the official senior bowl week discussion thread... | Page 9 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

the official senior bowl week discussion thread...

Brandon Weeden was always going to be the best QB in Mobile this week. I fail to realize why that's a revelation. Especially in this setting. Weeden can flat out spin the football, I don't know anyone that said he couldn't.

Not to mention, he's competing against QB's that were always either completely undraftable in my opinion (Kellen Moore, etc.) or sytem QB's like Nick Foles who's always had trouble pulling the trigger. Ryan Lindley has accuracy issues and is just a streaky quarterback in general. Russell Wilson is a 5'10" quarterback who'll probably make a roster somewhere and might make a decent 5th/6th round pick. Kirk Cousins is going to fool a lot of people down in Mobile this week. His decision making in games and penchant for throwing into the worse coverages possible against good defenses is there over the past 3 years for anyone that took the time to watch.

As I said before, it's just an underwhelming group at the Senior Bowl this year in general outside of the defensive line prospects, and a few good players sprinkled in here and there at RB, TE, LB and DB.



Relax. We all know how much you love Brandon Weeden. It's perfectly clear. We get to find out how good all these guys are going to be in the NFL where Big-12 defenses don't exist.

He's a good quarterback prospect. What exactly is it that you want us to do?

I didn't realize this was a message board that consists of only two people and therefore if I'm just going to say something you agree with I shouldn't bother. There ARE other people here, ya know. They don't all agree with yours and my opinion on Weeden.

---------- Post added at 05:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:23 PM ----------

A thought on Weeden's age and career length:

I recently read and article where Tom Brady stated that he wanted to play until he's 40. Trent Dilfer went on to say that usually the first thing that goes with a QB's age is his legs. He can't get his legs moving to drive the ball like a QB should. Brady is working to keep his legs in top shape so he can play at a reasonable high level until the age of 40.

Weeden doesn't have the wear on his legs that a usual college QB does because he spent a few years in baseball. Who's to say that Weeden can't play until he's 40? Assuming he's your starter this year (not out of the question) then if he plays until he's 40 then that's around 10 years as a franchise QB. Is that any different than drafting a 22 year old, developing him for 2 years and then having him playing until 36 or 37?

Good point.
 
yeah i think its fair to say that when tannehill went down brandon weeden was gonna be the run away best looking qb at the senior bowl...i expected more from lindley and i expected to hear about his rocket arm but weedens done in this setting pretty much what most expected...show off that arm and the fact that he can make every throw in the nfl...i still think he's not getting into round 1 though despite all the momentum...i just can't get over the age keeping him out of contention for the first round...but thats just me...pick 50-75 imo
 
Just for the record (again)... The age issue has never really been a huge one for me. If Weeden can last 8 years, he's already played roughly 2.5 times longer than the average NFL career.

I don't completely brush it off as a non-factor like his fanboys, but it's not what my immediate concern is regarding Weeden.

I have trouble selling myself on Big-12 quarterbacks, period.


Brandon Weeden is a good quarterback prospect. As a matter of fact, there's not a Big-12 QB I've liked more than Weeden... and that includes "Jesus in Cleats" himself.

I'd look at him if he's there when I go on the clock in the 2nd round. That's the extent of my enthusiasm for Weeden... and I think it's fair.
 
Just for the record (again)... The age issue has never really been a huge one for me. If Weeden can last 8 years, he's already played roughly 2.5 times longer than the average NFL career.

I don't completely brush it off as a non-factor like his fanboys, but it's not what my immediate concern is regarding Weeden.

I have trouble selling myself on Big-12 quarterbacks, period.


Brandon Weeden is a good quarterback prospect. As a matter of fact, there's not a Big-12 QB I've liked more than Weeden... and that includes "Jesus in Cleats" himself.

I'd look at him if he's there when I go on the clock in the 2nd round. That's the extent of my enthusiasm for Weeden... and I think it's fair.

What does Weeden being a Big 12 QB have to do with anything? That seems like part of a an unimaginative methodology for rating Quarterbacks. Same as the "Tedford school" argument, on e that now has that produced one of the top 3 QBs in the league- Aaron Rodgers. I think that Weeden should be judged on his own talent and merits, plain and simple.
 
I don't recall ever saying the age is a non-factor. In fact I've gone to great lengths to try and accurately frame and quantify exactly what kind of factor it shoudl be in your grading. If I were just a "fanboy" saying it's not a factor, I'd never have done any of that.

I think Slimm has the right of it, otherwise, talking about Brandon Weeden's being in the Big 12. TALENT should always be the first and foremost question in your mind. The age runs a far second. It's a factor, but not as big a deal as MOST people are making of it.
 
