Tua Contract Negotiations Start
- Thread starter dolfan91
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lol……lol awwww **** that was funny
Mello Yello
Club Member
The obvious concern is that the good & bad of the Dolphins offense are two sides of the same coin, the failures of the offense to evolve and find a counterpunch being directly related to how unique the offense is and how that seems to work so well when things are all heading in the same direction.
Still, I think it's foolish to expect that a team will stay perfectly healthy. It's foolish to think good opponents will lay down. It's foolish to expect homefield advantage all the time. Miami's offense has to find a way to possess and move the ball more consistently when they're not playing crappy teams like the Panthers and Giants who give up 20-yd passes like they're going out of style or when they're not 100% healthy or when they're not at home in ideal conditions playing with very little on the line in September.
I expected a bigger emphasis to be placed on Miami getting back to its 70's roots when McDaniel came in. I expected more of the week-in, week-out physical rushing attack SF had developed. I expected Tua to be protected with that kind of offense the way that Russell Wilson was protected by Marshawn Lynch and the Seahawks offensive game-plans which allowed Wilson to consistently churn out low-volume, high efficiency production, occasionally being a hero in otherwise ho-hum performances.
I did not expect Miami to lean into this attempt to try and make Tua look like an MVP candidate and I worry that his physical limitations make that a bad long-term strategy. Yes, we'll whip up on the bad teams early in the season but will we actually be a force to contend with in Dec-Jan? What if we're simply a finesse offense that requires easy, chunk plays which typically aren't given up so easily by the better pass defenses?
To act like McDaniel and Tua have proven everything they need to in order to be considered "the answers" is too friendly to them IMHO. This offense was constructed to rehabilitate Tua as a franchise QB and it's certainly done wonders to lift his image, but it's not clear whether this offense has the juice to compete against the best teams in the biggest games. It's failed over a half-dozen times when given chances with performances that were frustratingly inept at times.
It needs to develop a counterpunch that it's had 2 years to come up with.
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There are a couple...interesting...leanings here. Artdnj's entire post started off by pointing out that the "plagued by injuries" label that Tua has is no more relevant to him than to Burrow or Lamar Jackson...and he's right. Quick, since Tua and Burrow were drafted, who's missed the most games due to injury? That one should be pretty easy. Burrow's missed 12 games due to injury. Tua's next though, right? Actually, Tua and Jackson have both missed 10 starts. So he has a legit point.
Regarding the coaching, that's also a legitimate point. Burrow has enjoyed the same HC and OC for his entire career. Jackson has had the same HC and 3 OC, with a nice stretch of continuity between 2019-2022. Tua's had 2 HC and 4 OC since he was drafted (and yes, I'm counting the co-coordinators as two people, because it was the dumbest thing in the history of OC outside of New England.) Is that the end-all be-all for judging QBs? Of course not. But dismissing it as old news and disregarding it entirely doesn't pass the sniff test either.
It's also kinda weird to me that you bring up Burrow's college success as a senior and give him props for coming back from an ACL injury in his rookie season, but don't mention how Tua was lauded as the best QB in college football from the time he came in at halftime for Alabama until he got hurt...or give props to him for coming back from a hip injury that was much murkier, uncommon and more severe than an ACL tear.
As far as this direct quote: "the fact that Miami was surely considering what options they'd have in replacing him and needed to go out and spend millions to build an unconventional offense around him is exactly what creates questions about a guys universal value...." This is what I was referencing earlier today. This is not a fact. It's actually borderline dishonest.
It's not an "unconventional offense built around him" or a "Tua-friendly offense." It's a variation on a Shanahan offense. Is Tua good at executing it? Yep. Would McDaniel go away from it if Tua wasn't the QB? Seeing as he came from and worked on a Shanahan-led staff and signed several Shanahan-coached players...I seriously doubt it. Let's not pretend that McDaniel hired Frank Smith just to create an offense just for Tua (you know, like Flores did when he hired Chan Gailey to cater to Fitzpatrick's strengths in 2020)...because that just ain't true. If anything, the only QB in this conversation who truly had an offense specifically designed to cater to his strengths, it's Lamar Jackson. Greg Roman doesn't get nearly enough credit for what he did for Jackson early in his career.
Finally, I have no idea what Tua would have done in a "non-Shanahan" offense in 2023. But neither do you.
Mello Yello
Club Member
Oh, no. Facts are facts. Tua got injured in every season from '18 - '22.
That's 5 straight years where he missed time, got pulled, was on the bench recovering or had his overall abilities significantly limited for some injury-related reason.
I'm sorry but, no, to act like Tua's injury history is the same as everyone else's is covering up reality. It's is a lie as far as I see it.
I agree but you're starting a different conversation.
Keep in mind that I wasn't attacking Tua. I was attacking the logic being used by a subset of his supporter(s). Your defending Tua doesn't really invalidate the point I was making before.
I fully agree that the Dolphins did no favors to Tua however they did supply with him a solid defense that made it relatively easy for him to achieve a .500-ish record. Had the team been out and out bad, Tua would've surely had a losing record in years 1 & 2.
Ugh.
I didn't say anything about Tua's injuries because I was speaking specifically about Burrow's accomplishments between '19 - '21. I don't think Tua factors into what LSU or the Bengals were doing in that stretch of time. My point was to make clear how knocking Burrow in an attempt to lower the bar for Tua isn't going to garner support.
This is actually hurting Tua's image btw, his supporters being so sensitive that compliments aimed in other directions are taken as insults to Tua.
No fan wants to feel like they have to be a homer in order to defend their team. We all want the team's success to stand on its own.
