Which QB will be the new Beast in the East.

[nyjunc]

So basicly because his team did not win as many games as the QBs you mentioned, that had great individual season so he is not a respected top 10, maybe top 5 QB in this league, let alone the 2nd best QB in the AFCE behind the best QB in the entire NFL right now?

Depending upon how healthy Chad is he probably is the 2nd best QB in the division now but that's not saying much.

Plz, say you wouldnt want him on your team?

Absolutely not, when it was rumored he may come here I went nuts. I did not want him here under any circumstances.

Clevelands former always O-linemen play well after departing, no reason to believe he wont either. Shelton at LT James at RG Hadnot at Center and Carey at Guard would only leave us with RT, which is a void that could easily be filled in the 1st. O-line takes coaching and gelling with the starters, not 5 big name FAs and miami should do both of that with another year together and with Houck.

We'll see, if your OL improves you have all the pieces in place for a dynamic offense. My biggest question is Daunte, maybe he proves me wrong and you guys can all come back and crow about it to me but I'm not a fan and I don't see it happening.

 

[The New Guy]

This will be my last post defending Culpepper. Saying 73/134, 980 yds, 8 TDs and 5 INTs (82.3 rating) in the playoffs is not respectable is crazy. Could you tell me what Peyton Manning’s playoff record is? It’s 3-6, including a 41-0 beating by the Jets and a 20-3 loss against the Pats. Not to good in my book. Are you going to tell me that you don’t want Peyton Manning on your team because he chokes?

Numbers do lie, yeah his rating and #s are better than Gus' but you won 9 games w/ Gus and when Daunte put up all time great #s in '04 he won 8 in a MUCH weaker conference.You can have a QB w/ great #s all you want, I'll take the guy w/ lesser #s who wins more

#’s show how a QB is doing his job. If a QB has bad #’s and the team is winning, that does not mean that he is a good QB. Jay Feidler has a great record as a starting QB. Would you like him to be your starter next year? Jay has a good record because he had a good team around him. You can have the QB with w/ lesser #’s who wins more, but since the Jets don’t have a good team to hide the QB’s flaws, that is not going to work out to well.

Do you expect Brady to win the SB EVERY year?

Brady is a good QB on good team. If playoff performances were just based on QB play only, I would expect Brady to win the Super Bowl every year, since he is considered the best QB in the NFL. You are going to see that as the Pats start to dismantle, Brady is going to start losing a lot more playoff games. (If he gets there).

things change quickly, remember a year ago most thought the Jets would push NE for the div and we came in last. Injuries happen and can turn seasons in a hurry.

That just adds to my point. Injuries will only make a team worse, not better. My point was that besides the Phins (which Culpepper is playing for) the Pats are the only decent team that he will face in the division.

Depending upon how healthy Chad is he probably is the 2nd best QB in the division now but that's not saying much.

How can you say that? How many Pro Bowls has Pennington been to? Pennington has not done anything in the playoffs and has lesser #’s than Culpepper. You can't take away Culpepper's great playoff performances because you think he played against a bad team. Ask any unbiased NFL fan who the 2nd best QB in the AFC EAST is, and you will find that 100% of them will say Culpepper. I believe even Bradshaw would tell you that. The only other thing I can say is wait and see. I am very, very confident that the Phins will have a better win / loss record than the Jets and the Bills, maybe even the Pats. How the Phins will perform in the playoffs is up to the team, not just the QB.

 

[nyjunc]

This will be my last post defending Culpepper. Saying 73/134, 980 yds, 8 TDs and 5 INTs (82.3 rating) in the playoffs is not respectable is crazy.

You can't combine his #s, he has very good #s against teams that were mediocre at best and never would have amde the playoffs in the AFC then he was humiliated against a medicore Giant team and was bad against a good Philly team.

Could you tell me what Peyton Manning’s playoff record is? It’s 3-6, including a 41-0 beating by the Jets and a 20-3 loss against the Pats. Not to good in my book.

The '02 Jet team was as good as Philly '04 which was the only good team Daunte faced in the playoffs and the Pats were a dynasty. Daunte was shut out by the giants- what do yo think he would have done against the '02 Jets and any of those Pats teams?

#’s show how a QB is doing his job. If a QB has bad #’s and the team is winning, that does not mean that he is a good QB. Jay Feidler has a great record as a starting QB. Would you like him to be your starter next year? Jay has a good record because he had a good team around him. You can have the QB with w/ lesser #’s who wins more, but since the Jets don’t have a good team to hide the QB’s flaws, that is not going to work out to well.

