****Tua Tagovailoa super thread****

[Eesti]

How would we be mortgaging the future? Bro, we have 13 picks in this year's draft, 5 picks in the first 2 rounds.

We've also got 2 first round picks next year.

Our future will be fine if we have to trade up.

That's exactly right but any team that trades up ahead of Miami WILL be mortgaging their future. Now that I think about it, I think that's a huge risk for everyone that's not Miami.

On a side note:

The other part of Tua declaring (and his speech) that caught my attention is where he says "Doctors cannot predict the future".

What if the doctor told him "You may never be the same player again"? In that case why would he return to college? What if they decided the gamble was too big and they decided to declare to get that guaranteed money? Going back to college would just further expose that the hip is bad and ruin ANY chances he has at millions of dollars.

 

[Travis34]

The question nobody has answered me yet is: if Tua is the next best thing since sliced bread why would the Bengals pass on him and settle for the "horrible and awful" Burrow?

Because burrow is a less risky pick

And who has called burrow horrible / awful?

 

[phins_4_ever]

It has only been answered a thousand times in this site - Tua is injured (there is risk with the pick) he may need a full season - (they have. A cheap owner they don’t have a cache of picks if things go sour) he is not a local boy and the flavour of the day (he is the forgotten one) Tua didn’t win the Heisman Right?

There are streams and streams of this very answer on this site - I thought you were a mod?

Do you have an inferiority complex? Me being a mod has nothing to do with my question. The board reads the same for everybody unless you think a moderator has some secret vision and can read secret texts.

Since you are so infatuated with my mod status and you seem to refer to that almost every single time I suggest that you read the TOS

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In regards to the rest of the post:
No, it has not been answered a thousand times. Tua is good enough to sell the house to move up in the draft but not god enough to be picked by the Bengals?

Let me ask you this: if we had the #1 pick in this year's draft who would you pick? Burrow or Tua?

 

[phins_4_ever]

Because burrow is a less risky pick

And who has called burrow horrible / awful?

Who would you pick if we were picking #1? Burrow or Tua?

 

[rent this space]

So far I got:
- the Bengals are stupid
- his hip

That does not explain why everybody thinks the Dolphins should sell the house and move up to #2 if possible to grab him. So his injury is good enough for a #2 pick but not a #1? That does not make any sense especially if we consider to give up a lot of draft picks to move up.

I believe most here are saying stay at #5, but if the Dolphins are convinced he's the one, they should do whatever it takes.

 

[phins_4_ever]

I think your hate for Tua is clouding your judgement...

The actual argument for moving up to #2 is to make sure we secure either the QB1 or QB2 in this draft regardless of who you think is 1 or 2... Because the gap between QB1 and Q2 is minimal compared to the gap between QB2 and QB3... Thats all there is to it...

My hate? I don't hate players (unless they are named Brady). And I think I was always pretty clear on Tua in the past. Just because nobody can give me a reasonable answer unless it is "Bengals are stupid" don't make that my fault.
And no it is NOT about QB1 or QB 2.

Here is a much more simple question: If we had the #1 pick in the draft who would you pick? Tua or Burrow?

 

[meatpardle]

No, it has not been answered a thousand times. Tua is good enough to sell the house to move up in the draft but not god enough to be picked by the Bengals?

That question has been answered multiple times today. If the Bengals rate Burrow as QB1 they take him #1. Burrow and the Bengals are now irrelevant, so Miami's actions are not related to what the Bengals have done, or Burrow, or whether Burrow is better than Tua, they're related to how badly they want the best QB left on the board and what the risk there is that someone else trades ahead of us.

"Tua is good enough to sell the house to move up in the draft but not god enough to be picked by the Bengals?" - why can't both be true? It's possible for two teams to rate QBs differently. Or maybe Tua is just the second best QB in the draft, that doesn't mean he isn't still worth targeting.

 

[Kamelion4291]

So far I got:
- the Bengals are stupid
- his hip

That does not explain why everybody thinks the Dolphins should sell the house and move up to #2 if possible to grab him. So his injury is good enough for a #2 pick but not a #1? That does not make any sense especially if we consider to give up a lot of draft picks to move up.



My "horrible and awful" was an intended exaggeration of "Tua is wayyyyy better than everybody else" (and that is the gentle version).
We both know that Burrow probably will sit behind Dalton for a year much like Mahomes did behind Alex Smith so I am putting the "Day 1 can play" on the backburner a little. To use the 1-15 record (it was actually 2-14) as an excuse not to take Tua is a stretch. Last time I checked half the board was ready to take him at #1 with an 0-16 record. And to be honest using the record as an excuse to take one QB over the other is a little bit weird. I always thought that if you have the chance at your franchise QB you take it - no matter when, where and what your record is.

You tried better but in the end we reduce it to:
- Bengals stupid


Gentlemen, Bengals stupid is not good enough. If the Miami Dolphins should trade valuable draft capital to make that moronic move up to #2 (or 3) because he is so great why in the Spaghetti Monster's Name would the Bengals not take Tua? Bengals stupid? That's it.

Burrow started the year off as a guy who wasn't even good enough to be drafted. Now let's put ourselves back to the beginning of the college season before Tua's injury.

Could you really say that Tua wasn't "wayyyyy better than everybody else"? He was. This is why a large contingent on the forum wanted to get him at all costs.

Things obviously change and I'd take Burrow #1 over Tua even though I still feel like there's something off about him for some reason, but let's not pretend that this version of reality was always the case and then hold it against people for 3 month ago's reality.

