The dolphins are moving backwards.

[Fisticuff]

Originally posted by Section126
Brunnell is the best QB available in free agency..........PERIOD.

Find ONE that's better.

Peyton Manning.

ANYWAY, MB isn't good enough to start for a winning team. He would be best suited in Arizona where McCown can learn.

 

[musk]

tarheel:
you make good points in support of parmalee and i will take them into concideration.

what i do not agree w/ is you disagreing that we should use a 1st round on a ol or wr. while cheaper it is almost imposible to build a team around a less than solid quarterback. i point you to the current miami dolphins.

and i never said that this season was brunell's fault. he only played 3 games which he lost and was benched week 4. yeah he was injured but that was just the door needed for the coaching staff to bench him and bring in young talent. i dare you to look at jacksonville in a few years. if the front office makes the right moves personel wise they will be the panthers of this year (which many are saying already).

section126: why do we have to go to the free agent market? there is this thing called the nfl draft? why settle for a temp solution (if you can even call it a solution) instead of going for the long term solution. if i knew the dolphins would be superbowl calibure in 3 years because of their qb draft pick now. i would be happier than if they just traded for a washed up qb to just make it 2 more seasons. then what after those 2 seasons. we are back in the free agent market? what is this, team going to be? the qb grave yard?

 

[Section126]

There is the magic words..........................READY?


PEYTON MANNING!!!!!!!:band: :drinkers: :rocker: :bandwagon :hump: :dance: arty:

 

[Section126]

You do both............

 

[musk]

Originally posted by Muck


On the contrary, I feel you have not proven why Brunell would be such a bad choice, aside from false information and W/L records. Tell me why he would not be an upgrade to what we have now.



false information? throw out stats for a second. he was benched because of a rookie. injury? yes. but injury to make him sit the whole season? no. remember, a rookie. tell me, do good quarterbacks get benched for rookies? do you have a nice story for that one?


Carolina has arguably the best defensive line in the NFL. Surely they would fair well against New England's Pro Bowl-less offensive line. So why did Carolina's DL get so thoroughly dominated on Sunday?? How come they were completely worn out in the fourth quarter?? How come Tom Brady was largely untouched throughout the game??

Again, it's not about having the absolute most talent. It's about having talented players who step up when the stakes are high and believe in the team concept....combined with leaders on both sides of the ball.

carolina had the best front 4 yes. but a front 4 that was not expecting antwan smith to rush for as many yards as he did w/ as many carries as he did. im not going to surf for stats and crap but i do believe thats the most the pats have rushed all season. if not then its one of the highest. simply put the panthers gameplan was the exact gameplan the pats were expecting. its not about having the most talent? explain, joe montana, barry sanders, jerry rice, and yours truely dan marino. are you saying they didnt have some of the most talent in their positions? i can go more.

 

[musk]

stop saying peyton manning. he isnt going anywhere. he will stay in indy. he is off the subject. his brother on the other hand....

 

[TarHeelPhinfan]

Originally posted by musk
tarheel:
you make good points in support of parmalee and i will take them into concideration.

what i do not agree w/ is you disagreing that we should use a 1st round on a ol or wr. while cheaper it is almost imposible to build a team around a less than solid quarterback. i point you to the current miami dolphins.

and i never said that this season was brunell's fault. he only played 3 games which he lost and was benched week 4. yeah he was injured but that was just the door needed for the coaching staff to bench him and bring in young talent. i dare you to look at jacksonville in a few years. if the front office makes the right moves personel wise they will be the panthers of this year (which many are saying already)...

Musk,

I don't disagree with you that we need a solid QB. I'm just not sold that a Rivers will be the answer. He is, arguably, only the 3rd best QB right now. I think the real issue here is whether we want to make a run with whatever talent we have on the team now (that means drafting OL or WR early) or plan to build a team for a run 2 years from now (that means rolling the dice on Rivers or mortgaging our future drafts to trade up for Manning or Rothliswhateverhisnameis). This team will likely be much different, personnel wise, in 2years and that might be a good thing!

