Which QB will be the new Beast in the East.

[Section126]

You sound like the rest of the misinformed fans, I expect better from you. daunte is top 5 in stats only, he is nowhere near top 5 in reality. Qbs are judged on wins and the facts are Minny has a better win % w/o him than w/ him since Daunte became the starter in 2000. daunte is a major choker who has had some of the best weapons the game has ever seen and still choked add in the weak div and conf and it's impossible for him to be considered anything more than medicore.

Of course...you have zero evidence to back up the "Daunte is a choker" crap. I posted his playoff numbers. They are better than his regular season number averages.

Minnesota has never had a good defense in all the years Daunte was there.

Daunte is a top 5 QB in this league. PERIOD. No matter how much you wish it to be true...your ranting on Daunte would be laughed at by anybody who has seen an NFL game.

BTW...I like Ramsey....but he is garbage compared to Daunte.

 

[Fishfan1982]

Brady is still the best even with Daunte coming over. Can't believe I just said that.

 

[nyjunc]

Of course...you have zero evidence to back up the "Daunte is a choker" crap. I posted his playoff numbers. They are better than his regular season number averages.

Of course I don't have any evidence. how can a 13 rating again the Giants be evidence? How can leading a team to 17 pts at Ari in a do or die game when Ari was 4-12 and had been giving up 33/gm for 8 weeks be evidence? How can leading your team to 10 pts in the competitive portion of the game in what was supposed to be a do or die game(luckily they let 2 8-8 teams in) at 6-10 Wash? Yeah ther's no evidence:rolleyes2

Minnesota has never had a good defense in all the years Daunte was there.

So? Does that mean in that creampuff div and conf he couldn't get to the playoffs more often? It didn't hurt Carson palmer last year? in '02 Chad ha da D in the mid 20s and he won the toughest div in the NFL, last year the Vikes D stunk yet they were 2-5 w/ Daunte and 7-2 w/o him, Dan never had great D's and he always seemed to make the playoffs expet for a few year stretch in the late 80s.

Daunte is a top 5 QB in this league. PERIOD. No matter how much you wish it to be true...your ranting on Daunte would be laughed at by anybody who has seen an NFL game.

Daunte is NOT close to being a top 5 QB, not even close. He is a fantasy QB and that's it AND he's damaged goods.

BTW...I like Ramsey....but he is garbage compared to Daunte.

Just so you know, this has nothing to do w/ Daunte going to Miami and Ramsey to the Jets. I ahve been saying this stuff for years. I was very fearful you guys would get Ramsey in the last 2 years. Daunte has more ability but Pat is the unknown, I THINK he can be good but I don't know while I know what daunte brings and it's not what I would look for in a QB.

Brady is still the best even with Daunte coming over. Can't believe I just said that.

Did anyone think Daunte was even anywhere near Brady? It's insulting to Brady to even compare the 2.

 

[Section126]

Of course I don't have any evidence. how can a 13 rating again the Giants be evidence? How can leading a team to 17 pts at Ari in a do or die game when Ari was 4-12 and had been giving up 33/gm for 8 weeks be evidence? How can leading your team to 10 pts in the competitive portion of the game in what was supposed to be a do or die game(luckily they let 2 8-8 teams in) at 6-10 Wash? Yeah ther's no evidence:rolleyes2

There isn't any evidence...you named a couple of instances that are DEBATABLE at that. I guess you have no evidence.

So? Does that mean in that creampuff div and conf he couldn't get to the playoffs more often? It didn't hurt Carson palmer last year? in '02 Chad ha da D in the mid 20s and he won the toughest div in the NFL, last year the Vikes D stunk yet they were 2-5 w/ Daunte and 7-2 w/o him, Dan never had great D's and he always seemed to make the playoffs expet for a few year stretch in the late 80s.

Not his fault. He put up huge numbers. That division had the Bucs and Packers...how were they creampuffs when Daunte was playing in Mini? remember that the Bucs won a superbowl while playing in that division and were a perenial "tough" playoff team. Green Bay was always good. How is that "creampuff"?

Daunte is NOT close to being a top 5 QB, not even close. He is a fantasy QB and that's it AND he's damaged goods.

He just happens to be a top 5 QB...that is not me saying it...that is what every personnel man in the NFL thinks....A poll of NFL GM's in 2004 had him as the 3rd best in the league.

