What the knock on Herbert? | Page 11 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

What the knock on Herbert?

He'll go top 10 and I hope its not the Dolphins. Let another QB starved team make that mistake.
 
Dogbone34 said:
Starting to fall out of like with Herbs.

Might have to roll with Rosen next season. Trade down and take Tua in the mids.
Click to expand...

Why?

I hope not because you are listening to a bunch of Tua supporters who would draft him even if he had a prosthetic leg.

Herbert has 30 TDs and 5 INTs...Tua has 33 TDs and 3 INTs.

Don't drink the Tua Kool Aid.
 
I thought he looked the same as always. Once in a while there's a nice play fake and the play unfolds perfectly. Herbert moves crisply and stands tall in the pocket. The ball is thrown with authority and arrives nicely. That's where all the techno guys are convinced he's the ideal NFL quarterback. I can just imagine what the Giants guy would say about Herbert, if he thought Daniel Jones looks like an NFL quarterback.

Then there is the rest of the story, although I was no fan of Paul Harvey.

I could ignore lots of the flaws if he didn't have that tunnel vision. Herbert panics and sees only what is in front of him. That's what sets Burrow above Herbert and also Jake Fromm, at least in terms of field presence. Burrow obviously is student of the game so he senses where everything is likely to open up. He remains patient and waits for that. Herbert gets scared and Fromm is simply ordinary in that category.

There are so many line drives to nowhere from Herbert. Then most exasperating of all is the dependency on completions behind the line of scrimmage. On that final touchdown he converted a swing pass for a first down on 3rd and 10, then another 3rd and long screen pass for the touchdown. That was wonderful in terms of Oregon creeping back into the game but it doesn't translate 1% toward the NFL.

They had that specialty pro basketball league for a while with 6-4 and under players, or whatever it was. Herbert needs to be in some type of specialty league in which throws behind the line of scrimmage are not allowed. It would enable a far greater look at him.

Herbert completing passes behind the line of scrimmage. Jake Fromm not putting many points on the board. In other words, nothing new. I don't pretend to know how to fully translate this stuff. I just wanted to lose games and draft Tua. The fewer variables the better.
 
You Tua guys will make up ANY statistic to support drafting Mr. Glass.

Other QBs velocity isn't the same...the yards per completion isn't the same.

What's next?
 
Herbert could be either or, bust or good. But I see bust so far. Fromm, who I liked for awhile, just doesnt seem NFL Caliber anymore.

Burrow or nobody until later rounds. Take a flyer on Costello and Montez in later rounds
 
DPhinz_DPhinz said:
Why?

I hope not because you are listening to a bunch of Tua supporters who would draft him even if he had a prosthetic leg.

Herbert has 30 TDs and 5 INTs...Tua has 33 TDs and 3 INTs.

Don't drink the Tua Kool Aid.
Click to expand...

See post from Las Vegas.
 
Tunnel vision makes a lot of sense to me. Definitely think I see that at times. But I also think that offense ask invites tunnel vision if you will with half field reads and concepts even.

They aren’t asking him to go to a 3rd read in other words and it looks to me like there’s a lot of half field read asks which is similar to just about any athletic legit run threat qb offense ask. And you will find a lot of it in pistol and zone read concepts. When they aren’t running primary only stuff which every qb in college and the pros even implements at times.

he’s standing in more this year than prior which is hiding some of his off script abilities he’s shown in the past. At times that’s been good because he was connecting on his passes at a higher clip this year but at times it also shows his lack of instincts in a dirty pocket in terms of moving to space.

definitely a work in progress with it. Should be more elusive at times given the athlete.
 
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DPhinz_DPhinz said:
Why?

I hope not because you are listening to a bunch of Tua supporters who would draft him even if he had a prosthetic leg.

Herbert has 30 TDs and 5 INTs...Tua has 33 TDs and 3 INTs.

Don't drink the Tua Kool Aid.
Click to expand...
cmp att. %. Yds. AVG. Td Int long QBR
18025271.42,84011.333385206.9
24535569.03,96611.243681199.5
497763.66368.311260175.0

24035268.22,9668.430573164.2
24040459.43,1517.829883144.7
13920667.51,9839.615567167.5
16225563.51,9367.619472148.8

Took him his 4th year to have that ratio, yet still doesn’t come close to match either of Tua’s years starting. Not including missing games this year and not playing 4th quarter last year. But yeah made up stats
 
Rolltide03 said:
cmp att. %. Yds. AVG. Td Int long QBR
18025271.42,84011.333385206.9
24535569.03,96611.243681199.5
497763.66368.311260175.0

24035268.22,9668.430573164.2
24040459.43,1517.829883144.7
13920667.51,9839.615567167.5
16225563.51,9367.619472148.8

Took him his 4th year to have that ratio, yet still doesn’t come close to match either of Tua’s years starting. Not including missing games this year and not plyingb 4th quarter last year. But yeah made up stats
Click to expand...

Actually, he had a good year last season. He would have been the 2nd QB off the board. This year is better and now the cult of The Whipping Boy aka Porcelain Doll aka Mr. Glass aka The Cryin' Hawaiian aka Tua fears that someone will be drafted in front of the gimp.

That was happening anyway with Burrow...now it may go on past Frohm. Let somebody else draft this guy, hopefully Tennesee, so I can get a twofer.
 
Again, the knock on Herbert is that he'll be drafted before Tua and its killing his cheerleading team on Finheaven.