What does Weeden being a Big 12 QB have to do with anything? That seems like part of a lazy and unimaginative methodology for rating Quarterbacks. Same as the lame "Tedford school" argument that produce one of the top 3 QBs in the league- Aaron Rodgers.

If memory serves me well, Alabama QBs have sucked wang for quite some time- Brodie Coyle, Jay something or another, the guy who the Jets drafted late last year, whateve his name is- I can't think of good Alabama QBs since Namath and Stabler.

But- if a really good Alabama QB came down the pipe- more power to him, I'd draft him in a heart beat. At Georgia Eric Zeir and that lefty they had, whatever his name is, sucking has no bearing on Matt Stafford being a stud- these school and conference theories as to QB rating strike me as foolish. I would have been THRILLED to see Weeden get a shot at LSU in the title game- they were one play, one yard short against ISU from making it happen, and that's a shame.

I'd be happy for you and Alabama winning the whole thing, by the way, but as a south Florida resident, the sheer douchebaggery of Nick Saban, the stench of that little weasel, lingers still. He's done a great job, no doubt, but only until he blows out of Tuscaloosa, too, will I be able to root for Alabama. It's not just how he blew out of town, it's that he's such an arrogant little piss ant of an ahole. Great coach, crappy human being.

Ugh.....i really like what Slimm offers to this forum. He is one of the best regulars in terms of draft analysis but you probably have just turned this thread into an extra five pages of an alabama pissing contest
 
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Ugh.....i really like what Slimm offers to this forum. He is one of the best regulars in terms of draft analysis but you probably have just turned this thread into an extra five pages of an alabama pissing contest

That's fair enough, I was ranting as per Saban, I'll modify it.
 
What does Weeden being a Big 12 QB have to do with anything? That seems like part of a lazy and unimaginative methodology for rating Quarterbacks. Same as the lame "Tedford school" argument that produce one of the top 3 QBs in the league- Aaron Rodgers.

If memory serves me well, Alabama QBs have sucked wang for quite some time- Brodie Coyle, Jay something or another, the guy who the Jets drafted late last year, whateve his name is- I can't think of good Alabama QBs since Namath and Stabler.

But- if a really good Alabama QB came down the pipe- more power to him, I'd draft him in a heart beat. At Georgia Eric Zeir and that lefty they had, whatever his name is, sucking has no bearing on Matt Stafford being a stud- these school and conference theories as to QB rating strike me as foolish. I would have been THRILLED to see Weeden get a shot at LSU in the title game- they were one play, one yard short against ISU from making it happen, and that's a shame.

I'd be happy for you and Alabama winning the whole thing, by the way, but as a south Florida resident, the sheer douchebaggery of Nick Saban, the stench of that little weasel, lingers still. He's done a great job, no doubt, but only until he blows out of Tuscaloosa, too, will I be able to root for Alabama. It's not just how he blew out of town, it's that he's such an arrogant little piss ant of an ahole. Great coach, crappy human being.


Alabama QB's have nothing to do with it. Alabama's brand of football is structured around a dominant, suffocating defense to complement a powerful running game. It's been that way for 100 years, and it'll never change. The offense at Alabama won't ever run through the quarterback position like it does in conferences like the Big-12, and to be quite honest, we wouldn't have it any other way. It's a tried and true method. Football isn't played in Tuscaloosa for the purpose of putting quarterbacks in the NFL. Nobody here cares about things like that.

Offenses in the Big-12 are run through the quarterback position, because the conference doesn't play defense. Every conference has their own unique identity. The Big-12's identity is finesse spread offenses/bubble screens/soft coverage in the secondary and no defense. The Big-12 is essentially C-USA with bigger stadiums and deeper alumni pockets.

The conference has never produced a legitimate NFL franchise quarterback since it's inception despite running the offenses through the quarterback position. That's not a methodology for evaluating quarterbacks, that's just a fact. When Big-12 quarterbacks face top notch SEC defenses, they get shut down. Everytime. There's a reason the Big-12 is 0-7 against the SEC in BCS bowls.

Furthermore, Tedford didn't produce one of the top 3 QB's in the league. Aaron Rodgers had to be "de-Tedfordized" in Green Bay for 3 years before he was even developed enough to be an effective starter because of the mechanics. The only reason Rodgers didn't bust like all the Tedford QB's before him was because he wasn't thrown in the fire too early with those mechanics like all the previous Tedford busts. Aaron Rodgers was closer to being cut at one point than he was to being an starting quarterback according to the very team that drafted him.... the Green Bay Packers.

