Tua played at 60% last year

[circumstances]

60% was an estimate by a guy who holds Tua's legs while he does situps. I'll put my faith in the Dolphins' coaching staff and trainers.

K.

Whatever the reality was percentage-wise in 2020, I'm looking forward to much closer to his new-100% in 2021.

 

[The Goat]

Really? What's the difference? And we aren't talking about 100% of anything. The report says 60%. It's absurd to think Flores would start Tua if he was 60% of anything unless he had no choice.

Absurd? M'kay.

Regarding the difference? How about you listen to Tua himself about how he feels now vs. how he felt last year.Or maybe listen to the players talking about him.

 

[The Goat]

60% was an estimate by a guy who holds Tua's legs while he does situps. I'll put my faith in the Dolphins' coaching staff and trainers.

Yes, completely devalue the guy who works closest with him because it doesn't fit your narrative.

I'll put my faith in ALL the reports, and not ignore the ones I don't like.

See? I can do that, too.

 

[Mach2]

I've refrained from comment in this thread, because the basic premise is not measurable in terms of a mathmatical percentage.

There is no doubt in my mind that Tua was not in top form. Also, how the different circumstances affected other things, whether physical, mental or whatever in a cumulative manner becomes unclear and undefinable.

What does "60%" even mean? It's just a number, I assume, with no actual basis.

Is his 40 time or speed 40% faster? I seriously doubt it.

Is he lifting 40% more, or doing 40% more reps than before? Possible I suppose, but how would that translate to his play in a measurable way?

Is his range of motion 40% better? Again, I doubt it, but it is likely better, at least in his hip.

Does Tua just "feel" like this is where he's at from a mental standpoint?

I guess my point is putting a definitive percentage measure on something like this is meaningless, to the point I'm surprised his guy even did it.

 

[volk]

i personally think the 60% thing is an excuse to quell some of the noise about his struggles...i mean do you think flores is playing a rookie qb at 60% health who was coming off a major hip injury over a 100% fitzpatrick? i just find that hard to believe...flores wouldve had the information from the medical staff and even if he wasnt a full 100% i think he was alot closer to 100 than 60...or flores isnt putting him on the field

i think he just struggled as a rookie, i expect him to be overall better, i expect him to be stronger, be in better game shape, be more comfortable moving around and have a better grasp of the offense as well as having better chemistry and timing with his pass catchers

i dont get why people cant just admit the guy struggled, its not saying he is going to suck and be a bust to admit he had a tough time...but to point to the team record with him in, or his 4th quarter qbr is just rationalizing at this point...we all saw the offense sputter for 3 quarters a game, we saw tua get replaced vs the raiders cuz he wasnt getting it done

theres pro-tua people who try to find a silver lining in anything to cling to hope as they make excuses for what we all saw

then theres anti-tua people who considered him a bust the day he was drafted, they will be screaming to bench him everytime he throws a pick and want to see him fail so they can say i told you so, nothing will ever be good enough for this group as they wanted to draft herbert or trade away the next 3 drafts to move up for burrow

then theres a 3rd group of people who can admit he struggled and wasnt good enough but also understand he was a rookie who was coming off injury, the team had alot of injuries, and the sample size is small...this group knows its too soon to write him off and they are rooting for the guy to succeed, i think more people fall into this group but the people in the other 2 are the ones making new tua threads every 45 minutes to push their extreme opinions

Great post. I am a realist. I have been a fan of the team and have not missed a single game in over 20 years. I feel like I can be fairly objective on most players, and especially rookies. I make mistakes at times, and sometimes I overvalue a veteran who I believe has played very well over his career, but when it comes to the QB position, I feel I have seen enough to know great QB play from poor to mediocre play. I also feel I take a reasonable approach to evaluating the QB play as it relates to everything else around him. By way of example, I am one of the few who felt RT was a much better QB than he ever got credit for here, as we never provided great weapons for him, and our biggest sin was always fielding a dreadful OL for him. So far, that assessment seems to have been born out. I am also happy to admit I have made a mistake when I am wrong. Gesicki is a great example of this. I really felt he was not going to come around at the NFL level and was really disappointed in his early performances. Since then, he has actually made great strides. Happy to have been wrong, because if a player gets better, it only can mean good things for the team.

So far, nearly everything I worried about Tua prior to the Dolphins drafting him has been correct. The injury did have an impact on him. He did struggle with the playbook. He did get injured again during the season and missed time. He struggled throwing into tight spaces, etc. Having said all that, the uphill battle he faced was monumental, and he has shown to have high character and work ethic. If any QB out there is willing to do whatever it takes to improve, Tua seems to be the guy for it.

All that said, the hater and fanboy sides of the issue do get tiresome. The posted article means nothing. Tua played at 60% of what? It's meaningless, because no one knows what 100% is for Tua post injury. Truthfully, no one knows what a pre-injury Tua's 100% would have been at this level, either. We will only know when he plays and shows us. I hope for great things, but I know that if he doesn't show significant improvement over last year, my hope will dwindle significantly. I can't see Miami giving him more than three years to show he is the guy.

 

[The Goat]

I've refrained from comment in this thread, because the basic premise is not measurable in terms of a mathmatical percentage.

There is no doubt in my mind that Tua was not in top form. Also, how the different circumstances affected other things, whether physical, mental or whatever in a cumulative manner becomes unclear and indefinable.