It's not a fact. It's inference.
If you're a team that drafts a QB and that QB isn't particularly great for 2 straight years you're going to be considering what options you have for the future outside of just that QB. Even we were questioning Tua coming out of 2021.
Again, if basic inference offends you, you're too sensitive.
Tua played NFL football in '20 and '21 in a "non-Shanahan" offense so....there's that!
And to argue that the Dolphins offense isn't pioneering some really innovative stuff that sets it apart is just ignorant.
I think the bigger question is why some feel the need to constantly defend anyone who's a Dolphin from any & all forms of comparison and critique. They're helicopter fans. That fanatical behavior only serves to irritate the more middle of the road fans who I'm quite confident are in the majority having seen a multitude of hyped-up players and coaches come and go, knowing that a bit of healthy skepticism is never a bad thing.
It ends up being the fans who feel it's their job to constantly defend the current regime who are the most annoying.
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Tuaffinity and Beyond
Active Roster
WaddleWaddle
Club Member
Honestly, what's your point?
Most fans couldn't care less about what the media thinks but it doesn't mean they can't acknowledge that the media treats Tua differently than other QBs. That is factual and is shown time and time again when someone like Herbert throws a pick to lose a game and you don't see a million articles or tweets about it the next day. You equate people questioning the media to being jealous and biased but why? I equate it to people catching on that most "experts" don't know much at all and their opinions aren't worth more than many posters on here.
You acknowledge there are many QBs who haven't won squat but are still praised because of their physical attributes but then you say it's pathetic and out of touch if a dolphins fan questions the media on this clear bias towards physical attributes. Tell me, how has Justin Herbert throwing the ball 80 yards helped him win games in the NFL?
QBs should be judged based on their play on the field and nothing else. I don't care if kyler Murray can run fast if he plays like **** and can't win games, I dont care if Herbert can throw far if he constantly comes up short in the clutch. If you rank someone higher because of physical attributes when the other QB has clearly been better on the field the last two years then why should we care what you think?
Mello Yello
Club Member
My point is that if we actually lived in a world where people didn't care you wouldn't have typed all the rest of that paragraph.
If fans crave national media attention and widespread affection--which they obviously do based on the tear-jerk sob-stories we always get here--it would've been better (according to the apparent values of that fan) to have drafted Justin Herbert who's much more physically imposing than Tua and will thus predictably garner more acclaim from the national media.
Is that what you think? Probably not. It's not what I think either but for those fans who crave the national media's favor that's exactly what their logic says we ought to do--whatever appeases the media.
If fans actually support Tua then maybe those annoying fans should stop reporting to us what the national media thinks? God forbid we be strong enough to just tune it out, eh?
I'm not saying people should fawn over Lawrence or Herbert because of how they look. I'm not saying that a world based on image is a good thing but I am 100% sure that regardless of whether anyone likes it, that is modernity. We do 100% live in that world. It matters how you look and how you can be sold to the viewing public. Bigger, faster, stronger and better-looking sells so the media will predictably push it.
Thus, any fan who complains about the popularity of other QBs and how much attention they get based on measurables or hype or whatever is just being naive and sounds out of touch.
Should Tua have been judged for the way he played in '20 and '21 or was that unfair?
I agree with what you're trying to say but what happened on the field is by definition in the past and that's not where next years money is being spent.
A player's future will always be about projecting his past performances and physical potential into some new regime. Thus we'll always live in a world of record-keeping, analysis, projection, speculation and fantasy.
The value of someone's input should be a measure of what they're saying with their reputation being built on what they've said in the past. I'm sure we both agree.
I don't want to hear from some idiot fan who flips on Shannon Sharpe and complains that he's not being positive enough about Tua. If that fan needs Shannon Sharpe's approval, that's their business. I don't tune in for that kind of nonsense so I blame the idiot fan who does for being entirely irrational.
What is "the media" anyway except a catch-call term for a near infinite number of voices, right? And I'm sorry, but there are a ton of pro-Dolphins and pro-Tua voices. I say, if ESPN isn't friendly enough to Tua for your taste, then turn it off and stop complaining.
Many fans crave the national attention but they criticize the national spotlight for being stupid and brainless when it doesn't focus in on them. It's complete hypocrisy.
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Is this thread still related to a contract? I bid 400 quatloos on the Tua.
Mello Yello
Club Member
Everything's related to everything.
I bid 4,000 baht on Tua.
Are you actually trying to create an army of straw men here? You’re countering at least 4 points that I DIDN’T EVEN MAKE.
However, I’m glad that you’re aware of the difference between a fact and an inference.
You absolutely made this statement: "the fact that Miami was surely considering what options they'd have in replacing him and needed to go out and spend millions to build an unconventional offense around him is exactly what creates questions about a guys universal value."
You’re stating something as a fact that simply isn’t one.
FinFaninColorado
Active Roster
About damn time JWS!Ok in that case I fully concur
Kidding aside, I will always love our Fins and I am good with Tua but player and teams have limits, can’t print money like another entity we know….i actually think Tua will be reasonable.
Actually, the textbook definition of fan is:
"A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause."
Or:
"A fanatic is a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics."
I couldn't find a definition for helicopter fan, but fan definitely fits what you're describing. Based on that, I'm currently not a fan, but a critical follower, and I'll take it. Still love this team and it will ALWAYS be my team, but I don't believe they're beyond reproach and/or worthy of eternal optimism.
Need to see something of substance to step back into that fan definition...and by that I don't mean a wildcard or playoff win. I need to see consistent excellence from HC on down. Beating up on scrubs and losing to quality teams doesn't fit.