Contrary to your notion that the style of play coming from a conference that fails to produce quality backup quarterbacks in the NFL, much less quality starters, is simply ignoring the similarities and styles of play that the Big-12 is infested with. Which is system quarterback after system quarterback that produce at the same rate. No matter if they're completely undraftable QB's from Texas Tech in Mike Leach's system, or #1 overall picks and Heisman Trophy winners from Oklahoma. It boils down to a lack of knowledge and understanding of offensive concepts if you choose to ignore it.

Lastly, I'm fairly certain that Bama has enough people to root for them as it is, I don't reckon your lack of support is something we're going to notice, Jim. In fact, we'd honestly rather south Florida residents like yourself just keep doing what your doing. There's nothing better than seeing your a**es get more chapped with every crystal football Coach Saban hoists.



Back to Weeden.....
 
I don't recall ever saying the age is a non-factor. In fact I've gone to great lengths to try and accurately frame and quantify exactly what kind of factor it shoudl be in your grading. If I were just a "fanboy" saying it's not a factor, I'd never have done any of that.

I think Slimm has the right of it, otherwise, talking about Brandon Weeden's being in the Big 12. TALENT should always be the first and foremost question in your mind. The age runs a far second. It's a factor, but not as big a deal as MOST people are making of it.

if it keeps him out of the frst round its as big deal as i've ever thought it was...that's all i've ever said...that it will keep him out of round 1 imo...nothings changed from me on that point...and i've said i think its crazy to use a top 10 pick on a 28 year old qb...stand by that also...

nothing against the player but i'm not ever using a top 10 pick on a 29 year old first year qb...that's just a no go for me...and i'll be shocked if any decision maker in the nfl ever does...
 
Alabama QB's have nothing to do with it. Alabama's brand of football is structured around a dominant, suffocating defense to complement a powerful running game. It's been that way for 100 years, and it'll never change. The offense at Alabama won't ever run through the quarterback position like it does in conferences like the Big-12, and to be quite honest, we wouldn't have it any other way. It's a tried and true method. Football isn't played in Tuscaloosa for the purpose of putting quarterbacks in the NFL. Nobody here cares about things like that.

Offenses in the Big-12 are run through the quarterback position, because the conference doesn't play defense. Every conference has their own unique identity. The Big-12's identity is finesse spread offenses/bubble screens/soft coverage in the secondary and no defense. The Big-12 is essentially C-USA with bigger stadiums and deeper alumni pockets.

The conference has never produced a legitimate NFL franchise quarterback since it's inception despite running the offenses through the quarterback position. That's not a methodology for evaluating quarterbacks, that's just a fact. When Big-12 quarterbacks face top notch SEC defenses, they get shut down. Everytime. There's a reason the Big-12 is 0-7 against the SEC in BCS bowls.

Furthermore, Tedford didn't produce one of the top 3 QB's in the league. Aaron Rodgers had to be "de-Tedfordized" in Green Bay for 3 years before he was even developed enough to be an effective starter because of the mechanics. The only reason Rodgers didn't bust like all the Tedford QB's before him was because he wasn't thrown in the fire too early with those mechanics like all the previous Tedford busts. Aaron Rodgers was closer to being cut at one point than he was to being an starting quarterback according to the very team that drafted him.... the Green Bay Packers.

Contrary to your notion that the style of play coming from a conference that fails to produce quality backup quarterbacks in the NFL, much less quality starters, is simply ignoring the similarities and styles of play that the Big-12 is infested with. Which is system quarterback after system quarterback that produce at the same rate. No matter if they're completely undraftable QB's from Texas Tech in Mike Leach's system, or #1 overall picks and Heisman Trophy winners from Oklahoma. It boils down to a lack of knowledge and understanding of offensive concepts if you choose to ignore it.

Lastly, I'm fairly certain that Bama has enough people to root for them as it is, I don't reckon your lack of support is something we're going to notice, Jim. In fact, we'd honestly rather south Florida residents like yourself just keep doing what your doing. There's nothing better than seeing your a**es get more chapped with every crystal football Coach Saban hoists.



Back to Weeden.....