What does "60%" even mean? It's just a number, I assume, with no actual basis.

Is his 40 time or speed 40% faster? I seriously doubt it.

Is he lifting 40% more, or doing 40% more reps than before? Possible I suppose, but how would that translate to his play in a measurable way?

Is his range of motion 40% better? Again, I doubt it, but it is likely better, at least in his hip.

Does Tua just "feel" like this is where he's at from a mental standpoint?

I guess my point is putting a definitive percentage measure on something like this is meaningless, to the point I'm surprised his guy even did it.

It's entirely arbitrary. But, to be fair, I think it was done just for the purpose of perspective.

 

[volk]

I've refrained from comment in this thread, because the basic premise is not measurable in terms of a mathmatical percentage.

There is no doubt in my mind that Tua was not in top form. Also, how the different circumstances affected other things, whether physical, mental or whatever in a cumulative manner becomes unclear and indefinable.

What does "60%" even mean? It's just a number, I assume, with no actual basis.

Is his 40 time or speed 40% faster? I seriously doubt it.

Is he lifting 40% more, or doing 40% more reps than before? Possible I suppose, but how would that translate to his play in a measurable way?

Is his range of motion 40% better? Again, I doubt it, but it is likely better, at least in his hip.

Does Tua just "feel" like this is where he's at from a mental standpoint?

I guess my point is putting a definitive percentage measure on something like this is meaningless, to the point I'm surprised his guy even did it.

Couldn't agree more. It is a fluff piece designed to prop Tua up, which really isn't needed. Tua will get his chance to show everyone what he is really capable of this year and the result of that play will ultimately determine his status. He doesn't need more hype, in fact, the hype is why he is controversial.

 

[bdizzle00]

Absurd? M'kay.

Regarding the difference? How about you listen to Tua himself about how he feels now vs. how he felt last year.Or maybe listen to the players talking about him.

You're right. Tua had an almost career ending hip injury, and the Dolphins took him at #5 overall then started him when he was only at 60%. Makes perfect sense. If you believe that, then you believe the coaches and trainers put his entire career in jeopardy unnecessarily.

 

[FanMarino]

If he was 60% then he should have sat the season out. From a physical and team perspective. For that reason alone I don't believe that 60% comment. Just me maybe but you generally don't throw in a rookie at any position if that comment is fact.

 

[The Goat]

You're right. Tua had an almost career ending hip injury, and the Dolphins took him at #5 overall then started him when he was only at 60%. Makes perfect sense. If you believe that, then you believe the coaches and trainers put his entire career in jeopardy unnecessarily.

Are you capable of acknowledging that 100% healthy and 100% recovered are not the same thing?

For example, say a player returning from an ACL injury in year 1 is fully healthy, but not as explosive as he was pre-injury for an additional 6-8 months.

This isn't conjecture. This is fairly well-known to be a consideration in rehab.

If you're not capable of acknowledging that, you should probably just go ahead and put me on ignore. It'll be better for both of us.

 

[bdizzle00]

Yes, completely devalue the guy who works closest with him because it doesn't fit your narrative.

I'll put my faith in ALL the reports, and not ignore the ones I don't like.

See? I can do that, too.

Then you obviously are saying that Flores and Grier are incompetent, correct? Why else would they play ANY player who was only at 60%, much less their franchise QB coming off a horrific injury while they still had another starting QB on the roster.

 

[bdizzle00]

Are you capable of acknowledging that 100% healthy and 100% recovered are not the same thing?

For example, say a player returning from an ACL injury in year 1 is fully healthy, but not as explosive as he was pre-injury for an additional 6-8 months.

This isn't conjecture. This is fairly well-known to be a consideration in rehab.

If you're not capable of acknowledging that, you should probably just go ahead and put me on ignore. It'll be better for both of us.

So, are you saying that Tua was 100% healthy but 60% recovered? Or was he 100% recovered and 60% healthy?

 

[The Goat]

Then you obviously are saying that Flores and Grier are incompetent, correct? Why else would they play ANY player who was only at 60%, much less their franchise QB coming off a horrific injury while they still had another starting QB on the roster.

Dude, if you're going to try to post leading questions as blatantly evident as that, try it with pets or infants first.

100% healthy and 100% recovered ARE NOT THE SAME THING.
100% healthy and 100% recovered ARE NOT THE SAME THING.
100% healthy and 100% recovered ARE NOT THE SAME THING.
100% healthy and 100% recovered ARE NOT THE SAME THING.

I mean...I could try it with different capitalization if you feel it would help. If it was SAFE to play Tua, then I don't have any issue with it. It was.

But ignoring the subsequent thoughts and statements that he recovered more after the season was over are just obstinate, pigheaded and stupid.

 

[The Goat]

So, are you saying that Tua was 100% healthy but 60% recovered? Or was he 100% recovered and 60% healthy?

100% healthy and 60% recovered.

Here's an example for you of how this works.

"Rehabilitation from ****** surgery usually takes about a year. In some cases, up to 2 years are needed for athletes to return to their previous level of ability. Other types of surgery may not need this much rehabilitation."

That's a snippet on an arm injury. One can be fully healthy, but not fully recovered.

 

[djphinfan]

I believe the trainer is talking about the apex of the players ceiling..

Obviously there is training to rehab from an injury..However during that time you are not making gains from your starting point, all your training is about the injury and trying to get back to your starting point.