the official senior bowl week discussion thread... | Page 12 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

the official senior bowl week discussion thread...

jim1 said:
And Rodgers- I doubt that it took 3 years to get the kinks out- he had to wait for Favre to wrap it up, he could have been ready to go much sooner.
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Either you didn't bother to read the article, or you're just being stubborn for the sake of being argumentative. This isn't debateable.



"When it's remembered where he was earlier in his career is almost unfathomable".....

"He was brutal every time out".....

"Until his 20th and final series.... Rodgers had not generated as single point. Sixteen possessions ended with punts, two on INT's, and one on a fumble"....

"If the #2 quarterback job had been awarded based on performance in training camp and games, it would have gone to Craig Nall hands down"....

"Against the Ravens, Rodgers threw an INT, fumbled twice and was sacked 3 times"....

"As the 2006 draft drew near, Rodgers told NFL Network that he had heard the rumors of the Packers possibly selecting a QB with the #5 selection in a move that would likely end his career in Green Bay. Ted Thompson, the General Manager who had drafted Rodgers with the 24th pick the year before, didn't rule it out".....

"18 personnel men wer asked to compare Rodgers against that year's QB pool led by Matt Leinart, Vince Young, and Jay Cutler. Not only did Rodgers not draw any 1st place votes, he had only one 2nd place vote, and three 3rd place votes. Eleven scouts put him 4th, and 3 others even had him behind Brodie Croyle and Charlie Whitehurst"....

"Working against drafting a QB was the grim reality that the Packers probably wold have been looking at a 4th or 5th round pick in exchange for Rodgers"....

"Mike McCarthy preferred Alex Smith to Rodgers even before the 2005 draft"....



That was Aaron Rodgers rookie season in a nutshell right there. Does that sound like a guy who was ready to go to you? Probably so...









Even in his 2nd season.... "Still, he was inconsistent in the offseason and only slightly improved in his second training camp"....


"He was very average in the 2nd exhibition game, not very good in the 3rd, and awful in the 4th"....

"In his only meaningful regular season appearance, Rodgers played the entire second half against New England. Once again, he played poorly, holding the ball for 3 sacks and missing several open receivers".....

"It looks like it will be a while, if ever, if he develops"..... (an AFC personnel director)

"After his second pre-season with the Packers, if they had released him, I don't know that anybody would have been shocked. I mean, he wasn't a very good player. He couldn't make a play".

"Once again, Ted Thompson said he wouldn't rule out drafting a quarterback heading into the 2007 draft".....



That's his 2nd season with the Packers in a nutshell. Sound like a QB who's ready to go with all of his kinks worked out to you? Again... probably so.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Either you didn't bother to read the article, or you're just being stubborn for the sake of being argumentative. This isn't debateable.



"When it's remembered where he was earlier in his career is almost unfathomable".....

"He was brutal every time out".....

"Until his 20th and final series.... Rodgers had not generated as single point. Sixteen possessions ended with punts, two on INT's, and one on a fumble"....

"If the #2 quarterback job had been awarded based on performance in training camp and games, it would have gone to Craig Nall hands down"....

"Against the Ravens, Rodgers threw an INT, fumbled twice and was sacked 3 times"....

"As the 2006 draft drew near, Rodgers told NFL Network that he had heard the rumors of the Packers possibly selecting a QB with the #5 selection in a move that would likely end his career in Green Bay. Ted Thompson, the General Manager who had drafted Rodgers with the 24th pick the year before, didn't rule it out".....

"18 personnel men wer asked to compare Rodgers against that year's QB pool led by Matt Leinart, Vince Young, and Jay Cutler. Not only did Rodgers not draw any 1st place votes, he had only one 2nd place vote, and three 3rd place votes. Eleven scouts put him 4th, and 3 others even had him behind Brodie Croyle and Charlie Whitehurst"....

"Working against drafting a QB was the grim reality that the Packers probably wold have been looking at a 4th or 5th round pick in exchange for Rodgers"....

"Mike McCarthy preferred Alex Smith to Rodgers even before the 2005 draft"....



That was Aaron Rodgers rookie season in a nutshell right there. Does that sound like a guy who was ready to go to you? Probably so...









Even in his 2nd season.... "Still, he was inconsistent in the offseason and only slightly improved in his second training camp"....


"He was very average in the 2nd exhibition game, not very good in the 3rd, and awful in the 4th"....

