Slimm's 2019 Quarterbacks (underclassman) | Page 18 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Slimm's 2019 Quarterbacks (underclassman)

I'd love to have Slimm weigh in on this, with respect to Kyler Murray and his height.

With respect to the height thing, once you get beyond a certain line of demarcation, let's call it about 6'2" to 6'1", you're already limited in what you can operate in an NFL offense. I know for a fact that a 6'0" guy like Drew Brees is not being asked to throw quick slants as often, that it's a limitation Sean Payton schemes around due to Drew's height (6002). Once a guy gets lower than 6'3" or 6'4", I don't think he's going to drop balls into the shallow middle the way Tom Brady does, for example.

But my perception is, once you've gone beyond that line, once you've gotten shorter than let's call it 6'2", the marginal differences in height don't make a huge difference, structurally speaking. There will be an association between height and certain things, like field vision, being able to use the pocket, being able to get the ball through passing lanes without a lot of PBUs. But it's just an association. It's not structural certainty. It's in the realm of traits evaluation.

RG3 couldn't see the field from behind his offensive line and would have to get out of the pocket in order to get better vision. Russell Wilson had few problems with that, behind a Wisconsin offensive line that were all 6'4" or 6'5" tall. RG3 was 6023 and Russell Wilson is 5105.

Looking at Kyler Murray, one thing that's always struck me is his willingness and ability to stay in the pocket, using the extra time afforded to him to scan the field and find the right throw. He certainly does run around quite a bit, but he also does lots of damage from inside the pocket.

His offensive line are all 6040 or better, with the exception of Ben Powers who is 6032. So clearly this isn't Murray having the benefit of one of those smaller offensive lines. This is a lot like Russell Wilson playing behind a gigantic Wisconsin offensive line.

Getting the ball through passing lanes is always easier for a guy with very quick, very alive feet, and Kyler Murray has both. I've seen plenty of taller quarterbacks who will never get the ball consistently through the passing lanes because they've got dead feet. They don't have a feel for the passing lanes, don't make last second changes in their launching point.

There's a lot of talk about how great the Oklahoma offensive line are and how much time they give Kyler Murray. It's true. But it's also true that his having so much time is a function of his own abilities. I see a LOT of three-man rush going after him, with defenses keeping a spy floating around at the line of scrimmage to try and bottle him up when he scrambles. That works if you've got a guy willing to bail on the pocket early. It hasn't been working for any defense that has played Kyler Murray, because he's willing to be patient, use the time, and find the right throw, often deep down the field.

In the end, for me, when there's a quarterback in the NFL playing Hall of Fame caliber football at 5105, then I'm not going to start making risk-based value calls about a DYNAMIC quarterback talent like Kyler Murray, just because he's maybe an inch shorter than that. I've already made that mistake with Russell Wilson, who I put in the 2nd round, but really wanted to put at the top of the 1st round if not for the height. I'm not going to make that mistake again.

All elite quarterbacks at the NFL level are exceptions to the rule. They're all lightning bolts from God, as Pat Riley would say. That's why the ones playing at that level look so diverse.


Really important paragraph that I bolded and I certainly agree with it. It's why I don't think assigning a spy to Murray is necessarily the right call - at least not fully. I don't think we'll go that route exclusively.

Is he too small? Yep. However, the problem is he's better than most of the quarterbacks that are tall enough.

So what's it gonna be? Are you going to grade a worse quarterback higher because he's taller? The game has changed a lot.
 
Yeah I saw that. Shocking, as there's been a continuous stream of "sources" claiming he's coming out.

He SHOULD stay in school. He's got a lot to work on.

In all fairness to the “sources” if Haskins is staying it is probably because Ryan Day is replacing Urb. I have to believe Urb was going to split reps between Martel and Haskins if Haskins returned.
 
Yeah I saw that. Shocking, as there's been a continuous stream of "sources" claiming he's coming out.

He SHOULD stay in school. He's got a lot to work on.

At the beginning of the year I would have agreed with you, but the kid dominated down the stretch and financially it would be a huge risk for him to not declare now. Got to strike while the iron is hot, it's red hot for him now, no doubt he's going near the very top of round one, don't do a Matt Barkley and throw that away.
 
At the beginning of the year I would have agreed with you, but the kid dominated down the stretch and financially it would be a huge risk for him to not declare now. Got to strike while the iron is hot, it's red hot for him now, no doubt he's going near the very top of round one, don't do a Matt Barkley and throw that away.

I don't buy that. As I brought up before, it was only THREE GAMES ago that he had that awful outing against Michigan State. My co-host was there, in the press box, sitting immediately next to the NFL scouts. They were all saying the same thing. He was bad in that game, not handling pressure well, and he'd been that way for a few games. They all thought he needed to go back to school.

Three games later, we've seen "enough"?

Maybe, but I think it's not been very long since the lowest point in his draft stock. And that to me means you'd like to see him going back to school. Even aside from what my co-host heard, and gleaned from conversation with the scouts at that game, I've seen anonymous scouts killing him with various draft publications.

That may sound overly harsh on a prospect I've been very high on from the jump. But being one of the best in the world at one of the hardest things on the planet to be good at is no small thing.
 