Just so you know, this has nothing to do w/ Daunte going to Miami and Ramsey to the Jets. I ahve been saying this stuff for years. I was very fearful you guys would get Ramsey in the last 2 years. Daunte has more ability but Pat is the unknown, I THINK he can be good but I don't know while I know what daunte brings and it's not what I would look for in a QB.

Fair enough.

.

nyjunc...you really our out on a limb with this one.

 

[NTLumberjack]

New Beast?

Brady has allot of years left in him, ask about a new beast in 6-7 years.

 

[Marino1983]

Daunte is NOT close to being a top 5 QB, not even close. He is a fantasy QB and that's it AND he's damaged goods.

And Pennington IS? Has Pennington PLAYED a 16 game season yet?
:rolleyes2

Just so you know, this has nothing to do w/ Daunte going to Miami and Ramsey to the Jets. I ahve been saying this stuff for years. I was very fearful you guys would get Ramsey in the last 2 years. Daunte has more ability but Pat is the unknown, I THINK he can be good but I don't know while I know what daunte brings and it's not what I would look for in a QB.

Oh yea right and if Culpepper would have been traded to ANY other team in the NFL all YOUR spews would be about what a great pickup for that team Dante was and how a change of scenery would do him good!!
WTF has P Ramsey done in the 4 years he was a Skin??? How can ANY credible fan give him a better review than a qb that has taken his team to the playoffs and been a pro bowl representative???????

If Culpepper is in YOUR words "overrated" even though he has been a productive qb,, what the hell would YOU classify Ramsey then???
:shakeno:

Marino1983

 

[cnc66]

nyjunc...you really our out on a limb with this one.

he's grasping at any and everything Section...they ALL are...and it's funny as hell. Last year they were all laughing out loud and hoping Nick would flop. This year they're laughing at the new players because laughing at the coach doesn't work anymore...and neither does laughing at our "better than them" record. Kinna like dog peter gnats...annoying, but no more, and besides, they always leave when the sun gets bright.

Cherry pick all the stats ya'll want, bottom line, we just got much better and Penny got a paycut. Funny how it's only the guys with no quarterback that are jawing about ours.

 

[nyjunc]

There isn't any evidence...you named a couple of instances that are DEBATABLE at that. I guess you have no evidence.

Uh no that's evidence, the fact that you choose to ignore is your problem and I guess you'll be shocked when you watch it live in the coming years.

Not his fault. He put up huge numbers. That division had the Bucs and Packers...how were they creampuffs when Daunte was playing in Mini?

Since 2001 the NFC Central/North has won THREE playoff games, that's 3 playoff games in 5 years and 1 of those wins was a game btw 2 teams in the NFC North and that team was promptly booted a week later.

Since 2001 they have had just 8 teams w/ a winning record(less than 2 per year) and have had only 8 playoff teams(3 of them came in 2001 in the NFC Central).

Let's compare that w/ the AFC East:

Since 2001 the AFC East has won 12 playoff games and 3 SBs. yes NE has won most of those playoff games but the Jets have a couple and only 1 NFC Cent/North team has 2 PO wins in that time and that was GB.

Since 2001 the AFC East has had 13(over 2.5 per year) teams w/ winning records and 8 playoff teams.

remember that the Bucs won a superbowl while playing in that division and were a perenial "tough" playoff team.

TB won the SB while playing in the NFC South, they realigned in '02 which was the year they won it.

Green Bay was always good. How is that "creampuff"?

GB lost 45-17 in the playoffs in '01, lost in the WC rd at home in '02, lost a clsoe one in div rd in '03, lost at home in the WC rd to an 8-8 team and won 4 games in '05. This was not the '93-'98 packers, they were making the playoffs mostly b/c they were taking advantage of playing in such a weak division.

He just happens to be a top 5 QB...that is not me saying it...that is what every personnel man in the NFL thinks....A poll of NFL GM's in 2004 had him as the 3rd best in the league.

That's all based on stats, the only stat the counts is wins and losses. Keep in mind it took until about '04 for people to include Tom Brady near the top and Brady has been the best QB in the league for a few years now.

Oh yea right and if Culpepper would have been traded to ANY other team in the NFL all YOUR spews would be about what a great pickup for that team Dante was and how a change of scenery would do him good!!

I don't have time now b/c the Carolina game is about to start but I'll find my arguments about Daunte from last year on this site and post the links when I get some time.

he's grasping at any and everything Section...they ALL are...and it's funny as hell. Last year they were all laughing out loud and hoping Nick would flop. This year they're laughing at the new players because laughing at the coach doesn't work anymore...