 

[musk]

alright, i have spent an amazing amount of time on this post and have yet to see someone say "mark brunell will be a good addition to the dolphins because" without using the word fiedler. i dare someone to be that bold.

i have had my coaching arguments commented on and they have changed my mind. however no one has taken the plunge into the heart of my argument which is mark brunell.

 

[musk]

well ncfan made a good argument against rivers. and i am not saying it has to be rivers. it should just be something offensive when our 1st round pick comes up.

some 1st round senarios:
all qbs are taken and fitzgerld is left. draft fitzgerld
a respective qb is left when we pick. then take the pick
if the top 2 arent left maybe a o-lineman?

 

[dolfan06]

Originally posted by musk
well ncfan made a good argument against rivers. and i am not saying it has to be rivers. it should just be something offensive when our 1st round pick comes up.

some 1st round senarios:
all qbs are taken and fitzgerld is left. draft fitzgerld
a respective qb is left when we pick. then take the pick
if the top 2 arent left maybe a o-lineman?

offense is the #1 priority!

 

[Fisticuff]

Originally posted by musk
stop saying peyton manning. he isnt going anywhere. he will stay in indy. he is off the subject. his brother on the other hand....

The question was, who's a better QB in FA or something like that.

I answered the question with the truth.

 

[Gladsadmad]

Originally posted by musk
alright, i have spent an amazing amount of time on this post and have yet to see someone say "mark brunell will be a good addition to the dolphins because" without using the word fiedler. i dare someone to be that bold.

i have had my coaching arguments commented on and they have changed my mind. however no one has taken the plunge into the heart of my argument which is mark brunell.

You say without mentioning Fiedler? Isn't that the whole point of talking about acquiring a new QB? To find one that is better than the previous one? Nobody thinks that Brunell is one of top 5 QB's in the NFL. Is that what you're trying to prove..that he isn't one of the elite? No one will argue that. Miami won't be able to acquire a top 5 QB, but they certainly can get a better QB than they've had. If Fiedler had a winning record despite his propensity for INT's (1 per game on avg)..it's safe to assume that a better QB would have an even better record..at least in theory. Here goes anyways...Mark Brunell will be a good addition to the Dolphins because...He's smart with the ball.

Isn't that a good enough reason?

In Brunell's last 18 games over the last 2 seasons he has thrown only 7 INT's.

In Brunell's previous 18 games, he threw 14 INT's...does that mean he's getting better with age?

As far as why he was benched..you have a nice point about that except for one thing. If he was an elite QB, he would've started the whole season. He's not an elite QB...no one should argue that. It's obvious that JAX wanted to give Leftwich a shot because they're rebuilding. Leftwich has more potential at this point in his career. He could be better than Brunell ever was. That still doesn't make Brunell a sub-standard QB.

 

[Muck]

Originally posted by musk
false information? throw out stats for a second. he was benched because of a rookie. injury? yes. but injury to make him sit the whole season? no. remember, a rookie. tell me, do good quarterbacks get benched for rookies? do you have a nice story for that one?

Yes, false information. As I told you before, Mark Brunell was not benched for lack of talent or skills. Jack del Rio simply decided that it was in the best interest of the franchise to let the future of the franchise play. Future = Bryon Leftwich.

I don't understand why you keep saying the opposite. Especially when you claim to know what's going on with the Jaguars.

carolina had the best front 4 yes. but a front 4 that was not expecting antwan smith to rush for as many yards as he did w/ as many carries as he did.

This is a laughable statement. Do you think any team expects to allow more yards than they anticipated going into a game??

Antowan Smith rushed for as many yards as he did because the Patriots offensive line (WITHOUT Damian Woody) dominated the Carolina defensive line.

im not going to surf for stats and crap but i do believe thats the most the pats have rushed all season. if not then its one of the highest. simply put the panthers gameplan was the exact gameplan the pats were expecting.