If Jay was a little younger and more durable absolutely I would take him. This game is not about #s it's about winning. Jay took a team that was pronounced dead after Dan and JJ left and led you to your only division title in the last 11 seasons. He took a team WORSE than what Dan had the previous couple of years and won 11 gams in '00 and '01 which you hasn't done since '92.

Brady is a good QB on good team. If playoff performances were just based on QB play only, I would expect Brady to win the Super Bowl every year, since he is considered the best QB in the NFL. You are going to see that as the Pats start to dismantle, Brady is going to start losing a lot more playoff games. (If he gets there).

Brady is not a GOOD QB he is a GREAT QB and BY FAR the best in the game- BY FAR. He is the perfect example, b/c he doesn't lead the league in fantasy #s people underrate him but the man makes plays. remember NE was floundering before he stepped on the field. They had gone 5-11 in '00 and started 0-2 w/ Drew in '01. Brady is magic and BY FAR the best QB in the game today.

That just adds to my point. Injuries will only make a team worse, not better. My point was that besides the Phins (which Culpepper is playing for) the Pats are the only decent team that he will face in the division.

First off you guys went 9-7 and were I think 3-7 then w/ meaningless games you went ona win strak. Don't assume you are going to be great, you still have alot of work to do and we didn't ave to cut as many guys as people thought and we still have a very good young D. We'll be ok as of today and we still have alot of moves to make. We will not be 4-12 again and when we were 4-12 we beat you once and nearly swept you.

How can you say that? How many Pro Bowls has Pennington been to? Pennington has not done anything in the playoffs and has lesser #’s than Culpepper.

I acknowledge that Daunte is the btter fantasy QB but I want a QB that WINS and when Chad is in there the Jets win. Just read below:

-Since 2002 Chad has been the starter for the Jets, in the 2 seasons he played at least 3/4 of games the Jets won the div in '02 and in both years made the div rd. In the 2 years he didn't play at least 3/4 of games the Jets won 10 games in 2 years combined. Since '02 w/ Chad the Jets are 21-16(2 losses occurred in very winnable games after he got hurt) and w/o him the Jets are 12-19.

-Since 2000 Daunte has been the starter in Minny and has guided them to the playoffs just twice(one time at 8-8) in a weak div and conf. In the games he has started Minny is 38-42, in the 16 games he has missed since 2001 the Vikings are 10-6.

Let's seperate those #s:

Jets w/ Chad: 21-16
Jets w/o Chad: 12-19

Vikes w/ daunte: 38-42
Vikes w/o Daunte: 10-6

let's also not forget that the Jets have played in the much tougher div and conference having not only a conf full of great teams but a dynasty team w/in it's division.

He is a fantasy QB, he is not a winner.

 

[DaBills4life]

Let's seperate those #s:

Jets w/ Chad: 21-16
Jets w/o Chad: 12-19

Vikes w/ daunte: 38-42
Vikes w/o Daunte: 10-6

let's also not forget that the Jets have played in the much tougher div and conference having not only a conf full of great teams but a dynasty team w/in it's division.

He is a fantasy QB, he is not a winner.

Even though my QB's dont compare to Pennington, Brady, and Daunte....

The New Guy just got :0wned:

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

I acknowledge that Daunte is the btter fantasy QB but I want a QB that WINS and when Chad is in there the Jets win. Just read below:

-Since 2002 Chad has been the starter for the Jets, in the 2 seasons he played at least 3/4 of games the Jets won the div in '02 and in both years made the div rd. In the 2 years he didn't play at least 3/4 of games the Jets won 10 games in 2 years combined. Since '02 w/ Chad the Jets are 21-16(2 losses occurred in very winnable games after he got hurt) and w/o him the Jets are 12-19.

-Since 2000 Daunte has been the starter in Minny and has guided them to the playoffs just twice(one time at 8-8) in a weak div and conf. In the games he has started Minny is 38-42, in the 16 games he has missed since 2001 the Vikings are 10-6.

Let's seperate those #s:

Jets w/ Chad: 21-16
Jets w/o Chad: 12-19

Vikes w/ daunte: 38-42
Vikes w/o Daunte: 10-6

let's also not forget that the Jets have played in the much tougher div and conference having not only a conf full of great teams but a dynasty team w/in it's division.

He is a fantasy QB, he is not a winner.