"In his only meaningful regular season appearance, Rodgers played the entire second half against New England. Once again, he played poorly, holding the ball for 3 sacks and missing several open receivers".....

"It looks like it will be a while, if ever, if he develops"..... (an AFC personnel director)

"After his second pre-season with the Packers, if they had released him, I don't know that anybody would have been shocked. I mean, he wasn't a very good player. He couldn't make a play".

"Once again, Ted Thompson said he wouldn't rule out drafting a quarterback heading into the 2007 draft".....



That's his 2nd season with the Packers in a nutshell. Sound like a QB who's ready to go with all of his kinks worked out to you? Again... probably so.
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And you're laying all of Rodgers' early struggles on Tedford's door? Most Qbs struggle the first couple of years, and my point is hardly to endorse Jeff Tedford. It was a good 2 or 3 years ago that Green Bay couldn't wait to get Favre out the door so they could get Rodgers starting. If that was in year three, there's nothing wrong with that. The point really is, Rodgers shouldn't have been discounted because of the whole Tedford thing- hindsite is as always 20/20, but history shows that Tedford or not, Rodgers is a stud QB, one of the three best QBs in the league today, maybe the best. So regardless what conference he played in, whose tutelage he was under, there you have it. He's an absolute stud now- you think Miami wishes now that they drafted him instead of Ronnie Brown? And those "experts"- where do they stand now on Leinart and Vince Young? I wonder...

As I said before, I hate the whole "hold the ball by your ear" nonsense- I'd prefer a much more intuitive and instinctive approach. If someone told me that I had to throw a football and not pat it before I threw that would drive me nuts. I never was a huge fan of Kerry Collins, but his motion issues were overblown, and Philip Rivers- deliveries don't come much lower and uglier than that, but he's a hell of a passer, exceedingly accurate. These guys, for the most part, should be left alone.


We'll see what happens with Weeden in the Senior Bowl. I just call them like I see them, and I haven't seen anyone better all year, and the conference issue matters not one iota to me. If we don't solve the QB issue this year, I'd probably be all over Tyler Wilson next year, and as to Joe Adams- dude's just a playmaker with big time speed and quicks.
 
slimm pretty much laid out there why i don't believe certain guys on this board who always say rodgers was "my guy" from the get go in that draft..there was nothing can't miss about aaron rodgers when he came out...

as for tyler wilson count me as a guy who was bummed when he didn't come out...him and barkley both stayin in school quite the bummer...i also like tyler wilson as the 3rd true qb in this draft had he come out with luck and barkley...

as for the canes they got another guy regis a dt i think his name is who i'm not a fan of either...i do think they have a edge rush prospect who came out early vernon i wanna say his name is who imo should have stayed in school but i find has some talent
 
jim1 said:
And you're laying all of Rodgers' early struggles on Tedford's door? Most Qbs struggle the first couple of years, and my point is hardly to endorse Jeff Tedford. It was a good 2 or 3 years ago that Green Bay couldn't wait to get Favre out the door so they could get Rodgers starting. If that was in year three, there's nothing wrong with that. The point really is, Rodgers shouldn't have been discounted because of the whole Tedford thing- hindsite is as always 20/20, but history shows that Tedford or not, Rodgers is a stud QB, one of the three best QBs in the league today, maybe the best. So regardless what conference he played in, whose tutelage he was under, there you have it. He's an absolute stud now- you think Miami wishes now that they drafted him instead of Ronnie Brown? And those "experts"- where do they stand now on Leinart and Vince Young? I wonder...

As I said before, I hate the whole "hold the ball by your ear" nonsense- I'd prefer a much more intuitive and instinctive approach. If someone told me that I had to throw a football and not pat it before I threw that would drive me nuts. I never was a huge fan of Kerry Collins, but his motion issues were overblown, and Philip Rivers- deliveries don't come much lower and uglier than that, but he's a hell of a passer, exceedingly accurate. These guys, for the most part, should be left alone.


We'll see what happens with Weeden in the Senior Bowl. I just call them like I see them, and I haven't seen anyone better all year, and the conference issue matters not one iota to me. If we don't solve the QB issue this year, I'd probably be all over Tyler Wilson next year, and as to Joe Adams- dude's just a playmaker with big time speed and quicks.
Click to expand...


The part you're not grasping is that if Rodgers had been allowed to play from day 1 before being corrected of his Tedford flaws, he WOULD be on his way out of the league right now, and another bust laid at the feet of Jeff Tedford.

