Upgrades Since '17 - O Edition

[BigNastyFish]

IMO...

OL = significant upgrade (starters and depth -- run and pass pro)

TE = significant upgrade (significant speculation aka 2 rookie contributors)

QB = significant upgrade (starter and depth)

RB = positive progression (evolution of drake + KB and Gore)

WR = significant loss (that can be offset by TE and emergence of prior roster WR talent)

DT = significant loss (that can be partially offset by continued emergence of young DL talent and superior LB play)

DE = upgrade (if Quinn is strong we're golden - coupled with Harris evolution and Wake fountain of youth)

LB = significant upgrade (Raekwon + Jerome + emerging young talent)

DB = significant upgrade (Fitzpatrick! + seemingly oodles of young talent on the RISE)

Kickers/Teams = push (FG kicker looks good so far...)

Summary = DT is the biggest concern -- which can be offset a LOT by the O scoring early and often -- which will also benefit out D collectively for obvious reasons.

Season is 100% contingent on Gase/Thill combo coupled with a few pieces falling right - starting with Gesicki and (crossed flippers) the overdue consistent emergence of DVP. In addition, mighty mouse and some cats like Isaiah Ford need to assert themselves as legit N F L terrorists for us to really rumble. All in all, not a lot of ?s but it starts at the very top. If we putter through our preseason games (as we have been scoring at glacier speed) it could be a long 1st half of the season. We gotta get off early and often!!!

 

[DolfanDuBbZ~]

Gesiki because of the unknowns.

Drake because he grew into the game/position last year.

Are my main 2.

 

[Ray R]

IMO...

OL = significant upgrade (starters and depth -- run and pass pro)

TE = significant upgrade (significant speculation aka 2 rookie contributors)

QB = significant upgrade (starter and depth)

RB = positive progression (evolution of drake + KB and Gore)

WR = significant loss (that can be offset by TE and emergence of prior roster WR talent)

DT = significant loss (that can be partially offset by continued emergence of young DL talent and superior LB play)

DE = upgrade (if Quinn is strong we're golden - coupled with Harris evolution and Wake fountain of youth)

LB = significant upgrade (Raekwon + Jerome + emerging young talent)

DB = significant upgrade (Fitzpatrick! + seemingly oodles of young talent on the RISE)

Kickers/Teams = push (FG kicker looks good so far...)

Summary = DT is the biggest concern -- which can be offset a LOT by the O scoring early and often -- which will also benefit out D collectively for obvious reasons.

Season is 100% contingent on Gase/Thill combo coupled with a few pieces falling right - starting with Gesicki and (crossed flippers) the overdue consistent emergence of DVP. In addition, mighty mouse and some cats like Isaiah Ford need to assert themselves as legit N F L terrorists for us to really rumble. All in all, not a lot of ?s but it starts at the very top. If we putter through our preseason games (as we have been scoring at glacier speed) it could be a long 1st half of the season. We gotta get off early and often!!!

Good Post. One of the most comprehensive I've seen from you.

 

[McMichael]

IMO...

OL = significant upgrade (starters and depth -- run and pass pro)

TE = significant upgrade (significant speculation aka 2 rookie contributors)

QB = significant upgrade (starter and depth)

RB = positive progression (evolution of drake + KB and Gore)

WR = significant loss (that can be offset by TE and emergence of prior roster WR talent)

DT = significant loss (that can be partially offset by continued emergence of young DL talent and superior LB play)

DE = upgrade (if Quinn is strong we're golden - coupled with Harris evolution and Wake fountain of youth)

LB = significant upgrade (Raekwon + Jerome + emerging young talent)

DB = significant upgrade (Fitzpatrick! + seemingly oodles of young talent on the RISE)

Kickers/Teams = push (FG kicker looks good so far...)

Summary = DT is the biggest concern -- which can be offset a LOT by the O scoring early and often -- which will also benefit out D collectively for obvious reasons.

Season is 100% contingent on Gase/Thill combo coupled with a few pieces falling right - starting with Gesicki and (crossed flippers) the overdue consistent emergence of DVP. In addition, mighty mouse and some cats like Isaiah Ford need to assert themselves as legit N F L terrorists for us to really rumble. All in all, not a lot of ?s but it starts at the very top. If we putter through our preseason games (as we have been scoring at glacier speed) it could be a long 1st half of the season. We gotta get off early and often!!!