You are forgetting that you are debating Dolphin fans. We have a long history of defending great QBs who have a worse record than they deserve. In the year that the Vikings went 8-8, they scored 405 points. They were second in the NFC in scoring. They gave up 395 points. How is that Culpepper's fault?

When they went 6-10, they scored 390 points (6th in the NFC) and gave up 442 points. What position does Culpepper play on defense?

Let me break it down for you:

2000 - 397 points scored, 371 points allowed
2001 - 290 points scored, 390 points allowed (Culpepper only played 11 games)
2002 - 390 points scored, 442 points allowed
2003 - 416 points scored, 353 points allowed
2004 - 405 points scored, 395 points allowed

Let's examine the 2005 season more closely. You like to point out that the Vikings did better after Culpepper got hurt. How about checking out who the Vikings faced with Culpeper and Johnson at QB?

Culpepper faced:
Week 1 Sep 11 L 24-13 vs Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Week 2 Sep 18 L 37-8 at Cincinnati Bengals
Week 3 Sep 25 W 33-16 vs New Orleans Saints
Week 4 Oct 2 L 30-10 at Atlanta Falcons
Week 5 Bye Week
Week 6 Oct 16 L 28-3 at Chicago Bears
Week 7 Oct 23 W 23-20 vs Green Bay Packers

Johnson faced:
Week 8 Oct 30 L 38-13 at Carolina Panthers
Week 9 Nov 6 W 27-14 vs Detroit Lions
Week 10 Nov 13 W 24-21 at New York Giants
Week 11 Nov 21 W 20-17 at Green Bay Packers
Week 12 Nov 27 W 24-12 vs Cleveland Browns
Week 13 Dec 4 W 21-16 at Detroit Lions
Week 14 Dec 11 W 27-13 vs St. Louis Rams
Week 15 Dec 18 L 18-3 vs Pittsburgh Steelers
Week 16 Dec 25 L 30-23 at Baltimore Ravens
Week 17 Jan 1 W 34-10 vs Chicago Bears


Culpepper faced the much tougher schedule. The Vikings also gave up a lot fewer points in the second half of the season.

Sorry, but I'm plenty happy to have Culpepper. I'll be happy if my offense scores 400 points per year. The last time the Dolphins scored 400 points in a season was 1986!!!!!! The last time they came close was 1995 (with 398).

The job of the offense is to score points. If the defense gives up more.....

I'LL BLAME THE DEFENSE

 

[nyjunc]

You are forgetting that you are debating Dolphin fans. We have a long history of defending great QBs who have a worse record than they deserve. In the year that the Vikings went 8-8, they scored 405 points. They were second in the NFC in scoring. They gave up 395 points. How is that Culpepper's fault?

Yet when they needed 1 win to assure them of a playoff spot in Week 17 at washington all daunte could lead Minny to was 10 pts in the competitive portion of the game(they scored a meaningless TD w/ 2 secs left). was that the D's fault? was it the D's fault that in '03 he ld them to 17 pts in Week 17 at Arizona when Arizona had averaged giving up 33/gm for 8 weeks?

-Last year Cincy was 28th in D and carson Palmer won 11 games and they beat out the SB Champs for the div title.

-In '04 Indy was 29th in D yet manning ld them to 12 wins and a trip to the div rd.

-In '03 KC was 29th in D yet Trent Green led them to 13 wins.

-In '02 the Jets were 24th in D yet Chad led them back from 1-4 and they won the AFC East(the only team other than NE since 2001).

-In '02 Atl was 23rd in D yet vick led them to the div rd.

-In '04 Gb was 25th in D yet Favre led them to the div title.

-Last year the Giants were 24th in D yet Eli led them to a div title.

-In '03 Philly was 22nd in D yet McNabb led them to the NFC Title Game.

-in '04 Sea was 26th yet hasslebeck led them to the playoffs.

-In '00 SL was 24th yet they made the playoffs behind warner and Green.

-in '99 Wash was 29th in D yet Brad Johnson led them to the div rd.


Last year Minny was 21st in D and 2-5 w/ daunte while 7-2 w/o him.

Let's examine the 2005 season more closely. You like to point out that the Vikings did better after Culpepper got hurt. How about checking out who the Vikings faced with Culpeper and Johnson at QB?

I hear that alot from Daunte backers but then they tell me how well he did w/o Moss in '04 and the only ood team he faced in that span was Indy and Indy's D stunk.

Let's look at daunte's overall record and the quality of teams he beat.

