The dolphins are moving backwards.

[Noland]

minus, That's why Fiedlers always throws double the ints Brunell does and throws 5 to 10 less tds than Brunell because he is better than Brunell.

 

[musk]

i am not looking at jay's career. im looking at the present stage. you all are living in the past. yes brunell lead the jags to the afc champ. game. but that was like 6 years ago. a lot happens, especially to qbs, in 6 years.

brunell doesnt want to play infront of a highly picked qb because he knows he will lose his job again. what does that say to you? that says that he has no confidence in his skills. if his skills were that overwhelmingly good then he wouldnt care who was picked under him. 3-4 good years left? i am reminded of a man that thought he has 3-4 good years left. his name is emitt smith. where is emitt now? playing on a losing franchise and having sub par (emitt wise) seasons. brunell doesnt want to go out being remembered for losing his job to a rookie. its all pride.

 

[Disnardo]

Originally posted by Gladsadmad


You say without mentioning Fiedler? Isn't that the whole point of talking about acquiring a new QB? To find one that is better than the previous one? If Fiedler had a winning record despite his propensity for INT's (1 per game on avg)..it's safe to assume that a better QB would have an even better record..at least in theory.

I know what your trying to say. But using the example that your not a good QB if you tend to throw 1 INT per game on avg is not a good one. A good or great QB has to have the ability to throw more TDs in a game than INTs. This shows a nack for consistantcy..

Dan, the Man played in 260 games in his career and threw 276 INTs, but he threw 452 TDs to make up for his propensity to throw 1 pick a game (a TD ratio of 1.63 per INT per game)....

In Marino's last 4 years (60 games), he had 71 TD- 59 INT. I added this to avoid the issue that he had the majority of INTs on his last years.

IMO the bottom line is that JF is not a bad QB because he throws 1 INT per game, but because he is very inconsistant with his passes...

They need to get a starter that if anything would be consistant with his deliveries and not lead our WR to injuries...

 

[musk]

alright brunell stat hounds. heres one for you. in his last 3 games threw 2 tds. thats it in 3 games.

and galdadmad or whatever. be mad after he fails? how can you do that. that is so hipocritical. you support the hell out of him before hes here and you wont support him when he fails? give me a break. stay behind your man.

i will be happy because it will make a mockery out of the front office.

 

[Gladsadmad]

Originally posted by musk


and please DO NOT insult this conversation by bringing in rich gannon. he had the best wr group the nfl has seen in maybe the last 8 years. 2 potential hall of famers. give me a break. fiedler on 2 broken legs and a broken arm could have had a spectacular season w/ those 2.

brad johnson? yes got the ability to win games (like fiedler) but didnt he have the #1 defense in the league that shut down the nfl mvp your rich gannon in the super bowl?

You're missing my point Musk. I mentioned those names because you said Brunell was washed up. I said WHEN Gannon went to Oakland...I didn't say 4 years after he was ALREADY there. Gannon did NOT have the best WR's when he first went to OAK. No Rice..No Porter...hell, he didn't even have Garner. Would you have said he was washed up when he first went to Oakland ..yes or no?

Brad Johnson is the same thing. No McCardell...No Jurevicious. You say the defense was the key...that's true..but was he washed up? Are you saying that he was washed up when he went to Tampa?

 

[musk]

johnson is not that great of a qb. he wins games because of his d. its no secret. he has nice stats and he does well to put some points up but he could not carry that team if he had an avg defense. i dont know about gannon. i never watched him play before oakland. however i've seen brunell play and i've followed the last part of his jacksonville career. and i dont believe brunell is a gannon. and plus, gannon is gone after next season. hes getting old. so what are the raiders doing? going for young blood w/o wasting money in the free agent market for someone they know will be a quick fix. ie dolphins and brunell.

 

[Gladsadmad]

Originally posted by musk
alright brunell stat hounds. heres one for you. in his last 3 games threw 2 tds. thats it in 3 games.

and galdadmad or whatever. be mad after he fails? how can you do that. that is so hipocritical. you support the hell out of him before hes here and you wont support him when he fails? give me a break. stay behind your man.

i will be happy because it will make a mockery out of the front office.