First of all, as to my Saban comments- they were unnecessary and I deleted them. I always kind of liked Alabama- as to the Saban element I'll just let that be. As to Alabama and their recent and past success, more power to you. Having grown up in south Florida, I've spent plenty of time watching periods of dominance by UM, UF, FSU and the Gators, who crushed Alabama regularly if I recall correctly. The upshot of it all is that I really don't care, I was never particularly partial to any college team, it just doesn't matter to me. UF won 2 recently, the U, FSU- we've had plenty of championships that I really couldn't care less about- btw UM should have had one more but for the Ohio State fleecing. But again, no big deal, college football isn't particularly important to me. Unfortunately, because of the Saban connection, I find myself these days rooting against Alabama, but that's neither here nor there. I can assure you that Florida football fans have been equally ambivalent as to what the good people of Alabama thought of our teams over the decades of our dominance. As a side note, I did get a chance to meet Barry Krauss's parents a few times quite a few years ago, very nice people, from Pompano I believe.

As a Dolphin fan I am, by the way, very gratelfull to the Tide for Bob Baumhower, Dwight Stephenson and one of my all time favorites, Don McNeal.

As to the conferences- I'd have to revisit tape of Rodgers at Cal to see what mechanical changes, if any, have taken place. As with the Pac 10 when Elway and Aikman were there, I wouldn't judge those two guys by a lack of defense in that conference 30 years ago, nor am I disuaded froom being a huge fan of Weeden because of the same. Case Keenum, Timmy Chang, take your pick- stats do lie, some conferences to play better defense than others, I get that.

RG III lights it up in Weeden's conference- I like him, but I far from love him. I love Weeden's game, and I don't need to see him play an SEC team to confirm that. Everything clicks, starting with the absolutely stellar arm, the power, the accuracy, the size, the deceptive mobility, the character, the mental comprehension and approach to the game (as he's considered basically another offensive coach out there from what I gather).

It just works for me, from his quck feet and smooth movement in the pocket, his decision making, take your pick. It might not look quite as easy if he were playing in the SEC, I'll grant you that for sure, but Weeden's qualities would still shine through. No QB that I've seen in the SEC can touch him, with the possible exception of Tyler Wilson, who I like very much.

I would guess that the Senior Bowl will be a great opportunity for Weeden to dispell some of those "weak conference opposing defense" concerns, and my guess is that he'll do just fine. If I recall correctly Josh Freeman played in Weeden's conference- I like but don't love him, but seriously, there are only so many franchise QBs to go around. Peyton might be done, I like Matt Stafford quite a bit, Brady and Brees are Big 10 guys, but when all is said and done I'm not terribly concerned about the conferences in question- I'm concerned about the player. There are plenty of Chad Hennes for every Tom Brady, that's just how it goes. The conference doesn't make the player- an obvious assessment no doubt, but nonetheless true. For better or worse I'm jusging Weeden by what I see from him, not by the conference that he plays in. And what I see is a supremely talented QB who will be a steal, due to his age, in the second round if in fact he lasts that long.

So congrats to the Tide, they deserve it, and it is quite a feat for the state of Alabama to have both UA and AU win titles back to back, something that the people of Alabama can be proud of for sure. Saban has done one hell of a job over there, and despite my dislike for the guy, no one can take that away from him.
 
Slimm, CK, or anyone else for that matter, have any of you seen or heard anything about Sean Spence during either practice? It's not necessarily a good or bad thing I guess.
 
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yeah buddy...it is night and day the difference in the talent levels of the south roster vs the north imo...there are some really nice looking prospects on this south squad...coples ingram upshaw as advertised in one on one rush drills...ingram with a sick spin move on one...coples showing nice strength and more importantly solid hand use to get off the block in his pass rush...upshaw bull rush and then uses his hands to toss the lineman to the ground...cordy glenn massive guy with pretty damn good feet...joe adams looks damn good...there's some corner here named bentley who can play...laradius green the te separating out of his breaks...i'm liking what i see there...

sean spence looks awfully light to me...i'm thinking he's not a 3 down player in the pros... he looks like lovante david size wise but i think david is a much more instinctual lb...i like david a lot except for that size

south squad should roll on saturday...this is the kind of talent i was hoping to see
 
sean spence looks awfully light to me...i'm thinking he's not a 3 down player in the pros... he looks like lovante david size wise but i think david is a much more instinctual lb...i like david a lot except for that size

They are pretty much the same size & both played for Miami Northwestern during their championship run in high school. That's surprising, Spence is probably one of the smartest college LBs I've seen play, true leader, knows everyone's assignments, great character, good tackler.
 
i see real hand explosion and power on contact with upshaw coples and ingram...when they hit you they rock you back on contact...got to like that...best get off i see is upshaw followed by ingram and then coples...coples is just not all that first step quick off the snap...none of these guys imo have that elite get off of the ball...but man do they all pack a power punch on contact...

the concern for me with coples is because of that imo for a top 10 pick slow get off is he gonna be able to give you double digit sacks as a pass rusher...
 
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