Slimm's 2020 Quarterbacks (seniors)

[ckparrothead]

From a pure skills stand point, meaning he doesn't have doesn't have an exceptional arm strength? I know the guy's not a 1st round pick but someone to develope in the 3rd to 5th round range.

Anywhere you guy's go to find tape on these players other than you tube, anyone doing cut-up's of players - watching full games at this point just to time consuming for me, may be someone can point me to a QB primer so I know what to look for.

Pure skills as in the entire array of weapons at a quarterback's disposal. Throwing ability is a huge part of that but it's not the only part of that. We're talking feet, release, mechanical consistency, velocity, touch, accuracy, placement, awareness, bandwidth, agility, speed, size, strength...all of it.

 

[gregorygrant83]

Burrow always makes me think of Jimmy Garropolo for some reason. In the right offense and with the right talent around him he'll be fine. I don't know that you can just plug him into any offense and hope for the same success. If he goes to the Bengals they're going to have to make some scheme changes, but they have some offense weapons to surround him with if everybody returns inn 2020.

 

[ckparrothead]

Burrow always makes me think of Jimmy Garropolo for some reason. In the right offense and with the right talent around him he'll be fine. I don't know that you can just plug him into any offense and hope for the same success. If he goes to the Bengals they're going to have to make some scheme changes, but they have some offense weapons to surround him with if everybody returns inn 2020.

Garoppolo is who I’d compare him to.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Yo slim shady, you ever going to update this to Burrow #1, otherwise it's embarrassing to have Herbert at #1 still.

These threads are no longer updated by me.

Just be careful tossing around words like embarrassing to describe anybody else's posts - coming from someone that touted Jake Fromm as much as you did. Anyone perusing your post history would find it astonishing that you would even continue to show up.

 

[jim1]

I can understand that. And I've been a detractor as well. But I have to admit, he scrambles around and makes plays that way pretty nicely. He's also been uncanny accurate this year. Both of those are premium tools to have in the tool box when he jumps to the pros. The more tools you have in the tool box, the ones you can rely on when plays aren't developing ideally, the more likely you are to survive until you really start to figure things out and develop command of the way NFL defenses play against your offense.

I've been softening on him. I liken him to Russell Wilson coming out of Wisconsin. For both guys, you can say that, if THIS is what the guy ends up being in the pros, then he'll be stupendous. But with both guys, there was a potentially fatal characteristic that could stand in the way of the player making that jump. For Wilson, it was his being 5'11". For Burrow, it's his total lack of an NFL level fast ball.

I said this back in 2012, this made Russell Wilson a boom-or-bust player. Either the height matters and he gets run straight out of the league (perhaps hit so hard he wakes up playing baseball, like Pat White)...or he's going to be the amazing QB he was at Wisconsin (and NC State).

The same is likely true of Joe Burrow. Either NFL defenders will start to crowd the plate on him, he won't be able to challenge them with his velocity, and the athleticism which has been such a weapon for him in college sees him ending up looking more like Ryan Fitzpatrick in the pros...or he'll find the right offensive system, and the short passing game that has become so prevalent in the NFL nowadays will allow for him to be the quarterback he is, another potential Drew Brees or Tom Brady. I don't see a ton of in-between.

I have to agree that Burrow doesn't show an NFL fastball- I wonder is it out of choice in that he is just exceedingly careful with his throws. I made a point of watching some more of Drew Brees- there are always outliers but Brees doesn't have much of a fastball either, offset by ludicrous accuracy and a top notch head for the game.

 

[ckparrothead]

I have to agree that Burrow doesn't show an NFL fastball- I wonder is it out of choice in that he is just exceedingly careful with his throws. I made a point of watching some more of Drew Brees- there are always outliers but Brees doesn't have much of a fastball either, offset by ludicrous accuracy and a top notch head for the game.

You're asking the right questions, for sure.

I don't think the fast ball is there, personally. Other guys, I'd accuse them of just not being comfortable with their fast ball (e.g. I think Will Grier's accuracy and spin break down when he really tries to rocket his passes, but he is capable of the velocity). With Joe Burrow, I don't think it's there at all.

Which might be OK because, as you say, Drew Brees rarely throws a fast ball. He's just insanely accurate and comfortable dropping the football perfectly into the soft parts of the coverage. Like you say, there are occasional throws where Brees shows more velocity than he does normally. Same with Tom Brady.

 

[Blake the great]

These threads are no longer updated by me.

Just be careful tossing around words like embarrassing to describe anybody else's posts - coming from someone that touted Jake Fromm as much as you did. Anyone perusing your post history would find it astonishing that you would even continue to show up.

I was higher on Fromm
Towards the beginning of the season and have admitted I was wrong about him, I have changed my tune about him.....At least I can admit I was wrong and not be afraid to change my thoughts on a player throughout a season.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I was higher on Fromm
Towards the beginning of the season and have admitted I was wrong about him, I have changed my tune about him.....At least I can admit I was wrong and not be afraid to change my thoughts on a player throughout a season.

Well, most people who lack confidence and conviction typically don’t have a problem admitting they were wrong. They expect to be wrong.