He slid so far on draft day for a reason. NFL personnel people had grown wise the hard way, and began to legitimately develope a strong distaste for the fundamentals of Tedford coached quarterbacks. He didn't go to a bad football team like Matt Ryan or Peyton Manning and light it up from day 1. He went to a team that was already competing for superbowls before he got there and allowed to sit for 3 years and work on his flaws, while also maturing from a mental standpoint.


Tedford didn't "produce" the Aaron Rodgers of 2011. The Green Bay Packers produced the Aaron Rodgers of 2011. The only thing Jeff Tedford did was recruit Rodgers to Cal out of JUCO. Aaron Rodgers is the one that decided to supply the NFL draft with his skillset, flaws and all included in that package.

You think Aaron Rodgers is sitting for 3 years behind a Hall of Fame quarterback, soaking up a WCO in Miami if they had taken him with the 2nd overall pick in 2005? You think Aaron Rodgers was sitting there in the green room falling like a rock on draft day with "NFL MVP" tatted across his forehead?

This entire conversation is becoming a waste of time.



As for Phillip Rivers and his delivery, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. It doesn't matter how low your delivery is as long as the throwing elbow is at least shoulder height. What matters is that the arm gets full extension, it doesn't matter if it's sidearm, 3/4's, or over the top.

That's the problem with Brock Osweiler, and why the football doesn't come out of his hand right. He's so tall that he's able to get away with a low delivery, his elbow actually drops below his shoulder and he doesn't get full extension of his arm. It's why he doesn't spin the football cleanly, and the ball tends to die towards the end of it's flight.
 
hooshoops said:
slimm pretty much laid out there why i don't believe certain guys on this board who always say rodgers was "my guy" from the get go in that draft..there was nothing can't miss about aaron rodgers when he came out...

as for tyler wilson count me as a guy who was bummed when he didn't come out...him and barkley both stayin in school quite the bummer...i also like tyler wilson as the 3rd true qb in this draft had he come out with luck and barkley...

as for the canes they got another guy regis a dt i think his name is who i'm not a fan of either...i do think they have a edge rush prospect who came out early vernon i wanna say his name is who imo should have stayed in school but i find has some talent
Click to expand...

And which guys would those be? I certainly never was pounding the table for Aaron Rodgers pre draft, I hadn't seen enough of him, nor Alex Smith for that matter. The point is that he worked out exceedingly well, all perpheral, non essentisal issues aside. What was striking was how quickly, right before the draft ha began sliding, big time. Nothing of merit had really change in that short peiod of time iirc, but down he went.

As to Wilson coming out- I do think that he would have been the 3rd blue chip QB coming out in the draft this year if he entered:


Luck
Weeden
Wilson


Then Barkley down a notch form those three if he entered. I can get enthused about the arms of Luck?Weeden/Wilson. barkley's arm remains a yawn to me, much like what little I've seen of Matt Flynn. More of a pop gun than a cannon. Same for Matt Moore- I kind of like the guy, and he has his moments. He just doesn't really have the arm to play with the big boys. It's not a bad arm, but when you compare to Brady/Rodgers/Brees and in my eyes Weeden, it's just not the top notch arm you want in a franchise QB.
 
Guys,

somebody predicted 5 pages of a tete-a-tete, that looks like it was probably on the conservative side. Can you guys just agree to disagree? It's very interesting reading up to a point, but I think the rest of us passed that point already.

No offense intended.
 
Fin Thirteen said:
Guys,

somebody predicted 5 pages of a tete-a-tete, that looks like it was probably on the conservative side. Can you guys just agree to disagree? It's very interesting reading up to a point, but I think the rest of us passed that point already.

No offense intended.
Click to expand...


Someone help this gentleman with his mouse. He seems to be having difficulty finding his way into a different thread.

No offense intended.



In all seriousness I completely agree with you. I knew better.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
The part you're not grasping is that if Rodgers had been allowed to play from day 1 before being corrected of his Tedford flaws, he WOULD be on his way out of the league right now, and another bust laid at the feet of Jeff Tedford.

He slid so far on draft day for a reason. NFL personnel people had grown wise the hard way, and began to legitimately develope a strong distaste for the fundamentals of Tedford coached quarterbacks. He didn't go to a bad football team like Matt Ryan or Peyton Manning and light it up from day 1. He went to a team that was already competing for superbowls before he got there and allowed to sit for 3 years and work on his flaws, while also maturing from a mental standpoint.


