when people talk about marino...... | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

when people talk about marino......

Winning a Super Bowl does not depend on one man, but a total team effor. I've said it time and time again and I firmly believe this. If Dan Marino had a good defense, he would have gotten his Super Bowl ring. If he would have had a great defense, the Miami Dolphins would have been a dynasty.
 
painnotpleasure said:
If Dan Marino had a good defense, he would have gotten his Super Bowl ring. If he would have had a great defense, the Miami Dolphins would have been a dynasty.
this is why people haven't bought into Dan as being the best. It's all "IF ".
 
I never said a qb can't be great without a ring. All I said was to be considered the best qb of all time you need a ring. Kelly and Marino were a lot better than some qb's that have won the super bowl. They are recognized for being great, but neither have a ring, so they cannot be the best.
 
Boik14 said:
No one said it better than this quote i picked up (forget where i found it): "You can talk about championships all you want, but if you were playing football against Satan, down by four points with two minutes left in the game, and your immortal soul was on the line, there's only one person you'd want quarterbacking your team, and that's Daniel Constantine Marino."

The end :)

That's awesome!!! Who did originally say that??? Does anyone know?
 
painnotpleasure said:
Winning a Super Bowl does not depend on one man, but a total team effor. I've said it time and time again and I firmly believe this. If Dan Marino had a good defense, he would have gotten his Super Bowl ring. If he would have had a great defense, the Miami Dolphins would have been a dynasty.

Yeah, and if Norwood makes that kick we are the best dynasty of all time.

Wishful thinking.
 
Justasportsfan said:
I agree that Dan wasn't in the best situation. However, part of the knock on Marino is that he wasn't a natural leader. Meaning, it was all about him. He never accepted responsibility for his mistakes but got in the face of his teamates when they did. He didn't bring out the best in the players that sorounded him. There's no doubt he had the talent, the arm.He isn't IMO a better leader than Montana. The qb position is not just about passing, leadership is an even bigger factor.

Thats BS! If it wasnt for Marino, you wouldnt even know who clayton, duper, moore, mcduffie, or any other reciever's name. They would all be second rate WR's. He was a general, they dont ask your opinion, they give it too you. Thats what a general does. His skill didnt even come close to his natural feel for the game. He knew what his receivers could do, and he only asked of them what he knew they could give. i bet if you asked Shula, he would tell you Dan couldnt be coached. I dont think Dan knew the intriqueses, but what he did know, is how to get it done. That is why I say, you dont draft a guy, who has natural ability, and try to change him into something he isnt. You line him up and let him play. You help him along. I think that was a big knock on him, not to mention his smokin the ganga knock going into the draft, that made him fall, lucky for us.

Its like Butch davis, lining Courtney up at RE, and courtney played LE his whole life. He had the feel for LE, not RE. Its like trying to write with the opposite hand you have used your whole life. Some guys can be ambidextrious, some cant. That is the true genius of a great coach. Knowning your players capabilities.

Shula finally got the hang of it. I just cant believe he never got Dan a RB. He did try, but allthose shots at it, and maybe one you could argue, panned out. but then he gets killed in a car wreck. Thats horrible!!

Dan wasn't meant to have a ring, but I'm cool with that. I know he was the best, simply on skill, and mentality for the game.
 
Wagon Circler said:
Yeah, and if Norwood makes that kick we are the best dynasty of all time.

Wishful thinking.

maybe not the best dynasty, but the 1990s Bills would be thaught of completly difffrently
 
rafael said:
I don't think that the game passed Shula by. I just think his supporting coaches weren't as good. Remember we lost both our OC and DC after the "73 SB win. No team has ever overcome that. It will be interesting to see if NE can. Also our drafting was never great. We weren't horrible, but we weren't plucking the gems that the SB teams were. If it wasn't for Marino's availability at our pick our drafting would have been below avg. It was a testament to how good Shula was that we returned to the SB two more times with weak teams, ok assistant and avg. (at best) drafting.