You're not making any sense Musk...get it together man.

So you're saying that since I think that Brunell is an improvement over Fiedler and a player that can make this team better, I can't complain if he plays like crap? Is that what you're saying? And if I complain..I'm a hypocrite? How am I a hypocrite? Did I say that he was perfect? You know what? If does worse than Fiedler...then I'd be WRONG..that's it. Who said I won't support him..if he's the QB of the Dolphins..I will want him to succeed for the better of the team. I supported Fiedler for 4 years..but I also complained when he stunk up the joint..does that make me a hypocrite? I want him to succeed, but I'm not going to say he's the best if he throws 4 INT's...you make no sense.

By the way..my little forum name is Gladsadmad..is that too complicated?..you saw how it was spelled...you're better than that.

 

[Noland]

Jay Fiedler aint a bad QB I never doubted that but he is not a starter to me. Yes there has been games were it was his pretty throws that won the team a game but that only happens a couple times a year if that. But the only reason we did'nt have a different qb in the lineup it is dumb tail Wanny's belief in Jay(friends not business). We should have signed someone last year besides Griese but Wanny thought Jay was going to be the MVP this year.


To me with Brunells threat down field (which I said aint the most important) mobility accuracy on the run decision making to me is what we need. IMO he is better than Fielder even if he has lost a step better skills and ability to lead a team I am all for him being our starter next year.

Go Rick

GO Dolphins!

 

[Muck]

:rofl: Sorry, but Tim Brown and Jerry Rice have been over the hill for years. They're so dominant that they managed 4-for-26 yards and 6-for-60 in the last two meetings with Miami. Surely the greatest receiving group in the last eight years could do better than that. Jerry Porter?? A combined 2-for-36 in both games.

And who was there starting before Rice?? I can't even tell you. Was it Andre Rison?? You're way off there man. Gannon was legit. And for you to simply disregard his play as a fluke doesn't do well for your credibility. But whatever, this is a "hate" board and you're looking down upon us.

My Rich Gannon?? What the heck are you talking about?? And what does Tampa Bay's win over Oakland have to do with Rich Gannon making the most of his shot at 34 and threatening Dan's record at 37??

The man can win. Do you realize that Brunell hasn't had the luxury of Jimmy Smith since 2002?? That's right, the man was suspended the first four games of 2003. Care to name Brunell's daunted receving corps the three games?? We'll just have to agree to disagree on why Brunell didn't play last year.

Finally, what is the quick fix you're talking about?? Who the heck is even insinuating that?? You're arguing with yourself here.

 

[Muck]

Originally posted by musk
brunell doesnt want to play infront of a highly picked qb because he knows he will lose his job again. what does that say to you? that says that he has no confidence in his skills. if his skills were that overwhelmingly good then he wouldnt care who was picked under him. 3-4 good years left?

Or, more likely, it could mean that he doesn't want to be put behind the 8-ball from the get-go.

He's being realistic. You are not. You think that the Phins would keep Phillip Rivers down 3-4 years regardless of whether or not Brunell was playing well?? You spend a #1 pick and #1 money, you're going to want to see that investment thru.

 

[Muck]

Originally posted by musk
i will be happy because it will make a mockery out of the front office.

Well that's about all I need to see.

You can't be a fan of the team if you revel in its failures.

Put on the flamesuit buddy. It's coming.

 

[Gladsadmad]

Originally posted by musk
johnson is not that great of a qb. he wins games because of his d. its no secret. he has nice stats and he does well to put some points up but he could not carry that team if he had an avg defense. i dont know about gannon. i never watched him play before oakland. however i've seen brunell play and i've followed the last part of his jacksonville career. and i dont believe brunell is a gannon. and plus, gannon is gone after next season. hes getting old. so what are the raiders doing? going for young blood w/o wasting money in the free agent market for someone they know will be a quick fix. ie dolphins and brunell.

