What the knock on Herbert? | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

What the knock on Herbert?

SCOTTY said:
You get though that's not how the NFL works anymore. Any qb that goes 1st rd is going to be expected to start.
5 qbs will go 1st round this draft.
Burrow, Herbert and Fromm are 1st round locks. Tua is now up in air but before injury was a lock. Some team will trade back into 1st for hurt.
All but hurt will be expected starter.
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And I hear you Scott but watch them fail - they don’t have that “lock” “Saviour” piece to their game - letsit and learn and figure things out and then you may have something
 
SF Dolphin Fan said:
I think the team will still have interest in Tua depending on his rehab/diagnosis.

Besides Tua, I would think Herbert and Burrow would be quarterbacks the team likes.

Beyond that, it's just hard to know.
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If they select Burrow or Herbert Tua is an illogical pick - and further complicates both men’s lives and endangers the culture of the team
 
I’m not an expert but it is beyond me how anyone can watch Herbert play and see a plus nfl starter. He is an incredibly inaccurate QB when he’s not throwing check downs and screens. Unless coaching can miraculously fix that I see Josh Allen at best. I do believe the hype will wear out and he will not be a top15 pick. Iv seen many of his games and many of Fromms games. Give me Fromm all day
 
ckparrothead said:
Personally my knock on Justin Herbert is that he finds a wide array of ways to fail on any given play. And that's one of the reasons you see him get compared to Ryan Tannehill.

It can be ball placement. It can be missing a read. It can be late timing. It can be a straight up misfire. It can be failure to anticipate a blitz. It can be bad pressure sense. It can be bad instincts for how to move in order to escape pressure. It can be a fumble. It can be bad footwork leading to a batted pass. It can be bad situational awareness.

Imagine all these things on a big Wheel of Misfortune, and for a majority of his plays you're going to spin the wheel and it's going to land on something above. The play may very well succeed, despite the negative trait he showed. But he still showed it.

That's something that keeps happening with Josh Rosen, as well.

But I would love to hear Slimm's input on this because I know he's been liking what Herbert has been putting out lately. He and I disagree about the Washington game, but I agree that Herbert has been a rock star in the USC and Arizona games.
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I think that's a great summary, There's always been something wrong with Justin Herbert. That's how you get 3-star status in high school. That's how you get the inexplicable drop in completion percentage from 2017 to 2018.

Oregon is excellent right now not only in offensive line but also pass defense...5th in the nation in YPA allowed. The Pac 12 has never been as weak defensively as the Big 12 or as fans nationwide prefer to believe, but no question defensive 5.6 is rare by Pac 12 standards and really opens things up for the offense and quarterback to relax and thrive. Normally Washington is the only Pac 12 team in that 5.6 range.

I prefer quarterbacks who can vary every pass to the exact mph the situation requires. Herbert isn't like that. He has a few gears but throws everything in the midsection of those gears. That's why so many games feature one line drive after another. Then late in the game he gets stuck if the opponent takes away what was working earlier. Herbert can't switch to the deft finesse throw.

Burrow and also Tua are the guys in this crop who can remedy to the precise mph. Burrow's top speed may not be impressive but the gap throws and short midrange stuff are perfectly judged. My concern with him is what happens when he tries to throw the 15-25 yard floaters in the NFl.? He gets away with it in this LSU offense. Those 15-25 yard floaters were the only issue I had with Andrew Luck in college. He never really shook the tendency to force those throws in the NFL and without upping the zip there were numerous picks when he could least afford it.

There are also legitimate questions with Burrow on 3rd and 10-type drive saving throws into tight NFL windows. I'd have a much better feel for Burrow if I knew what his arm strength would look like in 3 years.

Fromm is a nice player but he's not raising his game nearly to the degree a top quarterback prospect normally does. Regardless of offense there should be some games in which everything clicks and you vastly exceed expectation. There is nothing like that from Fromm this year. It is a category one of my most trusted Las Vegas friends always looks at toward the NFL. This season in SEC games and against Notre Dame, Georgia has gone under its projected one-team point total every time except the Tennessee game.

