The OFFICIAL draft Cam Newton Thread!!! | Page 9 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The OFFICIAL draft Cam Newton Thread!!!

Canadi-Phin said:
Agreed. No argument. But losing one player should not make you lose a game. Look at the Packers last night. Woodson down, Driver down and still win. I know that's NFL compared to College but you know what I'm getting at. Bama's d has star power all over the place not just one guy.
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Losing one player isn't what made Bama lose the game.. read the post again.
 
I am enjoying this thread as much as any in a long time. We have the two camps, split pretty evenly. But, I notice, everyone agrees that they could be wrong either way. It just shows how scary and difficult it is to project the quarterback position. I mean, really scary.

This might be a good thread to look at in 5 years, like the one from 2005 that someone trotted out recently about Aaron Rodgers. We should have an archive where we bring out a discussion from a few years ago to see who said what in real time. Now that would be interesting reading. I know I would be scared to read what I might have said.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Where exactly did I ever insinuate that ANY prospect can't develope?

Any team that takes Cam Newton and expects him to come in and be a franchise quarterback is going to be cleaning out their front office in 3 years.

I'd take a shot on Cam Newton around pick #50... that's how I've always felt about it and it won't change.
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I wouldnt take Cam Newton in the 7th round. Waste of time, waste of pick. Cam Newton blows and will have no success in the league.
 
WVdolphan said:
I wouldnt take Cam Newton in the 7th round. Waste of time, waste of pick. Cam Newton blows and will have no success in the league.
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I don't know about that. He isn't worth a 1st round pick. Absolutely not. But if hes there in the 3rd/4th round, I'm picking him up to develop him.
 
Austin Tatious said:
I am enjoying this thread as much as any in a long time. We have the two camps, split pretty evenly. But, I notice, everyone agrees that they could be wrong either way. It just shows how scary and difficult it is to project the quarterback position. I mean, really scary.

This might be a good thread to look at in 5 years, like the one from 2005 that someone trotted out recently about Aaron Rodgers. We should have an archive where we bring out a discussion from a few years ago to see who said what in real time. Now that would be interesting reading. I know I would be scared to read what I might have said.
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Where's that thread?
 
ckparrothead said:
I don't think Newton had any reason to stay in school. He won a National Championship and he is going to be drafted very highly. Rising above Blaine Gabbert would absolutely not surprise me and it's the reason I've been criticizing Gabbert for his recent decision not to throw at the Combine. He seems to think his position as #1 QB is secure, but it's not, and he needs to do EVERYTHING he can to secure it. I would not be surprised to see Newton rise above him, nor would I be surprised to see Cam Newton going #1 overall. He's a better prospect than Mike Vick was, he's a better prospect than Vince Young was. He has a skill set that probably has never been seen before. Daunte Culpepper was not as quick as him when it comes to making moves behind the line of scrimmage to get free or pressure. Nor was Akili Smith nearly as athletically compelling.

The biggest criticisms of him are mere satellites to an analysis of his skill as a quarterback. And honestly those particular avenues of critique (finding guys that fit the classic profile, four year starters, pro style systems, guys with perfect off field records, etc) have a dubious record in recent years when it comes to figuring out who is going to make it in the NFL and who is not. The NFL is changing. There's no use denying it.

Spread QBs are succeeding, because Spread concepts are all around the NFL. To deny that would be taking a blind eye. Bad character and low work ethic people are winning games, as well as competing in and winning Super Bowls and Conference Championships. Quarterbacks are protected more than ever, wide receivers are protected more than ever, and defensive backs are restricted in their physical coverage more than ever. The shotgun is more popular than ever. The teams that are winning the Super Bowl are passing the ball more than ever. The Saints won the Super Bowl last year passing the ball 41 times compared with 16 runs. The Packers just won the Super Bowl passing the ball 42 times compared with 11 runs from James Starks. More QBs finished the season with 90+ passer ratings than ever before in the history of the NFL. More of the screens that people are so casually tossing out the window as "not counting" are being thrown by NFL teams, than ever before. More of the first or second reads that some people also toss out the window so casually are being thrown than ever before. People around the New England program have said that Tom Brady knows where the football is going before the snap on about 80% of passes.