'00: Started 16 games(11-5)

Against over .500 teams: 4-5, beat 2 playoff teams
Against .500 or below teams: 7-0

'01: Started 11 games(4-7, team was 1-4 w/o him)

Against over .500 teams: 2-5, beat 2 playoff teams
Against .500 or below: 2-2(only win for 1-15 carolina)

'02: Started 16 games(6-10)

Against over .500 teams: 3-6, beat 1 playoff team.
Against .500 or below: 3-4

'03: Started 14 games(7-7, team was 2-0 w/o him)

Against over. 500 teams: 4-2, beat 3 PO teams
Against .500 or below: 3-5

'04: Started 16 games(8-8)

Against over .500 teams: 1-5, didn't beat any playoff teams
Against .500 or below: 7-3

'05: Started 7 games(2-5, team was 7-2 w/o him)

Against over .500 teams: 0-4
Against .500 or below: 2-1


Overall: 38-42

Against over .500 teams: 14-27
Against .500 or below: 24-15

Team w/ Daunte: 38-42(48%)
Team w/o Daunte: 10-6(63%)

Culpepper faced the much tougher schedule. The Vikings also gave up a lot fewer points in the second half of the season.

You don't think Daunte's 3 INts vs. TB led to some TB pts? you don't think his 5 INts led to some pts at Cincy? or his 4 INts at Atl & Chi? Maybe the D started playing better when the QB stopped turning it over?

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Yet when they needed 1 win to assure them of a playoff spot in Week 17 at washington all daunte could lead Minny to was 10 pts in the competitive portion of the game(they scored a meaningless TD w/ 2 secs left). was that the D's fault? was it the D's fault that in '03 he ld them to 17 pts in Week 17 at Arizona when Arizona had averaged giving up 33/gm for 8 weeks?

-Last year Cincy was 28th in D and carson Palmer won 11 games and they beat out the SB Champs for the div title.

-In '04 Indy was 29th in D yet manning ld them to 12 wins and a trip to the div rd.

-In '03 KC was 29th in D yet Trent Green led them to 13 wins.

-In '02 the Jets were 24th in D yet Chad led them back from 1-4 and they won the AFC East(the only team other than NE since 2001).

-In '02 Atl was 23rd in D yet vick led them to the div rd.

-In '04 Gb was 25th in D yet Favre led them to the div title.

-Last year the Giants were 24th in D yet Eli led them to a div title.

-In '03 Philly was 22nd in D yet McNabb led them to the NFC Title Game.

-in '04 Sea was 26th yet hasslebeck led them to the playoffs.

-In '00 SL was 24th yet they made the playoffs behind warner and Green.

-in '99 Wash was 29th in D yet Brad Johnson led them to the div rd.

All very interesting but completely irrelevent.... Since Culpepper has been Minn's QB the problem has been defense not offense. Averaging 400 points per year is good enough. Period. End of sentence.

Last year Minny was 21st in D and 2-5 w/ daunte while 7-2 w/o him.

Sorry, the loss to Carolina is on Johnson. Culpepper was 3-4 and 1 rush for 18 yds before he got hurt. Johnson played to bulk of that game.

I hear that alot from Daunte backers but then they tell me how well he did w/o Moss in '04 and the only ood team he faced in that span was Indy and Indy's D stunk.

Let's look at daunte's overall record and the quality of teams he beat.

'00: Started 16 games(11-5)

Against over .500 teams: 4-5, beat 2 playoff teams
Against .500 or below teams: 7-0

'01: Started 11 games(4-7, team was 1-4 w/o him)

Against over .500 teams: 2-5, beat 2 playoff teams
Against .500 or below: 2-2(only win for 1-15 carolina)

'02: Started 16 games(6-10)

Against over .500 teams: 3-6, beat 1 playoff team.
Against .500 or below: 3-4

'03: Started 14 games(7-7, team was 2-0 w/o him)

Against over. 500 teams: 4-2, beat 3 PO teams
Against .500 or below: 3-5

'04: Started 16 games(8-8)

Against over .500 teams: 1-5, didn't beat any playoff teams
Against .500 or below: 7-3

'05: Started 7 games(2-5, team was 7-2 w/o him)

Against over .500 teams: 0-4
Against .500 or below: 2-1


Overall: 38-42

Against over .500 teams: 14-27
Against .500 or below: 24-15

Team w/ Daunte: 38-42(48%)
Team w/o Daunte: 10-6(63%)




You don't think Daunte's 3 INts vs. TB led to some TB pts? you don't think his 5 INts led to some pts at Cincy? or his 4 INts at Atl & Chi? Maybe the D started playing better when the QB stopped turning it over?