Tedford didn't "produce" the Aaron Rodgers of 2011. The Green Bay Packers produced the Aaron Rodgers of 2011. The only thing Jeff Tedford did was recruit Rodgers to Cal out of JUCO. Aaron Rodgers is the one that decided to supply the NFL draft with his skillset, flaws and all included in that package.

You think Aaron Rodgers is sitting for 3 years behind a Hall of Fame quarterback, soaking up a WCO in Miami if they had taken him with the 2nd overall pick in 2005? You think Aaron Rodgers was sitting there in the green room falling like a rock on draft day with "NFL MVP" tatted across his forehead?

This entire conversation is becoming a waste of time.



As for Phillip Rivers and his delivery, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. It doesn't matter how low your delivery is as long as the throwing elbow is at least shoulder height. What matters is that the arm gets full extension, it doesn't matter if it's sidearm, 3/4's, or over the top.

That's the problem with Brock Osweiler, and why the football doesn't come out of his hand right. He's so tall that he's able to get away with a low delivery, his elbow actually drops below his shoulder and he doesn't get full extension of his arm. It's why he doesn't spin the football cleanly, and the ball tends to die towards the end of it's flight.
Click to expand...

So your point from that rather vague article, I take it, is that Rodgers had to be trained to adjust the holding point of the ball and stay in the pocket longer? I wouldn't exactly call that a masterpiece of an article. And somehow you think that I'm arguing that Rodgers was ready from day one? It used to be considered a five year maturation process for guys like Len Dawson. By 2008 Favre was being encouraged to leave Green Bay- you speak of it like there's not to be expected a learning curve to the position- of course there is. Look at the other QBs mentioned- Charlie Whitehurst- thanks to him and a blown 2nd round pick Seattle is now starring in "Desperately seeking a QB"; Brodie Croyle- skinny dude with two blown ACls- is he even playing now? Leinart- 'nuff said. His USC tutelage didn't help him make the cut. Vince Young- nope. If I were a betting man, looking at Rodgers and Cam Newton as rookies, my best guess is that Newton would have struggled mightily, as word had it that he could hardly read defenses at all. I'm shocked by how well he played, good for him. I thought that John Beck would be solid by year two- wrong again. But regardless of holding the football by the ear and whatever nonsense, Rodgers is what he is, and that his game needed some tweaking is, in hindsite, neither here nor there- as with most other rookie QBs, it was to be expected.

As toRivers, there is no secret. His elbow is low, the release point is low. What helps is that he's 6-5, that helps to offses the issue. I wouldn't care if he was 6-2, i'd just let him throw naturally if it were up to me.

The issue here really is Weeden- if you want to knock him due to the conference he plays in, have at it, I couldn't care less. I would take Weeedn in a heartbeat, Luck and Tyler Wilson, too, over a guy like Matt Barkley and not think twice about it. Because of talent, not because of any conference concerns. I wouldn't give a second thought to the Big 12 issue- peopple can go ahead and draft crap QBs from better conferences any time they like.
 
jim1 said:
And which guys would those be? I certainly never was pounding the table for Aaron Rodgers pre draft, I hadn't seen enough of him, nor Alex Smith for that matter. The point is that he worked out exceedingly well, all perpheral, non essentisal issues aside. What was striking was how quickly, right before the draft ha began sliding, big time. Nothing of merit had really change in that short peiod of time iirc, but down he went.

As to Wilson coming out- I do think that he would have been the 3rd blue chip QB coming out in the draft this year if he entered:


Luck
Weeden
Wilson


Then Barkley down a notch form those three if he entered. I can get enthused about the arms of Luck?Weeden/Wilson. barkley's arm remains a yawn to me, much like what little I've seen of Matt Flynn. More of a pop gun than a cannon. Same for Matt Moore- I kind of like the guy, and he has his moments. He just doesn't really have the arm to play with the big boys. It's not a bad arm, but when you compare to Brady/Rodgers/Brees and in my eyes Weeden, it's just not the top notch arm you want in a franchise QB.
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not you...
 
that kids lower half is rediculous...he's got a nose tackle lower half but with those great feet and that short area burst and acceleration...guys shouldn't move that well with legs like that...they're tree trunks

no wonder the guy musters up so much power at contact...

he flows laterally down the los and runs things down to the outside better than any stand up olb prospect in this draft...
 
Hey Slimm Janzen Jackson declared if you didnt know. Also, I found out he was moved to CB at McNeese. Had a few picks this year.
 
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