Keep holding onto Jurassic profiles and requirements of the QB position if you like...I still believe many of those things are important. Cam Newton is the first real option/running quarterback that I've ever liked for the 1st round, and he's also the first one year starter that I've ever liked for the 1st round. I'm not displaying any kind of pattern of bias. I'm just recognizing trends and recognizing talent, doing my usual investigation and coming to an opinion.
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I don't disagree with much of this at all. Im aware of what spread concepts are used in the NFL, how much the shotgun is used, and how the rules make it easier for QB's to succeed compared to only a decade ago.

You're not going to find a QB prospect with the perfect "profile" very often.

What I think is that Cam Newton's QUARTERBACK skills are getting vastly overrated.
 
That thread is interesting but it would be more interesting if it were actually a popular thread back in 2005 and had more debate and participation, etc.

I was a big Rodgers supporter, liked him a lot better than Alex Smith, couldn't understand why he made his fall down the Draft board. I didn't necessarily thump for him at #2 overall, because I didn't value the QB position the way I do today. I was more neutral on that pick than anything, wasn't really sold on anyone Miami could take. My favorite running back was Cadillac Williams. My favorite quarterback was Aaron Rodgers. I'd have probably been OK with Braylon Edwards.
 
ckparrothead said:
I don't think Newton had any reason to stay in school. He won a National Championship and he is going to be drafted very highly. Rising above Blaine Gabbert would absolutely not surprise me and it's the reason I've been criticizing Gabbert for his recent decision not to throw at the Combine. He seems to think his position as #1 QB is secure, but it's not, and he needs to do EVERYTHING he can to secure it. I would not be surprised to see Newton rise above him, nor would I be surprised to see Cam Newton going #1 overall. He's a better prospect than Mike Vick was, he's a better prospect than Vince Young was. He has a skill set that probably has never been seen before. Daunte Culpepper was not as quick as him when it comes to making moves behind the line of scrimmage to get free or pressure. Nor was Akili Smith nearly as athletically compelling.

The biggest criticisms of him are mere satellites to an analysis of his skill as a quarterback. And honestly those particular avenues of critique (finding guys that fit the classic profile, four year starters, pro style systems, guys with perfect off field records, etc) have a dubious record in recent years when it comes to figuring out who is going to make it in the NFL and who is not. The NFL is changing. There's no use denying it.

Spread QBs are succeeding, because Spread concepts are all around the NFL. To deny that would be taking a blind eye. Bad character and low work ethic people are winning games, as well as competing in and winning Super Bowls and Conference Championships. Quarterbacks are protected more than ever, wide receivers are protected more than ever, and defensive backs are restricted in their physical coverage more than ever. The shotgun is more popular than ever. The teams that are winning the Super Bowl are passing the ball more than ever. The Saints won the Super Bowl last year passing the ball 41 times compared with 16 runs. The Packers just won the Super Bowl passing the ball 42 times compared with 11 runs from James Starks. More QBs finished the season with 90+ passer ratings than ever before in the history of the NFL. More of the screens that people are so casually tossing out the window as "not counting" are being thrown by NFL teams, than ever before. More of the first or second reads that some people also toss out the window so casually are being thrown than ever before. People around the New England program have said that Tom Brady knows where the football is going before the snap on about 80% of passes.

Keep holding onto Jurassic profiles and requirements of the QB position if you like...I still believe many of those things are important. Cam Newton is the first real option/running quarterback that I've ever liked for the 1st round, and he's also the first one year starter that I've ever liked for the 1st round. I'm not displaying any kind of pattern of bias. I'm just recognizing trends and recognizing talent, doing my usual investigation and coming to an opinion.
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Come on, CK. When I asked if it would shocking to see him go #1 (considering everyone had taken for granted Luck at #1), you said it would be! I'm just messing. You bring up a ton of great points. Ten years ago, I wouldn't like the idea of drafting Newton in the 1st . . . Five years ago, I probably wouldn't. In today's NFL, based on what I've seen from him, no spot in the 1st RD is too high. There isn't a more talented player in the draft, and he plays the most important position in football. I think his athleticism tempers the potential for him to be a flat-out bust. At worst, I see a QB who is good enough to take a great team to the SB (M. Vick). At best, I see a QB who can absolutely carry almost any team with moderate talent to the SB any given year.