While gameplan is ALWAYS a factor, no gameplan was going to change the fact that Carolina got manhandled up front. And that allowed Antowan Smith to get to the second level and Tom Brady to sit back and let his receivers destroy the zone coverage.

its not about having the most talent? explain, joe montana, barry sanders, jerry rice, and yours truely dan marino. are you saying they didnt have some of the most talent in their positions? i can go more.

Obviously not. Otherwise New England wouldn't have won the championship for the second time in three years (because according to you, they're not that good offensively).

You're contradicting yourself here. On page one of this thread, you stated the Patriots (aside from Tom Brady) are not much different from the Dolphins on offense. I disagreed, challenging you at least twice to name one Dolphins offensive lineman who's better than New England's (still waiting).

I'm really lost as to what point you're trying to make with the Joe Montana, Barry Sanders, Jerry Rice, and Dan Marino references. Barry Sanders never won a championship. Neither did our Dan Marino. Like Brunell of late, they rarely had much of a team around them. ....which goes back to the overriding point I've been trying to make.

Now Montana and Rice, they had a great supporting cast (which included each other). One player doesn't get it done. You need a team. And they were a dynasty.

 

[dolfan06]

Originally posted by Muck


Yes, false information. As I told you before, Mark Brunell was not benched for lack of talent or skills. Jack del Rio simply decided that it was in the best interest of the franchise to let the future of the franchise play. Future = Bryon Leftwich.

I don't understand why you keep saying the opposite. Especially when you claim to know what's going on with the Jaguars.




This is a laughable statement. Do you think any team expects to allow more yards than they anticipated going into a game??

Antowan Smith rushed for as many yards as he did because the Patriots offensive line (WITHOUT Damian Woody) dominated the Carolina defensive line.



While gameplan is ALWAYS a factor, no gameplan was going to change the fact that Carolina got manhandled up front. And that allowed Antowan Smith to get to the second level and Tom Brady to sit back and let his receivers destroy the zone coverage.



Obviously not. Otherwise New England wouldn't have won the championship for the second time in three years (because according to you, they're not that good offensively).

You're contradicting yourself here. On page one of this thread, you stated the Patriots (aside from Tom Brady) are not much different from the Dolphins on offense. I disagreed, challenging you at least twice to name one Dolphins offensive lineman who's better than (still waiting).

I'm really lost as to what point you're trying to make with the Joe Montana, Barry Sanders, Jerry Rice, and Dan Marino references. Barry Sanders never won a championship. Neither did our Dan Marino. Like Brunell of late, they rarely had much of a team around them. ....which goes back to the overriding point I've been trying to make.

Now Montana and Rice, they had a great supporting cast (which included each other). One player doesn't get it done. You need a team. And they were a dynasty.

 

[Muck]

Originally posted by musk
alright, i have spent an amazing amount of time on this post and have yet to see someone say "mark brunell will be a good addition to the dolphins because" without using the word fiedler. i dare someone to be that bold.

i have had my coaching arguments commented on and they have changed my mind. however no one has taken the plunge into the heart of my argument which is mark brunell.

Here you have it.....again.......

Originally posted by Muck


If you can hear WQAM, you'll get even more of it. Brunell has the arm, the legs, and the ability. And he wasn't pulled in favor of Leftwich. He suffered an injury to his elbow. And it was a hinderence during the season. So the Jags decided....with that young team....to give their young gun a head start.

You can't judge a QB soley on their W/L record. In 15 seasons, Archie Manning never played on a team with a winning record. But he was one of the best QBs you'll ever see. He just had no talent around him.

You can argue the same for Brunell. The talent level around him simply fell off after the 1999 season. But you look at that 2002 season and you see that he threw 17 TDs and only 7 INTs in 416 attempts. That's one INT every 59 attempts.

That same year, Jay Fiedler threw two more INTs in 158 less attempts.

I think I made a pretty simple, yet effective argument. He is superior to what we have in every way.

And once again, I challenge you to tell me why Brunell WOULDN'T be a good addition/upgrade for us. W/L record and false information (I.E. benched because he was beaten out by a rookie) doesn't count. Counter the arguments I made above. :)