 

[phins_4_ever]

That question has been answered multiple times today. If the Bengals rate Burrow as QB1 they take him #1. Burrow and the Bengals are now irrelevant, so Miami's actions are not related to what the Bengals have done, or Burrow, or whether Burrow is better than Tua, they're related to how badly they want the best QB left on the board and what the risk there is that someone else trades ahead of us.

"Tua is good enough to sell the house to move up in the draft but not god enough to be picked by the Bengals?" - why can't both be true?

Ahhhhhhh. A reasonable answer. Thank you. Better than Bengals stupid.

Why can't both be true? Because if we sell the house to move up for Tua we will use multiple picks (probably incl multiple 1st round picks) so our investment would technically be much higher. We basically increase the value of Tua. TBH my question was more of a sentimental one because everybody who wants to trade up wants to trade up to get Tua. If someone would have said "I want to trade up to get me a QB (Burrow or Tua)" I probably would have not ask that question. But none of them ever considered anybody but Tua. I was playing the obsession part and if anybody can give me a reasonable answer.

 

[NBP81]

Here is a much more simple question: If we had the #1 pick in the draft who would you pick? Tua or Burrow?

I would pick Tua as a personnal preference, but would be just as good with Burrow. They are the only one in this draft class that I'd be confident picking in the 1st round TBH. While the risk is different between Tua and Burrow, the actual risk figure is quite close. There's really no difference if your QB busts because he hurt himself vs. busting because your evaluation banked on a short sample size of greatness.

Long story short, your question is attempting to create divide between Tua fans and Burrow fans. When it actually doesnt matter... What really matters is the gap between Tua and Burrow VS the rest of the QBs in this class. Pick #2 assures you not getting buttraped by that gap...

 

[Rev Kev]

Do you have an inferiority complex? Me being a mod has nothing to do with my question. The board reads the same for everybody unless you think a moderator has some secret vision and can read secret texts.

Since you are so infatuated with my mod status and you seem to refer to that almost every single time I suggest that you read the TOS

https://finheaven.com/help/finheaventos/

In regards to the rest of the post:
No, it has not been answered a thousand times. Tua is good enough to sell the house to move up in the draft but not god enough to be picked by the Bengals?

Let me ask you this: if we had the #1 pick in this year's draft who would you pick? Burrow or Tua?

Because you are a Mod read the 1,000s of threads on the topic - the question has been answered a zillion times - so save the sarcasm that no one answers You - is it at all getting boring trotting out the same line?

No one can answer, no one will answer you - really? Who has the complex???

And if you want to start a Burrow is a Great pick for us and this is why? Thread - Why don’t you? I look forward to reading it

 

[Spiff]

This thread needs to be in the Draft section, not in the main.

 

[phins_4_ever]

Everybody does not think that. It would take #3, and even then I doubt that either i) it would be required, or ii) if it was required the cost would be that high.

And why is it OK to draft injured Tua with the #3 pick but not the #1? Because Joe Burrow is sat there at #1 and the Bengals aren't ever going to question that pick to consider an injured Tua. We don't have that option so we can (or have to) look deeper and consider the bigger picture given our different options than those that the Bengals have.

What would be interesting is if Burrow and Tua were both there with our pick, either because we had the #1 pick or if a teams without a QB need were picking before us. But that isn't the case, Tua is the best QB available to us but comes with the massive asterisk of his injury. That's why we have to decide if he's worth it with his injury status when the Bengals can convince themselves that they don't.

I hope everybody reads your answer. Thanks.

Out of curiousity (no catch, no hidden agenda) if both were available to us (either if we picked #1 or if they would drop to us) who'd you pick?

 

[meatpardle]

Ahhhhhhh. A reasonable answer. Thank you. Better than Bengals stupid.

Why can't both be true? Because if we sell the house to move up for Tua we will use multiple picks (probably incl multiple 1st round picks) so our investment would technically be much higher. We basically increase the value of Tua. TBH my question was more of a sentimental one because everybody who wants to trade up wants to trade up to get Tua. If someone would have said "I want to trade up to get me a QB (Burrow or Tua)" I probably would have not ask that question. But none of them ever considered anybody but Tua. I was playing the obsession part and if anybody can give me a reasonable answer.

But that's the price we pay for landing where we did, if we trade up to get Tua (and like I've said I'm not convinced there's as much need to or that it will be as expensive as some think) then yeah I guess technically that will mean we'd have paid more for Tua than Cincy paid for Burrow. It's an interesting thought but I'm not sure one that should really affect the decision, or mean that it isn't a worthwhile move. Trading up has to come with the acceptance that you're losing value, which is why trading down for extra picks is such a popular option for fans, but there are times when it may be worth it.

Also I think most are saying to trade for Tua because the assumption is that Burrow is out of reach.

Double also Bengals stupid is always a point worth considering because Bengals stupid.

 

[meatpardle]

I hope everybody reads your answer. Thanks.

Out of curiousity (no catch, no hidden agenda) if both were available to us (either if we picked #1 or if they would drop to us) who'd you pick?

I honestly don't know. I've been on the Tua train since it left the station, but you have to respect what Burrow has done this year. It would be massivley hypocritical to praise Tua's intelligence and intangibles and then not rate what Burrow has consistently done this year against big teams in clutch moments. If Tua had not injured his hip and continued to play well, but Alabama still missed the playoffs and Burrow wins the Heisman and gets to the Championship game I think I'd still favour Tua. But offer me Burrow and Tua with the injury hanging over him? That's a tempting apple.