For a team that doesn't have a QB, I love that risk/reward.

Also, Slimm, I think I remember you saying you loved Sanchez despite his one year of starting experience. Sanchez pretty much replicated Booty's success at USC. I remember you favoring Sanchez because he played in a "pro style" offense. Correct me if I'm wrong on this. But, if I'm looking at a 1-year starter, I'd rather have a guy who carried his team to a National Championship - and has an embarrassment of physical tools - than a guy who couldn't take one of the most talented teams in the country to the title. Factor in the SEC/Pac 10 credentials, and I don't see how Sanchez is a comparable prospect to Newton - let alone a better one.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Losing one player isn't what made Bama lose the game.. read the post again.
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Read your post. Each team had lots of issues. Auburn in the first half, Bama in the 2nd half. Dropping balls, having fumbles and losing hurt players is part of football. Alabama has more talent on that team then any in the country and probably the best coach, though it pains me to say it. Give Cam some credit, he beat a great Alabama team. Yes his Defense did tons. 9 times out of 10 Alabama wins that game, they have more talent. Auburn had 2 guys who are top 3 in talent win them that game. Fairley on D and Newton on O.

Trust me when I say I trust your evaluation on QBs almost all the time. You and Hooshoops, ck, Austin, Boomer, and Robert are the reason I even come on this board. You knowledge is awesome. I just think that with the NFL changing as CK just mentioned perfectly that this kid may have what this team needs. A playmaker at the QB position. I just imagine him having the work ethic to get his body in great shape unlike Russell will translate to having that same work ethic on film study and perfecting his craft as a QB. To have the threat of him running, so the D needs a spy. The threat of Marshall who you need to double, and Bess killing people out of the slot. He adds a dimension which opens lots of doors for us if he is the guys I hope he is. Key word Hope. Plus if we can add a running game to all this that is what a great Offense looks like. You try man up and he sees the Dbs backs, and bam he's down field for 20. Keep a spy in, one safety deep. Marshall one on one easy. Bess, one on one easy. You throw some zone at him with some blitzes like the JEts, you better get him down because if not he's gone or he's hitting an open Fasano over the middle because your afraid of Bess or Marshall. THis is what I think of when we draft a guy like Newton. Right or wrong, who knows until we see him. I don't think he will make it to 15 anyway.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
Come on, CK. When I asked if it would shocking to see him go #1 (considering everyone had taken for granted Luck at #1), you said it would be! I'm just messing. You bring up a ton of great points. Ten years ago, I wouldn't like the idea of drafting Newton in the 1st . . . Five years ago, I probably wouldn't. In today's NFL, based on what I've seen from him, no spot in the 1st RD is too high. There isn't a more talented player in the draft, and he plays the most important position in football. I think his athleticism tempers the potential for him to be a flat-out bust. At worst, I see a QB who is good enough to take a great team to the SB (M. Vick). At best, I see a QB who can absolutely carry almost any team with moderate talent to the SB any given year.

For a team that doesn't have a QB, I love that risk/reward.

Also, Slimm, I think I remember you saying you loved Sanchez despite his one year of starting experience. Sanchez pretty much replicated Booty's success at USC. I remember you favoring Sanchez because he played in a "pro style" offense. Correct me if I'm wrong on this. But, if I'm looking at a 1-year starter, I'd rather have a guy who carried his team to a National Championship - and has an embarrassment of physical tools - than a guy who couldn't take one of the most talented teams in the country to the title. Factor in the SEC/Pac 10 credentials, and I don't see how Sanchez is a comparable prospect to Newton - let alone a better one.
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The truth is as much as I think the NFL has changed, I probably would have loved Cam Newton as a prospect 5 years ago. I knew why I hated Vince Young. I know why I disliked Mark Sanchez. I knew why I didn't believe in Vick. Newton has some similarities to them on the negative side, but also positives that those guys did not have.
 
Canadi-Phin said:
Oh and you too J
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Hey, thanks. I don't lump myself in with the likes of the aforementioned posters at all. I'm much newer to the whole thing. I haven't logged the hours they have or done the legwork. My prospect analytical skills are still very much a work in progress. It's still something I'm getting into - whereas, I consider them in it.
 
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