Rest easy with the knowledge that I was all in drafting the fine China doll until his hip came apart.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
I thought he looked the same as always. Once in a while there's a nice play fake and the play unfolds perfectly. Herbert moves crisply and stands tall in the pocket. The ball is thrown with authority and arrives nicely. That's where all the techno guys are convinced he's the ideal NFL quarterback. I can just imagine what the Giants guy would say about Herbert, if he thought Daniel Jones looks like an NFL quarterback.

Then there is the rest of the story, although I was no fan of Paul Harvey.

I could ignore lots of the flaws if he didn't have that tunnel vision. Herbert panics and sees only what is in front of him. That's what sets Burrow above Herbert and also Jake Fromm, at least in terms of field presence. Burrow obviously is student of the game so he senses where everything is likely to open up. He remains patient and waits for that. Herbert gets scared and Fromm is simply ordinary in that category.

There are so many line drives to nowhere from Herbert. Then most exasperating of all is the dependency on completions behind the line of scrimmage. On that final touchdown he converted a swing pass for a first down on 3rd and 10, then another 3rd and long screen pass for the touchdown. That was wonderful in terms of Oregon creeping back into the game but it doesn't translate 1% toward the NFL.

They had that specialty pro basketball league for a while with 6-4 and under players, or whatever it was. Herbert needs to be in some type of specialty league in which throws behind the line of scrimmage are not allowed. It would enable a far greater look at him.

Herbert completing passes behind the line of scrimmage. Jake Fromm not putting many points on the board. In other words, nothing new. I don't pretend to know how to fully translate this stuff. I just wanted to lose games and draft Tua. The fewer variables the better.
Click to expand...
I've been struggling to come up with a comparison for Burrow, but I finally landed on one I like -- Pennington. Doesn't have a big arm, fairly athletic, always knows exactly where to go with the ball. Smart and proficient.

Herbert looked pretty bad this past weekend. I saw part of the game, but I think your analysis is good. I know with his physical skills teams will take a chance early in the first. Look how high Josh Allen went and he's still learning on the job, but making strides.

Would like your thoughts on Jalen Hurts. From clearly the eyeball part and watching him play, he is very intriguing. I love quarterbacks with the kind of athletic ability he possesses, especially after watching Lamar Jackson tear up the league. Would Flores and staff be creative enough to use him to suit his talents?
 
hoops said:
Tunnel vision makes a lot of sense to me. Definitely think I see that at times. But I also think that offense ask invites tunnel vision if you will with half field reads and concepts even.

They aren’t asking him to go to a 3rd read in other words and it looks to me like there’s a lot of half field read asks which is similar to just about any athletic legit run threat qb offense ask. And you will find a lot of it in pistol and zone read concepts. When they aren’t running primary only stuff which every qb in college and the pros even implements at times.

he’s standing in more this year than prior which is hiding some of his off script abilities he’s shown in the past. At times that’s been good because he was connecting on his passes at a higher clip this year but at times it also shows his lack of instincts in a dirty pocket in terms of moving to space.

definitely a work in progress with it. Should be more elusive at times given the athlete.
Click to expand...
Push comes to shove, you're on the clock. It's your decision, Hoops. Burrow is gone, taken by Cincinnati. The Giants take Young. Miami's on the clock. Do you take Herbert?
 
SF Dolphin Fan said:
I've been struggling to come up with a comparison for Burrow, but I finally landed on one I like -- Pennington. Doesn't have a big arm, fairly athletic, always knows exactly where to go with the ball. Smart and proficient.

Herbert looked pretty bad this past weekend. I saw part of the game, but I think your analysis is good. I know with his physical skills teams will take a chance early in the first. Look how high Josh Allen went and he's still learning on the job, but making strides.

Would like your thoughts on Jalen Hurts. From clearly the eyeball part and watching him play, he is very intriguing. I love quarterbacks with the kind of athletic ability he possesses, especially after watching Lamar Jackson tear up the league. Would Flores and staff be creative enough to use him to suit his talents?
Click to expand...
Burrow has been compared to Pennington a few times here, and I think that’s the most accurate. I think Burrow is a bit more athletic than Pennington, and slightly, and I mean slightly stronger arm. But Pennington was efficient even with his flaws, he played smart. Speaking of Chad, he was on one of those football talk shows yesterday, along with Mangini.
 
I have to say my thinking is beginning to sway to taking Tua with our 1A pick, minus his injury preventing him from playing.

Herbert has good numbers and admittedly I do not watch him a ton but he seems to only be good down field when guys are wide open even his 15 yard throws guys are all by themselves i dont see him throw people open. And goodness they throw the ball from minus 2 to +2 yard beyond the LOS a **** TON. Dont see him making a lot of NFL throws

Fromm has totally **** the bed the last two weeks, and I am a huge Fromm supporter. I think his pre snap and execution of the offense are elite. And he does make a several throws like back shoulder and corner routes along with fades very well but he is just plain missing throws and is in his head. Confidence has always been a thing he has had but he is forcing it and just really showing his flaws.

Side note the ASU RB Benjamin. If he comes out could be a fun guy to take a flyer on, pass catching RB who earns hard yards in situations where they know you are running sounds like he fits that James White role.

I could see Miami being a wild card taking Young with 1A then coupling their other 2 first rounders to trade back up into the top 10 and get Tua, but that is a huge risk and would rather take Tua 1A
 
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