Where does Dan Marino rank amongst all quarterbacks that have played in the NFL?

[nyjunc]

Dan the man,no doubt in my mind the number 1 QB of all time. All people want to talk about is winning the Superbowl,but you have to have the talent around you, he cant do anything about that,but he did more with the teams talent than any other QB that ever played could have. Some of those teams had awful defense, and without the gunslinging of Dan, we lose all of them ! What I look at is, put Dan in a 49er uniform (God forbid),but for the sake of my argument, then how many rings dose he have on his fingers with all that talent ?

Montana won 2 SBs w/o Jerry Rice. In SB XVI Montana's weapons were Dwight Clark(a good not great WR), Freddie Solomon(ok WR, good depp threat), Charle Young at TE(who?), RickyPatton/Earl Cooper/Johnndy davis at RB. He didn't have great talent around him for that SB. Montana gets underrated b/c of SF and Marino gets underrated b/c he didn't win. Marino would have won as much as Montana did if he played for SF. 2 incredible QBs w/ completely different styles.

 

[miamiron]

.

In or around 88/89 with Brian (took years off my life) Sochia as our nose tackle - I mean your killing me Shula - and a secondary as vapid as a black hole - and Marino had us in EVERY game.

QUOTE]

Memory goes with time
in 1988 we lost games of the
Bears...34-7
Jets.....44-30
Pats....21-10
Buffalo...31-6
Pittsburgh...40-24
Pats...6-3

Thats 6 games where Marino didn't have us in the game

1989
Houston...39-7
Bills...31-17
Pittsburgh...34-14
Colts....42-13

Not sure how he had us in every game or if it's selective
memory on your part.

Marino was special but not #1 QB of all-time special

 

[DKphin]

Top five definitely. Probably more like top three, but I still consider Unitas the best ever. You definitely have to consider Montana as well.

You are kidding, right? Besides being a total jerk, Montana was just a cog in the wheel. If he wasn't paired with the team he had in SF, I doubt if he would have been more than an afterthought. Dan would have been great anywhere he played.

 

[nyjunc]

You are kidding, right? Besides being a total jerk, Montana was just a cog in the wheel. If he wasn't paired with the team he had in SF, I doubt if he would have been more than an afterthought. Dan would have been great anywhere he played.

How come when they replaced him w/ another HOF QB SF's dynasty would end? Montana at the very end of his career when he barely had anything left led the Chiefs to the AFC Championship(and if not knocked out of that agme w/ an injury maybe he would have led them to the SB). From 1970-1992 w/o Montana KC had ONE playoff win, since Joe left after the '94 season KC has ZERO playoff wins. Montana is probably #1 but at worst he is right there in the discussion.

 

[beanh8er]

How come when they replaced him w/ another HOF QB SF's dynasty would end? Montana at the very end of his career when he barely had anything left led the Chiefs to the AFC Championship(and if not knocked out of that agme w/ an injury maybe he would have led them to the SB). From 1970-1992 w/o Montana KC had ONE playoff win, since Joe left after the '94 season KC has ZERO playoff wins. Montana is probably #1 but at worst he is right there in the discussion.

Joe left before the 94 season. He also didn't play in the 92 season. Young won a playoff game in 93 (the year Montana was traded)

 

[dolphindan1970]

Montana won 2 SBs w/o Jerry Rice. In SB XVI Montana's weapons were Dwight Clark(a good not great WR), Freddie Solomon(ok WR, good depp threat), Charle Young at TE(who?), RickyPatton/Earl Cooper/Johnndy davis at RB. He didn't have great talent around him for that SB. Montana gets underrated b/c of SF and Marino gets underrated b/c he didn't win. Marino would have won as much as Montana did if he played for SF. 2 incredible QBs w/ completely different styles.

Personally I loved Solomon and thought he was pretty dam good,young was a good but not great te, so I agree with that, and I am not arguing with you about Montana,which I will adree in just a minute. What I am saying when I talk about a good,or great talent around him is defensively also,which Dan hardly ever had around him, and when he had a good defense,the offense sucked. Those 49er teams had some pretty dam great defense's.