Why the hell would you admit you were wrong about Jake Fromm at this point? Has he played a snap in the NFL yet? Don’t admit you’re wrong and change your mind when you’re not even wrong yet. To the contrary - you’re afraid of looking like a fool for not subscribing to whatever groupthink is telling you to think.

I see people change their mind and flip back and forth on quarterbacks between quarters around here, much less games or seasons. They’re constantly anointing players or shredding them based on what happened with the previous pass. They just feel like they have to post something with every play.

If you have conviction one way or another on a guy, that’s all that matters. Stick to it.

Baker Mayfield’s fanboys had his Hall of Fame jacket ready halfway through his rookie season last year. Now look at him.

Guys are bumping threads on Drew Lock weekly trying to convince themselves they were right. Notice it didn’t get bumped after last Sunday though.

If I’ve said it once I‘ve said it 100 times - anyone giving Hot takes on rookie quarterbacks are the first ones you have to ignore. You have to let it play out to see who was right. Certainly the same for prospects who have yet to take a snap as a pro.

I don’t have a strong conviction yet one way or the other in terms of Justin Herbert vs Joe Burrow. The only conviction I had was the one I mentioned a few months ago - they’re the top 2 Senior quarterbacks in this class.

They both have different strengths and weaknesses that translate differently to different systems. The situations they land in will likely be the determining factor in how their careers plays out.

Relax and watch a little football. Good games coming down the pike.

 

[Feverdream]

The problem with 'having strong convictions' is that so many times, you are proven to be wrong.

Then, even worse, if you continue to make excuses after you've been proven wrong, well... then you are Jim Rome.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Anybody that evaluates 400 prospects every year is going to be wrong about some.

Nobody can get every prospect right. But if you’re right more than you’re wrong - you’re doing pretty good.

If you’re not wrong about prospects from time to time, you’re not doing it enough.

Admitting you’re wrong after you’ve been proven wrong is one thing. But you can’t admit you’re wrong before you e been proven wrong.

Is there a particular strong conviction regarding a specific prospect that’s eating at you?

 

[Feverdream]

Nope.

What really annoys me about this place has nothing to do with you.

It's the rudeness.

So many that post here mistake being nasty and rude for being witty and funny.

...and it's the sheer thoughtlessness that it takes to call a player who has worked his entire life to try to make it into the NFL, garbage. As if the poor s.o.b. hasn't accomplished so much more than any of the folks who post here.

A lot of the folks here are just hateful; and I'm ashamed that they are even Dolphins fans.

 

[Feverdream]

...and I realize that you read the 'you' in my earlier post as referring to you, Ted Slimm; this was not my intention. I mean 'you' as more of a 'one'.

 

[SCOTTY]

Nope.

What really annoys me about this place has nothing to do with you.

It's the rudeness.

So many that post here mistake being nasty and rude for being witty and funny.

...and it's the sheer thoughtlessness that it takes to call a player who has worked his entire life to try to make it into the NFL, garbage. As if the poor s.o.b. hasn't accomplished so much more than any of the folks who post here.

A lot of the folks here are just hateful; and I'm ashamed that they are even Dolphins fans.

I agree about the use of certain terms when describing athletes. Garbage is the perfect example.

 

[Lovethefish]

Anybody that evaluates 400 prospects every year is going to be wrong about some.

Nobody can get every prospect right. But if you’re right more than you’re wrong - you’re doing pretty good.

If you’re not wrong about prospects from time to time, you’re not doing it enough.

Admitting you’re wrong after you’ve been proven wrong is one thing. But you can’t admit you’re wrong before you e been proven wrong.

Is there a particular strong conviction regarding a specific prospect that’s eating at you?

With regards to Fromm- and admittedly he has struggled at times or regressed but I’ve seen some really great throws.
He was my QB2 before the emergence of Burrow.
I can count off top of my head 6-10 incompletions that were NFL type throws.
My biggest concern though is his definite issues with a wet ball. Hand size? Grip. Idk. I’m not sure this is correctable.

Also he seems to be shortarming the ball at times. Confidence issue? Idk.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

You're asking the right questions, for sure.

I don't think the fast ball is there, personally. Other guys, I'd accuse them of just not being comfortable with their fast ball (e.g. I think Will Grier's accuracy and spin break down when he really tries to rocket his passes, but he is capable of the velocity). With Joe Burrow, I don't think it's there at all.

Which might be OK because, as you say, Drew Brees rarely throws a fast ball. He's just insanely accurate and comfortable dropping the football perfectly into the soft parts of the coverage. Like you say, there are occasional throws where Brees shows more velocity than he does normally. Same with Tom Brady.

I don’t believe Joe Burrow’s arm is going to prevent him from accomplishing anything at the next level. His feel for the rush, ability to manipulate the pocket, and always being prepared to move and reset his feet are all too good.

I’ll choose these traits over a strong arm every single time.

Awsi mentioned it and I thought it was a great angle on his part to mention it - the NFL doesn’t punish arm strength the way it used to. Offenses and defensive rules have changed too much. The guys who are punished are the ones that struggle to be decisive and don’t know where to go with the football.