Pull up my posts where I was laughing at Saban, I said all along I thought Saban would be a good HC I just said nothing was guaranteed like some were talking and it would take 2-3 years to become contenders.

 

[Vertical Limit]

Just so you people know, Tampa Bay and Minnesota were never in the same division.

Minnesota, Green Bay, Detroit, Chicago.

Green Bay, Detroit,and Chicago's defenses were horrible 2 years ago during Daunte's 39 TD season.

AFC East is a division filled with teams that have Top 15 defense.

 

[Section126]

Just so you people know, Tampa Bay and Minnesota were never in the same division.

.

Really? You do know that they were in the same division for about 24 years right? :sidelol:

 

[Nublar7]

Just so you people know, Tampa Bay and Minnesota were never in the same division.
Minnesota, Green Bay, Detroit, Chicago.

Green Bay, Detroit,and Chicago's defenses were horrible 2 years ago during Daunte's 39 TD season.

AFC East is a division filled with teams that have Top 15 defense.

I guess you don't remember the old NFC Central.

 

[The New Guy]

When healthy, I can’t think of more than 5 QB’s besides Culpepper I would rather have on my team. I know some think that he is not a top 5 QB, but the numbers don’t lie. He is a huge upgrade for us. Gus’s QB rating last year for us was 71.9. Culpepper’s QB rating last year was 72.0. That’s right, even with Culpepper’s worst season as a pro, he had a better QB rating than our last QB did. NYjunc says he performs badly in the playoffs. He’s 2-2 in the playoffs. His career playoff numbers are pretty respectable -- 73/134, 980 yds, 8 TDs and 5 INTs (82.3 rating) He had one terrible game against the Giants in 2001, a mediocre one against the Eagles in 2004, and two very good ones against the Saints in '01 and the Packers in '04 (total of 36/60, 618 yds, 7 TDs, 0 INTs Keep in mind that the game against the Giants was basically his rookie season. The AFC EAST right now is in my opinion weaker than the old NFC Central was. The Dolphins basically have the Pats to deal with; other than that the EAST is weak, so I don’t think Culpepper is going to suffer switching divisions. Culpepper has a career QB rating of 91.5. Tom Brady has a career rating of 88.5, that’s not to say that Culpepper is better than Brady, but it is to show that Culpepper is a top 5 QB. Brady did not have a great playoff game against the Broncos. He had 1 TD 2 Ints and a QB rating of 74.0. Does that mean Brady can’t perform in the playoffs anymore? That’s silly. Football is a team sport. You can say Minny was 2-5 with Culpepper, and 7-2 without him, but you fail to take into account all the variables, injuries, team play, Ect…

 

[kizzaboo]

nyjunc

Pep puts up the numbers when in the right system and a good offensive supporting cast.. but still the vikes loose games.. now what does that tell you about the team? It was not the offense, it was the defense. Yes QB is the most important player on the team, but its hard to argue that defense wins championships and that coaches are a HUGE part of it.

Culpepper was surrounded, for several years, good wideouts, an average TE, average line, no runningbacks, no defense, and no coach and didnt win a champion so that means he is not a winner?

Culpepper comes to Miami:

lighter (quicker faster)

ahead of schedule in his rehab.

In the same offense in which he flourished
Chambers (PB) Booker (PB)
possibly Kelly Cambell was once one of Peps wideouts
McMicheal (PB)
Brown - Considered to have the best hands in last years draft by many and definetly the best recieving skills for a runningback in since faulk

a vastly improved line that continues to improve with the best OL coach plus the edition of Shelton

A very very good coach and possibly a great one, we will see.

A Defense with a great d-line, above average linebackers and maybe even better with Arrington/Peterson, otherwise a 1st round draft choice such as Manny Lawson, young and improving cbs and safeties who are being coached by none other than Saban himself.

The table is set for Culpepper to succeed

 

[nyjunc]

When healthy, I can’t think of more than 5 QB’s besides Culpepper I would rather have on my team. I know some think that he is not a top 5 QB, but the numbers don’t lie. He is a huge upgrade for us. Gus’s QB rating last year for us was 71.9. Culpepper’s QB rating last year was 72.0. That’s right, even with Culpepper’s worst season as a pro, he had a better QB rating than our last QB did.