As far as Montana, I dont underate Joe,besides Marino,Manning,he is my all time fave,Joe was a hellofa QB,look what he did for KC after he left San Fran. Just saying though, Dan never had the complete package of talent around him the way Joe did,if he had,no doubt in my mind he has as many rings as Joe. My point though is simply football is not a 1 man game where 1 guy,like a Micheal Jordan can completely change the outcome. Although Dan sure did on many days,just couldnt do it in the playoffs when all the teams he faced were so much more talented than the Dolphins,like the Bills for so many years. Hell,put Dan on those Bills team even,how many rings does he have ?Dam sure bet he doesnt go 0-4 in them !

 

[Nick13]

It's very hard to compare QB's across eras with different rules and different styles of play. However, I think that Marino is in the top 5. I don't think Montana can really be compared to Marino because of the West Coast Offense. The WCO was designed to cover up Montana's weaknesses, namely, arm strength. Marino had no weaknesses as a passer (except mobility, which is something he did pay for more than once).

 

[Patrick_Bateman]

I have a top 5 of Montana, Unitas, Graham, Marino and Brady. You can shuffle them any way you like 1-4(I have Brady at 5 and climbing).

I tend to agree with you on this. I would have Marino in the top 5, but probably not #1 and its to argue the other guys you mentioned don't belong in the top 5.

 

[Roman529]

Joe Montana said Dan was the best ever. That's good enough for me. Peyton Manning will probably be considered the best ever after he retires, but every era is different. DBacks could mug receivers back when Dan played so Dan played under much tougher rules than QB's play under these days.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

I remember when the NFL Network was doing their top-100 players, and Marino, Brady, and Elway were all in the 20s, and he laughed at the idea that Brady was in any way comparable to Marino or Elway - but especially Marino.

Don Shula is great for Miami, but it's an absolute sin that Marino was never given more to work with.

 

[WeVie]

Best "quarterback" is always going to be a subjective argument. Superbowl rings, post season accomplishments, longevity, surrounding talent, etc. are always going to be variables.

Dan Marino was the best pure PASSER of all time, and you won't find many that will dispute that... not even former NFL quarterbacks who rank right up there in his neighborhood statistically. That also includes Hall of Fame caliber defenders that had to face him in his prime...

There's just not many quarterbacks that have ever played this game that could've accomplished what Marino was able to accomplish for as long as he did, with the teams he played on. Particularly in an era where the rules didn't allow for receivers to just run free all over the place, and brutalize quarterbacks the way they could 20 years ago. You can probably count 'em on one finger...

Dan Fouts and Warren Moon are the only two guys I've ever seen that could even be kept in Marino's company when it comes to the pure ability to pass the football...

I agree with all you say except one thing. I think you should add John Elway to your list. In my bias opinion those two rank one and two.

 

[CedarPhin]

He's definitely top 5. I always put him at the top, maybe I'm a little biased, but he was the best QB I've ever seen.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

I dredge up these stats occasionally, just to contrast the effect of TEAM on QB effectiveness. In Marino's 10 playoff losses, Miami gave up an average of ~210 yards rushing and ~34 points a game. 7 of those 10 games they gave up >200yards and >30points. Montana had 2 playoffs games where his team gave up >200yards rushing and >30points (both crushing losses). You basically can't win games against good teams giving up 200yds rushing and 30+points.

Montana's team gave up 16 points or less in 50% of his playoff games. ~33% of the time, they gave up 10 points or less. For Marino, it's ~19% (16 points or less) and ~10% (10 points or less). Those differences are pretty staggering, IMO.

This is the best summary of the issues with the Dolphin teams of that era that I have seen. It perfectly lays out what I have said all along about why Marino doesn't have a ring. It wasn't the lack of a running game. It was all about the defense. There are two names that sum up why Marino doesn't have a ring - Bill Arnsparger and Tom Olivadotti.

All of the Dolphins SuperBowl Appearances except the 1984 magically season were with Arnsparger as the DC. The Team's record and their defense with him was crazy. 9 out of 12 years they made the playoffs. In one of the seasons they missed the playoffs (1976), he came back in midseason. 10 of the 12 years they finished #1 or #2 in the division.