Agree with 95% here, I think its being too generous to call kicker a push though, Parkey is NFL proven and has 2x pro bowl caliber seasons under his belt. We have to be downgraded there until proven otherwise.

LB we added Baker and lost Timmons, so much is hinging on Raekwon that I could see that position being just as bad or worse if he doesn't live up to expectations. Heres to hoping the injury doesnt affect him even a little bit and he lives up to his high draft status

 

[JahnDho]

Yes I've looked into his career quite a bit. He had a major injury and it took a while for him to get beyond it. He doesn't to my knowledge have any degenerative conditions and now has a clean bill of health. Unlike Pouncey. He will practice. Unlike Pouncey.

If degenerative condition then high probability of missed practice time. True, but think of Ajayi as an exception.

If clean bill of health then low probability of missed practice time. True, but tons of exceptions.

This might not be your intent, but what I also hear you saying is, if injury prone then low probability of missed practice time. This just isn’t rational.

My point is, both players are hurt a lot and miss practice so continuing to say Kilgore is an upgrade because Pouncy doesn’t practice, is a moot point.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

IMO...

OL = significant upgrade (starters and depth -- run and pass pro)

TE = significant upgrade (significant speculation aka 2 rookie contributors)

QB = significant upgrade (starter and depth)

RB = positive progression (evolution of drake + KB and Gore)

WR = significant loss (that can be offset by TE and emergence of prior roster WR talent)

DT = significant loss (that can be partially offset by continued emergence of young DL talent and superior LB play)

DE = upgrade (if Quinn is strong we're golden - coupled with Harris evolution and Wake fountain of youth)

LB = significant upgrade (Raekwon + Jerome + emerging young talent)

DB = significant upgrade (Fitzpatrick! + seemingly oodles of young talent on the RISE)

Kickers/Teams = push (FG kicker looks good so far...)

Summary = DT is the biggest concern -- which can be offset a LOT by the O scoring early and often -- which will also benefit out D collectively for obvious reasons.

Season is 100% contingent on Gase/Thill combo coupled with a few pieces falling right - starting with Gesicki and (crossed flippers) the overdue consistent emergence of DVP. In addition, mighty mouse and some cats like Isaiah Ford need to assert themselves as legit N F L terrorists for us to really rumble. All in all, not a lot of ?s but it starts at the very top. If we putter through our preseason games (as we have been scoring at glacier speed) it could be a long 1st half of the season. We gotta get off early and often!!!

Close to my thinking. WR, IMO, shouldn't be much of a loss, if any. To me, equal, mostly due to Tannehill and no longer focusing on one WR. Parker? I expect the Parker we've seen all along.
LB - KA returns - no change. McMillan - upgrade. The 3rd spot is the question. No one knows how the new guy will do in run D, but I expect improvement in pass pro. Could be worse, but I expect equal or better.
K - right now, I'm pessimistic, but I'm going 'unknown.'

 

[BigNastyFish]

Agree with 95% here, I think its being too generous to call kicker a push though, Parkey is NFL proven and has 2x pro bowl caliber seasons under his belt. We have to be downgraded there until proven otherwise.

LB we added Baker and lost Timmons, so much is hinging on Raekwon that I could see that position being just as bad or worse if he doesn't live up to expectations. Heres to hoping the injury doesnt affect him even a little bit and he lives up to his high draft status

Agree. Tho I'm also banking on our best position coach who selected the talent and is developing it... I'm OK with that. Plus I want TDs and not hoping for last second FGs to sneak out wins. Beyond that if Raekwon stumbles we're in trouble -- so yes I am certainly (optimistically) banking on a somewhat unproven component...

If ??? the cards play out in our favor -- with NO bad hands and of course a li'l good ole luck rolling our way -- I see no reason why we can't compete game in game out. But like I said -- it has to start at the top -- and we've got to get out of the gate fast! Jump on teams. Get 'em down. Then beat the snot out of 'em!

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

Parkey was outstanding last season. I'm very concerned about the kicking.

 

[BigNastyFish]

Parkey was outstanding last season. I'm very concerned about the kicking.

He's a kicker... Kick the crap out of kickoffs and make the gimme FGs and Xpoints. No biggie... Unless you're counting on your D and FG kicker to win games and that formula don't play no more.

 

[Jssanto]

This one is more difficult because there seems to be more emotion to some players.
The projected comparisons are . . .