Numbers do lie, yeah his rating and #s are better than Gus' but you won 9 games w/ Gus and when Daunte put up all time great #s in '04 he won 8 in a MUCH weaker conference. You can have a QB w/ great #s all you want, I'll take the guy w/ lesser #s who wins more.

NYjunc says he performs badly in the playoffs. He’s 2-2 in the playoffs. His career playoff numbers are pretty respectable -- 73/134, 980 yds, 8 TDs and 5 INTs (82.3 rating) He had one terrible game against the Giants in 2001, a mediocre one against the Eagles in 2004, and two very good ones against the Saints in '01 and the Packers in '04 (total of 36/60, 618 yds, 7 TDs, 0 INTs

They are not respectable, they played against 3 mediore teams and one really good team. he beat 2 of the medicore teams and played well but waas atrocious in another and just bad in another.

The AFC EAST right now is in my opinion weaker than the old NFC Central was.

He only played 2 years in the NFC Central, his last 4 years have been in the brutally weak NFC North.

The Dolphins basically have the Pats to deal with; other than that the EAST is weak,

things change quickly, remember a year ago most thought the Jets would push NE for the div and we came in last. Injuries happen and can turn seasons in a hurry.

Culpepper has a career QB rating of 91.5. Tom Brady has a career rating of 88.5

That's all we need to know, Daunte culpepper isn't half the QB Brady is and he has much better fantasy #s but Brady wins.

Brady did not have a great playoff game against the Broncos. He had 1 TD 2 Ints and a QB rating of 74.0. Does that mean Brady can’t perform in the playoffs anymore?

Do you expect him to win the SB EVERY year? That was his first playoff loss and his 74 rating would be 3rd on Daunte's list.

Pep puts up the numbers when in the right system and a good offensive supporting cast.. but still the vikes loose games.. now what does that tell you about the team? It was not the offense, it was the defense. Yes QB is the most important player on the team, but its hard to argue that defense wins championships and that coaches are a HUGE part of it.

Once again, it's not Championships. I can buy the theory about the D and Championships but in a very weka div and conf he only made the playoffs twice and once was at 8-8. I don't care how bad his D is, carson Palmer's D was ranked 28th this yar and we led Cincy to 11 wins in a division that had the SB Champ in it while Daunte's D was ranked 28th, 26th and 25th from '01-'03 and he didn't make 1 PO appearance. The D is just an excuse, check how many time's Miami's D was in the bottom 3rd of the league and Marino still led you to the playoffs in most years.

You can out a PB next to Booker but he hasn't ben a PBer in about 4-5 years. Chambers had a great year last year but he needs to prove it wasn't a fluke. You have excellent skill players around daunte BUT you need major upgrades on the OL(and no LJ Shelton doesn't cut it) and we know daunte will put up #s- the question is will he win. In the past he has shrunk to a man half his size in big games.

 

[kizzaboo]

Once again, it's not Championships. I can buy the theory about the D and Championships but in a very weka div and conf he only made the playoffs twice and once was at 8-8. I don't care how bad his D is, carson Palmer's D was ranked 28th this yar and we led Cincy to 11 wins in a division that had the SB Champ in it while Daunte's D was ranked 28th, 26th and 25th from '01-'03 and he didn't make 1 PO appearance. The D is just an excuse, check how many time's Miami's D was in the bottom 3rd of the league and Marino still led you to the playoffs in most years.

You can out a PB next to Booker but he hasn't ben a PBer in about 4-5 years. Chambers had a great year last year but he needs to prove it wasn't a fluke. You have excellent skill players around daunte BUT you need major upgrades on the OL(and no LJ Shelton doesn't cut it) and we know daunte will put up #s- the question is will he win. In the past he has shrunk to a man half his size in big games.

So basicly because his team did not win as many games as the QBs you mentioned, that had great individual season so he is not a respected top 10, maybe top 5 QB in this league, let alone the 2nd best QB in the AFCE behind the best QB in the entire NFL right now? I live in Vike country and have watched him play almost every sunday for years. The Viking defense has lost them more games in the second half than I can count. His sucess as a QB is shaped by his play not the lowly Vikes and thier choking franchise. Plz, say you wouldnt want him on your team?

Clevelands former always O-linemen play well after departing, no reason to believe he wont either. Shelton at LT James at RG Hadnot at Center and Carey at Guard would only leave us with RT, which is a void that could easily be filled in the 1st. O-line takes coaching and gelling with the starters, not 5 big name FAs and miami should do both of that with another year together and with Houck.