1983 12-4-0 1st -- AFC East 0-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs Don Shula Roster / Stats
1982 7-2-0 T2nd -- AFC 3-1 - Lost Superbowl Don Shula Roster / Stats
1981 11-4-1 1st -- AFC East 0-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs Don Shula Roster / Stats
1980 8-8-0 3rd -- AFC East -- Don Shula Roster / Stats
1979 10-6-0 1st -- AFC East 0-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs Don Shula Roster / Stats
1978 11-5-0 2nd -- AFC East 0-1 - Lost Wild Card Playoffs Don Shula Roster / Stats
1977 10-4-0 2nd -- AFC East -- Don Shula Roster / Stats
1976 6-8-0 3rd -- AFC East -- Don Shula Roster / Stats

1973 12-2-0 1st -- AFC East 3-0 - Won Superbowl Don Shula Roster / Stats
1972 14-0-0 1st -- AFC East 3-0 - Won Superbowl Don Shula Roster / Stats
1971 10-3-1 1st -- AFC East 2-1 - Lost Superbowl Don Shula Roster / Stats
1970 10-4-0 2nd -- AFC East 0-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs Don Shula Roster / Stats

IMO, if Arnsparger hadn't left the team in 1984, Marino would have his rings.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

This is the best summary of the issues with the Dolphin teams of that era that I have seen. It perfectly lays out what I have said all along about why Marino doesn't have a ring. It wasn't the lack of a running game. It was all about the defense. There are two names that sum up why Marino doesn't have a ring - Bill Arnsparger and Tom Olivadotti.

All of the Dolphins SuperBowl Appearances except the 1984 magically season were with Arnsparger as the DC. The Team's record and their defense with him was crazy. 9 out of 12 years they made the playoffs. In one of the seasons they missed the playoffs (1976), he came back in midseason. 10 of the 12 years they finished #1 or #2 in the division.

1983 12-4-0 1st -- AFC East 0-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs Don Shula Roster / Stats
1982 7-2-0 T2nd -- AFC 3-1 - Lost Superbowl Don Shula Roster / Stats
1981 11-4-1 1st -- AFC East 0-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs Don Shula Roster / Stats
1980 8-8-0 3rd -- AFC East -- Don Shula Roster / Stats
1979 10-6-0 1st -- AFC East 0-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs Don Shula Roster / Stats
1978 11-5-0 2nd -- AFC East 0-1 - Lost Wild Card Playoffs Don Shula Roster / Stats
1977 10-4-0 2nd -- AFC East -- Don Shula Roster / Stats
1976 6-8-0 3rd -- AFC East -- Don Shula Roster / Stats

1973 12-2-0 1st -- AFC East 3-0 - Won Superbowl Don Shula Roster / Stats
1972 14-0-0 1st -- AFC East 3-0 - Won Superbowl Don Shula Roster / Stats
1971 10-3-1 1st -- AFC East 2-1 - Lost Superbowl Don Shula Roster / Stats
1970 10-4-0 2nd -- AFC East 0-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs Don Shula Roster / Stats

IMO, if Arnsparger hadn't left the team in 1984, Marino would have his rings.

Absolutely. All the talk about Marino needing a running game was nonsense. Dan Marino didn't need a running game to win any superbowl rings.

What he needed was a defense that was at the very least, capable of holding Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas, Andre Reed and the Buffalo Bills from on average, dropping 35 points on Miami in the playoffs. The Bills averaged around 36 PPG against Miami in the playoffs.

Arnsparger was the head coach at LSU (grooming Mike Nolan by the way..) when Marino needed him most.

 

[crashfan]

If he was not burdened with the most inept DC in NFL history and he had a FO that would have been able top draft better, he would have won multiple SBs. Shula never put an emphasis on the running game with Dan, to his determent. I hate having this discussion every year because I hate making excuses, but it is the truth. If Dan had won even one SB, there would not even be a discussion of the topic.

I think Shula tried to get a running back in here, it just never panned out. Bobby Humphry, Sammie Smith, Lorenzo Hampton, and Terry Kirby to name a few. Shula's blind allegance to Ollividatti is what killed us. Ollididatti ends up being a LB coach for the Vikes if my memory serves me correctly.

I think Marino was the best passer ever and Montana is the best QB IMO. Best QB consideration can be very subjective.