So, are you're saying that Brad Johson was washed up when he went to Tampa? If so, then I hope that Brunell is washed up too. Johnson had a great season in 2002..22 TD's 6 INT's. The Tampa defense didn't throw the passes.

You still don't get my point about Gannon. I'm not talking about the Gannon of today. You said that Brunell is washed up...right? I asked you if you would've considered Rich Gannon washed up when he went to the Raiders. I'm not asking you to compare the two players. It's a simple question..was Gannon washed up when he went to Oakland? If you believe that he was..then that would prove a point that you can't always look at the age of the player to determine his future.

Brunell could very well stink up the joint, but QB's like Gannon and Johnson have proved that older QB's can still excell in the right situation. In other words, I hope you're wrong for the Dolphins sake. If you're right then the Dolphins will stink for a while...but you'll be happy that you were right.

 

[musk]

alright i am taking some personal shots because i am begining to getting frusterated w/ the lack of understanding on this forum. after looking at brunell's stats i can see where all this love comes from. he puts good numbers. i will admit that he is very smart w/ the football which fiedler is not. however, look at the w-l column. that is where it counts. look at injuries and the amount of concusions hes had (thats all i hear about from him).

i used to hate on fiedler all the time. regardless of sucess. UNTIL the redskins game where he WON that game for us. thats right, won that game. something brunell hasnt done since 02.

my main argument is that miami should not waste time in the free agent market for a qb. especially one as old as brunell. if he was 4 years younger id say it was a great move. thats when brunell was still winning games. but time has pased. i say leave fiedler in. hire a great qb coach (which may be fiedler's problem). upgrade the line in the free agent market and get some young blood for the qb position. yes i know the draft hasnt taken place yet but remember the dolphins are having some serious cap issues.

this is seriously my last post. this has encompased my whole day and if i leave this post there will be 8 more postings about why brunell is the greatest option the dolphins have as far as qbs go.

dolphin fans are extremely fickle. if you never travel outside the state of florida to a team w/ deep football tradition (chicago, green bay) you will never understand what true fans are about. the bears fans knew kordell was a bad move and they were all smart enough to see that grossman was going to be the future. they love their team even if they go 3-13.

regardless of how brunell does the dolphin fans will be in this same situation in 3 years. brunell will retire/die and we will be stuck w/o a leading sucessor. yes, the draft hasnt happened yet. but why waste time in the free agent market if you know you are looking for a new qb in the draft. i hope im wrong. i hope that the dolphins get brunell, he is awesome and they get a young qb who will be marino like in 2 years. man i hope that is the case. however, the front office seems to be making "popular" decisions. 1) marino 2) brunell. and they arent the right ones.

wayne is a good business man. he wants fans to be excited for the next season so he sells seats. that is why he tried to bring in marino and now brunell. now fans will have hope and buy more tickets. and you are all buying right into it. wayne isnt dumb. and is looking to make a profit (along with making a good team).

like i said, i hope i'm wrong. but i am afraid that i will be right. and whoever called me shortsided has not even read my posts. all my posts talk about 2-3 years down the road. what, you want me to concider the next decade? give me a break.

this post is dead to me as far as responding. you you wish to futher this conversation feel free to personal message me and i will respond.

and for all of you brunell supporters out there, when/if he does bad next season, dont hop on the brunell sucks bandwaggon. stick with your man. thats the problem w/ you guys. you dont stick with your man. fiedler isnt the best thing in the world but hes what we have at this moment. hell the city of miami cut marino's head off after every loss. the fans ran him out. not wand. the fans. and we are talking about a hall of fame qb. the media was feeding on him like a pack of wolves. its the dolphins fan way of living. love them when they are good and hate them when they mess up.

 

[ZOD]

Originally posted by Muck


Well that's about all I need to see.

You can't be a fan of the team if you revel in its failures.

Put on the flamesuit buddy. It's coming.

 

[Gladsadmad]

It was a fun discussion..Thanks Musk..I'm done with this thread too :)