OC - Pouncey v Kilgore - equal. The ability for an OLman to practice during game week can not be overstated. Pouncey couldn't. Kilgore can. And the OL din't seem to suffer when Brendel subbed for Pouncey.
OG - Larsen/Bushrod v Davis/Sitton - no debate. Better
OT - Tunsil/James v no change - equal
WR - Stills/Parker/Landry v Stills/Parker/who knows - difficult for a number of reasons. The debate over Landry, which seeps in to discussions on Amendola and Wilson. Not listed, but Grant '18 should put up better numbers than Grant '17. IMO, equal at worst.
TE - JT/Fasano v Gesicki/pick one. Better.
QB - Cutler v Tannehill. No discussion neded
RB - Ajayii/Drake/Williams - Drake/Gore/Ballage. Another emotional position. I wasn't a huge fan of Ajayi. Not that he wasn't good, but he seemed addicted to 200 yard games and would bounce in the hope of 20 yards instead of powering for 3. And I was no fan of Williams. Plus, a better receiving group. Better.

I see no 'worse' positions and 3 obviously better positions. depth appears better.

I would argue that tackle has improved. Tunsil now has a full year of LT under his belt and James is in a contract year.

 

[Jssanto]

we lost our leading rusher and receiver from 2016 (when we went to the playoffs). you can't just look at paper and say we're better. we need to see, but it's probably doubtful we're better than we were in 2016.

I do not value Landry as much as others. He caught passes but did not change outcomes nor make others around him better. Regarding our WRs , I am not counting on Parker (love to be wrong) so we will need more production than expected from a Scott or Ford.

 

[Jssanto]

I'm pretty sure I remember seeing an article talking about how bad the holding was for our new kicker in college. Could be something I honestly know nothing about how to kick a FG but I would imagine the holder plays a big part. Not saying he would have made more but maybe someone remembers who wrote that?

Yes, Rizzi made that comment that FG % is not a great evaluator from college. Too many variables of snappers, holders, line protection, etc

 

[Burnt Reynolds]

I do not value Landry as much as others. He caught passes but did not change outcomes nor make others around him better. Regarding our WRs , I am not counting on Parker (love to be wrong) so we will need more production than expected from a Scott or Ford.

Ok I hear ya, but I do think that Landry changed the outcomes of games and made people around him better. Causing that chaos underneath is what lead to a lot of those Kenny Stills deep routes. He also was our go-to-guy on 3rd/4th down. Scott/Ford have to make the team first, then make it on the field. They have to beat out Amendola/Wilson/Grant for snaps, so not sure how much they will contribute. But I'm with you, hope Parker somehow figures it out and dominates this year.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

Ok I hear ya, but I do think that Landry changed the outcomes of games and made people around him better. Causing that chaos underneath is what lead to a lot of those Kenny Stills deep routes. He also was our go-to-guy on 3rd/4th down. Scott/Ford have to make the team first, then make it on the field. They have to beat out Amendola/Wilson/Grant for snaps, so not sure how much they will contribute. But I'm with you, hope Parker somehow figures it out and dominates this year.

I don't think anyone is arguing Landry wasn't a good player or didn't help the team. The disagreements tend to be with those who say he's an 'elite' receiver or that he was critical to the O. Yes, he is a good player and, yes, he changed some games. But that DOESN'T mean he's the ONLY good slot nor does it mean no one else can help win games. This is NOT a question of Landry or catastrophe. It's Landry and 'we don't know yet.' Many of us think Amendola/Wilson can take most, if not all, of that loss. Some don't see it. The answer won't be known til December.
I've said a couple of time, what top teams DON'T have is bottom quintile talent. Step one for ANY O is getting rid of bottom quintile talent. Miami did that with Cutler, JT, Bushrod. Pouncey? The ability to practice with the complete OL on game week can not be over-emphasized. Overall, I see no downgrade with Kilgore. Ajayi? Another guy I like and wish he would have stayed. He didn't and I don't think his loss will be significant. Everything else is quite fussy. Will Tunsil be better in year two at LT? Will Parker finally break out? Was the Davis fans saw last year the 'real' Davis? How much will an already decided OL help the O? Did Gase learn how to run an NFL O? I come down on the optimistic side, not TOTALLY because I'm a fan, but because I think better coaches and, overall, better talent will make a difference. For example, I think it's reasonable Tannehill is worth 1-2 wins more than Cutler. We'll soon see.

 

[SirDrums]

The one thing that I want to see that will improve this O is less drops from the receivers. I don't remember it being horrific last year but the previous years it seems like the receivers could not hold onto the ball. Improve that and game on.