I find it very very very hard to believe that if Haskins declares, his hype wont shoot him up to top5, if not too 3. You know that’s how it’s works every single year, the long anxious wait gets the hype train going and the rest is history.

Granted we’re 3 games removed from his bad outing, he answered a lot of questions when had for him vs northwestern. The first drive TD was everything you wanted to see. He checks so many boxes, and It’s like you were just waiting to see him do the things you think he can’t do - then he finally did it and I have a very hard time believing teams don’t take a chance on that
 
i'm reluctant to say that's going to be the case. I thought Teddy Bridgewater was a slam dunk as a highly rated QB prospect, and then he fell all the way to the end of the 1st round. By the end we all thought Lamar Jackson was going to go higher (not necessarily that he SHOULD go higher, but that he WOULD go higher). He fell all the way to the bottom of the 1st round. Both players, everyone knew about well over a year in advance. Both players had a large amount of hype a year in advance.

What do those two both have in common, that Dwayne Haskins has in common with them as well?

And no, don't say black skin. This isn't a race thing.
 
Last edited:
Haskins new head coach, Ryan Day, is a former NFL quarterbacks coach. I have to believe he’s told Haskins exactly what his weaknesses are and how they’ll be exposed at the next level. Years ago when rookies sat a year or so, no big deal. Now the rookie is going to play and I’m guessing Day has told Haskins he’s not ready yet. All speculation on my part.
 
But now Justin Fields has declared he's transferring from Georgia, and his top target is Ohio State. He's retained the same attorney that helped Shea Patterson petition for immediate eligibility. Ryan Day is being cited as the reason for Fields's choice.
 
i'm reluctant to say that's going to be the case. I thought Teddy Bridgewater was a slam dunk as a highly rated QB prospect, and then he fell all the way to the end of the 1st round. By the end we all thought Lamar Jackson was going to go higher (not necessarily that he SHOULD go higher, but that he WOULD go higher). He fell all the way to the bottom of the 1st round. Both players, everyone knew about well over a year in advance. Both players had a large amount of hype a year in advance.

What do those two both have in common, that Dwayne Haskins has in common with them as well?

And no, don't say black skin. This isn't a race thing.

Lamar Jackson case is a lil different bc he was largely touted as the 5/6 QB on peoples boards. But I surely see the bridegwater correlation - like Haskins will, he was in a horrible QB class
 
The connection between all three is sub-par arm strength. Their velocity was all right at the borderline of acceptable at the NFL level.

When that is going on...I don't know that I trust the guy to go high, especially when I've already seen scouts express their doubts about him several times in several different venues.
 
The connection between all three is sub-par arm strength. Their velocity was all right at the borderline of acceptable at the NFL level.

When that is going on...I don't know that I trust the guy to go high, especially when I've already seen scouts express their doubts about him several times in several different venues.

I know combine numbers can alter things but what’s your quick rundown of haskins strengths and weaknesses and what do you want to see be Washington and in pre draft tests
 
I am glad to see Francois rated pretty well.

He was put in adverse situations his entire time at FSU under both Jimbo and especially Willie. When you see him throw a ball, he has such a nice pass..he can really spin it. He has solid touch and we know he can take a beating. I would not be surprised to see him have a solid NFL career...at the very least as a solid back-up with the potential to do more.
 
I don't know where else to talk about this. He's an underclassman but he's not draft eligible.

Cole McDonald reminds me of a taller Will Grier with a legit NFL arm. So I guess not like Will Grier at all, lol.

Clearly has things to learn and polish up about his mechanics, accuracy and ball placement, sometimes stares down a receiver. But I like the way he's always moving his feet. I like his size and heft. I like the arm talent. He's a play maker.

He's another one that will probably be in the 2020 draft. Very interesting player. Very compelling the way he moves those feet.

 
I don't know where else to talk about this. He's an underclassman but he's not draft eligible.

Cole McDonald reminds me of a taller Will Grier with a legit NFL arm. So I guess not like Will Grier at all, lol.

Clearly has things to learn and polish up about his mechanics, accuracy and ball placement, sometimes stares down a receiver. But I like the way he's always moving his feet. I like his size and heft. I like the arm talent. He's a play maker.

He's another one that will probably be in the 2020 draft. Very interesting player. Very compelling the way he moves those feet.


That’s why I always say they need to fix the defense and shore up that oline 2019 and find a qb in 2020. There’s so many better options in 2020 than wasting a pick on one this upcoming draft. Herbert might be going back so the only ones worth drafting would be Murray if he suddenly decides to come play football and maybe Haskins.

I’m chomping at the bit waiting for Slimms 2020 underclassman qb group.
 
That’s why I always say they need to fix the defense and shore up that oline 2019 and find a qb in 2020. There’s so many better options in 2020 than wasting a pick on one this upcoming draft. Herbert might be going back so the only ones worth drafting would be Murray if he suddenly decides to come play football and maybe Haskins.

I’m chomping at the bit waiting for Slimms 2020 underclassman qb group.

I have a feeling Haskins, Herbert and Murray won’t declare but if they all do this could be a fun draft. If they don’t I agree with the premise of building from the inside out.
 
Back
Top Bottom