team player? Sure he had a great year last year and that is all fine and we'll but he did sign a contract two years ago and is honourbound to abide by it. And I don't want to hear any crap about how NFL teams take no chances on these players because they do. Sure players may get hurt, or not play up to expectations but the team still has guaranteed clauses in the contracts and it all counts against the cap. That is one of the main reasons that football teams don't have dynasties, unless of course you happen to live in New England
 
Feverdream said:
Having negotiated contracts for a numbers of years in my final job before retirement, I learned to respect that you had to negotiate a good contract during the time of negotiations-- because you were bound to it, and by it if the other side took you to court. And 'honor' was important when dealing with the other side of the table, because without trust, things would go south very quickly. If you agreed to something, you did it. Period.

...and the second highest paid guy on the team, worrying about the highest paid guy's contract is what the Bible would call 'coveting', and there is a commandment about that sort of thing if you are from any of the Christian forms of thought, which most Americans claim to be.

Then you add in his comments from that podcast and you can clearly see the me-first, screw you nature of Xavien Howard. As good as he is on the field, I think he's a lousy person, and team mate.
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Amen brother
 
Feverdream said:
Having negotiated contracts for a numbers of years in my final job before retirement, I learned to respect that you had to negotiate a good contract during the time of negotiations-- because you were bound to it, and by it if the other side took you to court. And 'honor' was important when dealing with the other side of the table, because without trust, things would go south very quickly. If you agreed to something, you did it. Period.

...and the second highest paid guy on the team, worrying about the highest paid guy's contract is what the Bible would call 'coveting', and there is a commandment about that sort of thing if you are from any of the Christian forms of thought, which most Americans claim to be.

Then you add in his comments from that podcast and you can clearly see the me-first, screw you nature of Xavien Howard. As good as he is on the field, I think he's a lousy person, and team mate.
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Just FYI, i am close to retirement, and my job involves constant contract negotiation. During the enforceable period of the current contract, you must renegotiate as soon as you have leverage. You don't wait for current contract to expire then negotiate. The other side has to evaluate the cost of court battle and lost of revenue. And thats how I got my bonus. If not, it makes for short employment.
 
13marino13 said:
Been saying that about Iggy since we drafted him...
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While we are on the subject of IGGY, players get greedy all the time, but that is mainly the fault of their agents. As much as I love X, we would be better off trading him before he slows down. I wasn't expecting us to draft Iggy to replace X, but Byron Jones lol. With that said, this may be a good thing for the kid. He has looked sharp in the offseason.
 
Dan13Forever said:
Just FYI, i am close to retirement, and my job involves constant contract negotiation. During the enforceable period of the current contract, you must renegotiate as soon as you have leverage. You don't wait for current contract to expire then negotiate. The other side has to evaluate the cost of court battle and lost of revenue. And thats how I got my bonus. If not, it makes for short employment.
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That would depend on whether the contract has re-opening language contained, and whether both sides have to agree to it.

NFL contracts do not have this language.
 
Feverdream said:
That would depend on whether the contract has re-opening language contained, and whether both sides have to agree to it.

NFL contracts do not have this language.
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Doesn't matter, the other side has to weight the consequences. However, most situation of the business environment remains relative stable therefore renegotiation is not necessary. But as long as I see my side have leverage, language be damn.
 
Dan13Forever said:
Doesn't matter, the other side has to weight the consequences. However, most situation of the business environment remains relative stable therefore renegotiation is not necessary. But as long as I see my side have leverage, language be damn.
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You can always ask... but once that contract is signed, they can go to court and enforce it.
 
Dan13Forever said:
NE was able to do it, beside the points you raised, was they had Brady. He is the eraser, he erased many holes in the team. He made OL, rb, wr better. And you also have to hit on picks and FA. Case in point, we better hit on Long, or we have to give big contract to Gesicke, which will put us in cap issue.

So go back to my theory I mentioned in my previous posts, in this day and age, window is about 2 years, 3 max, so don't thrive for SB level continuity, or so call 'dynasty'. Its is so difficult and involves pure luck. We need to accept the recirculating up and down pattern the league is constructed and take advantage of our window now. Hence, my long for getting Watson or Rodger.
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Obviously having Brady helped, he was willing to play at an under-market valued salary in order to allow the team to sign more players, something X isn't obviously willing to do. But he was far from the only reason the team thrived. If that were the only factor Maholmes should have won the Super Bowl last year despite the Chief's deficiencies on the O-Line. It's a big part but not the only part. Belichick had a knack for knowing when to cut bait and run from the veterans on the team. They were never hamstrung by contracts and always had an out when they signed FA's.
The cap is projected to be at 208 million next year. If the cap checks in at the ceiling of $208.2M, the Dolphins would have over $66.5M in cap space, they'll be able to resign Gesicki with ease if they elect to. Whether they want to spend the money it would probably take is a different story. That also doesn't include any cuts they may make in the off-season. We're in pretty good shape for the foreseeable future...
 
The most important player on a football team is the QB , if Tua is the franchise, x Howard doesn’t mean anything for us in the long run. If he’s greedy that’s fine, Miami should trade him or keep him whatever the dolphins decide. I could care less about a CB who might be here for 2 more years. Again TUA is the only player we should be focusing on.
 
Goonies said:
The most important player on a football team is the QB , if Tua is the franchise, x Howard doesn’t mean anything for us in the long run. If he’s greedy that’s fine, Miami should trade him or keep him whatever the dolphins decide. I could care less about a CB who might be here for 2 more years. Again TUA is the only player we should be focusing on.
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Good point, if Tua progress to top one third level QB, the defense will be fine without X. So yes, the projection of the team for the next ten years depends on Tua. We better hit on him!
 
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