I agree with Horry. We need Tua. Alabama has gone over the projected one-team total in every SEC game except -- ironically -- Tennessee. Alabama was well beyond its projected first half total against Mississippi State last week before Tua got hurt.
 
There’s nothing inaccurate about his passing this year. I mean what is it a 70 percent clip. And it’s not all screens and dumps either. The skill talent he has to work with is average at best. And I’m probably being kind without his starting tight end. The first 5 weeks of the season or so he didn’t even have a top 3 wr suiting up. Something along those lines. He lost his top guy freshman pittman with a broken wrist Saturday.

I think what people aren’t accounting for is what impact pistol and zone read can have on the qb as long as you can maintain the sticks. You are gonna have a hard time getting to him and exposing his weaknesses in that style o as long as they can maintain the sticks.

And this year when his process has taken a net loss he’s regained the sticks or the yard marker on virtually the very next play. Did it twice last Saturday. That arm is an offset.

O line investment will be important. But guess what we are gonna be doing that for whatever qb we select. Heck that’s all people talk about is the need to invest in tbe o line for the qb.
 
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Redskins picked two QBs, Cousins and RG3. Granted, 5th round Cousins was.

If im miami im calling Carolina and Jax about trading maybe a 3rd rounder for either of their rookie QBs.

At least Kyle Allen is proven, whereas college guys havent played yet in the NFL.
 
This is seriously going to be the most interesting off season in memory. There are so many guys at all positions who man make a jump between now and draft day. Along with Tua who is now basically holding the draft process hostage and will have ESPN at his place everyday watching him walk to his car and have doctors break down his stride to take a guess if he is on the quick path to recovery (you laugh but then you will cry because you know it's true)

I agree with guys on here, Tua is the most well rounded guy....

Burrow - intangibles and gritty, arm is okay but can he fit it in and better athlete than people would give him credit for plus a bit older. Where is he in his presnap abilities?

Tua - most well rounded, good arm, great anticipation, makes quick decision and accurate. Mobile enough when healthy to get you first downs and avoid the rush. Steady leader but not super vocal

Herbert - physical tools galore, probably best measurables and arm in class and accuracy has improved. Decent athlete, but doesnt have the full array of throws and seems to make it work despite not having great presnap or progression abilities.

Fromm - intangibles, best presnap in class works through progression as well as Tua, arm is better than you think and has high end accuracy, can move around and run some but not elusive like Tua. Footwork and mechanics are wonky at times. But his measurables, will his hand size mess with people? Is he as big as he is listed?

There is also the chance that Young comes out and obliterates workouts and interviews and makes himself a cant miss #1 pick, maybe Judey comes out and breaks Ross' record 40 at the combine and crushes workouts. Maybe someone takes him at #2. Thomas could dominate the next few games against crazy high end competition and own the off season might push him into #1 or #2 territory.
 
How is herbert only a decent athlete?

He’s one of the most physically gifted qb prospects in the last 20 years
 
TruePoizon said:
Redskins picked two QBs, Cousins and RG3. Granted, 5th round Cousins was.

If im miami im calling Carolina and Jax about trading maybe a 3rd rounder for either of their rookie QBs.

At least Kyle Allen is proven, whereas college guys havent played yet in the NFL.
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I dont like this mentality, feels like the way we have operated for 2 decades.

Need to draft a guy and develop him, no more stop gap quick fixes. Have a vet come in and play for the year and teach the rookie then hand over the team after 2 full off seasons of FA and draft additions.
 
TruePoizon said:
Redskins picked two QBs, Cousins and RG3. Granted, 5th round Cousins was.

If im miami im calling Carolina and Jax about trading maybe a 3rd rounder for either of their rookie QBs.

At least Kyle Allen is proven, whereas college guys havent played yet in the NFL.
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Kyle Allen is not a rookie and has only proven that he's bad.
 
Who’s happy with Kyle allen?

Same people probably happy with minshew
 
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