Agreed but, who's job is it to correct those problems. Don't get me wrong I love Don Shula and for him to set his record for most wins in Philly where I grew up and against I team I can't stand the Eagles was poetic. Coaches come and go they move on but, you have to be able to replace them. I know it takes time. We lost Anrsbarker by no doubt hard to replace. So since 73 he was trying to replace him and we ended up with Olividoti for how long. What great thing was he doing from 87-95, 8 years and he left with Shula. Shula in the 8 years couldn't figure out he was clueless. Come on
 
LithoMan said:
Thats BS! If it wasnt for Marino, you wouldnt even know who clayton, duper, moore, mcduffie, or any other reciever's name. They would all be second rate WR's. He was a general, they dont ask your opinion, they give it too you. Thats what a general does. His skill didnt even come close to his natural feel for the game. He knew what his receivers could do, and he only asked of them what he knew they could give. i bet if you asked Shula, he would tell you Dan couldnt be coached. I dont think Dan knew the intriqueses, but what he did know, is how to get it done. That is why I say, you dont draft a guy, who has natural ability, and try to change him into something he isnt. You line him up and let him play. You help him along. I think that was a big knock on him, not to mention his smokin the ganga knock going into the draft, that made him fall, lucky for us.

Its like Butch davis, lining Courtney up at RE, and courtney played LE his whole life. He had the feel for LE, not RE. Its like trying to write with the opposite hand you have used your whole life. Some guys can be ambidextrious, some cant. That is the true genius of a great coach. Knowning your players capabilities.

Shula finally got the hang of it. I just cant believe he never got Dan a RB. He did try, but allthose shots at it, and maybe one you could argue, panned out. but then he gets killed in a car wreck. Thats horrible!!

Dan wasn't meant to have a ring, but I'm cool with that. I know he was the best, simply on skill, and mentality for the game.

Oh I agree. Dan made wr's with his arm. I still say, he wasn't the best leader out there.If he didn't ask opinions, it obviously didn't work.


I disagree however that generals simply give you opinions without asking others. Charlie Weiss was said to have talkesd to his players about what they thought about certain plays. If they think it could work, they'd do it. If not they don't.

Gilbride was like that. He asked/told players to do what they couln't do. That was the problem.
 
Wagon Circler said:
I never said a qb can't be great without a ring. All I said was to be considered the best qb of all time you need a ring. Kelly and Marino were a lot better than some qb's that have won the super bowl. They are recognized for being great, but neither have a ring, so they cannot be the best.

So, your run of four consecutive SB's, even without a win, your going to strip your tea of the right of one of the best ever teams assembled? You an idiot, to put it bluntly. I would consider your team of the early 90's one of the best ever. Win or no win.

Some things are meant to be. This is what debate is always about. But, I am like somebody else that said it. Because it is always debated, Marino being the GOAT, it just shows he is. All the other side ever has to says is, "where's his ring?". Thats all they got. Not the yards, not the TD's, not the single season passing TD and yardage marks (until manning this past season on tD's). All you got is "wheres his ring?". LAMEEEEEEEE!! You know it, you just cant admit it to us.
 
LithoMan said:
I always wonder how many more SB wins we could have got if the CFL wouldnt have started to steal our players in the 70's. I wasn't old enough to remeber back then, but I do know the CFL started to swipe our players. 3 consecutive bowls, winning two, sounds like the Patriots. Perfect season on one of them. Not the Patriots. Patriots would just be runners up.

It wasn't the CFL it was the WFL (World Football Leaue).
 
there are plenty of qb's with a ring but only one with 420tds and 61,000 yards!
 
FISHFAN44 said:
Agreed but, who's job is it to correct those problems. Don't get me wrong I love Don Shula and for him to set his record for most wins in Philly where I grew up and against I team I can't stand the Eagles was poetic. Coaches come and go they move on but, you have to be able to replace them. I know it takes time. We lost Anrsbarker by no doubt hard to replace. So since 73 he was trying to replace him and we ended up with Olividoti for how long. What great thing was he doing from 87-95, 8 years and he left with Shula. Shula in the 8 years couldn't figure out he was clueless. Come on

Many great coaches fail to replace their assistants. This is a failing. I just don't see it as evidence of the game passing him by. The Xs and Os he still understood. He adapted with the game. He just wasn't good enough at selecting coaches and players (since Beathard left).
 
Justasportsfan said:
Oh I agree. Dan made wr's with his arm. I still say, he wasn't the best leader out there.If he didn't ask opinions, it obviously didn't work.


I disagree however that generals simply give you opinions without asking others. Charlie Weiss was said to have talkesd to his players about what they thought about certain plays. If they think it could work, they'd do it. If not they don't.

Gilbride was like that. He asked/told players to do what they couln't do. That was the problem.

Ya, but it goes back to the knowing what your players can do, and cant do. that is the true genius of a great coach. Not asking to much. Thats why I think Dan would be a great coach. He has the knack or feel for players abilities. Thats what made him a great QB, he never asked to much.
 
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