You're missing the point. THE JOB OF THE OFFENSE IS TO SCORE. How many teams have put up more points on average than the Culpepper-led Vikings? I'm sure the number is less than 10, probably closer to 5.

The Vikings performance against good teams is more of a reflection of the defense than the offense.

Seriously, you can look at these numbers and blame the offense??????

2000 - 397 points scored, 371 points allowed
2001 - 290 points scored, 390 points allowed (Culpepper only played 11 games)
2002 - 390 points scored, 442 points allowed
2003 - 416 points scored, 353 points allowed
2004 - 405 points scored, 395 points allowed

 

[nyjunc]

You're missing the point. THE JOB OF THE OFFENSE IS TO SCORE. How many teams have put up more points on average than the Culpepper-led Vikings? I'm sure the number is less than 10, probably closer to 5.

Do we ignore the big games where he has come up small? leading the Vikes to ZERO pts against the Giants? 17 against Ari when Ari waas giving up 33/gm, 10 in the competitive portion of the game at Wash, 7 in the competitive portion of the Philly game.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Do we ignore the big games where he has come up small? leading the Vikes to ZERO pts against the Giants? 17 against Ari when Ari waas giving up 33/gm, 10 in the competitive portion of the game at Wash, 7 in the competitive portion of the Philly game.

You don't ignore the bad games, but you don't ignore the good games either. I hate the "big games" argument. Every game in the NFL is a big game. The goal is to win them all.

BTW, his bad game against the Giants was in his first year as a starter. The 17 points against Ari came at the end of the season where they scored 416 points. That was only a must game, beause their defense sucked... again. For every low scoring game he played, I can name two or more where they scored plenty.

Please, come up with an argument for the Vikings being among the highest scoring teams in the NFL with Culpepper at QB......

BTW, you didn't anwer my question about how many teams have scored more....

 

[nyjunc]

The Vikings performance against good teams is more of a reflection of the defense than the offense.

Games against Playoff teams:

2000:

-Miami: W 13-7. D holds Miami to 7 pts, daunte leads Minny to 13 pts and 69 rating- threw 3 INTs and 1 TDs.
-TB: W 30-23. Great game, throws 2 Tds to 1 INt and has 130 rating lading Minny to 30 pts. Minny D actually held TB to 13 pts as TB scored on a blocked kick.
-at TB: L 41-13. Daunte leads Minny to 13 pts on 29 of 53, 1 TD 2 INts(including 1 for a TD) when Minny was only down 21-10. This was the first game the D played poorly and yet they were still in it until a Daunte INT changed the game.
-at SL: L 40-29. This ws on the D, daunte played ell w/ 3 TDs and 0 INTs BUT he didn't lead Minny to a score until it was 17-0 SL.
-at Indy: L 31-10 Only led Minny to 10 pts against Indy D. this was a combo of bad D bad O.

In 2000 the D played very well in 2 and poor in 3 while the O played poorly in 3 and well in 2 so it was equal and they went 2-3 against playoff teams. In the playoffs they both played well against NO and both were embarrassing against the Giants.

2001(just a note, Minny was Carolina's ONLY win that year and Daunte led them to 13 pts against the 1-15 panthers):

-at Chi: L 17-10. D held Chi to 17 but daunt could only manage 10 pts.
-TB: W 20-16. Daunte didn't have great game(1 TD, 2 INT) BUT more importantly he leads Minny on GW drive late but D also plays well holding TB to 16.
-GB: W 35-13. O and D play well in rout of GB. D adds TD on INT return.
-at TB: L 41-14. Both O and D stink, Minny was down 31-0 at 1 point.
-at Philly: L 48-17. Philly jumps out to 31-3 lead, both O and D stink. daunte gets a few garbage time TDs.
-vs. Chi: L 13-6. D plays well O stinks. Daunte has 59 rating, throws 46 passes w/ 0 TDs.
-vs. Pitt: L 21-16. D plays well keeping Minny in game but Minny cannot get any O going until Daunte is yanked for Todd Boumann and Minny gets back to 21-16 but can't pull it off.
-at GB: L 24-13. Daunte did not play.
-at Bal: L19-3- DNP.

In '01 they go 2-5 against playof teams w/ daunte. D played well 4 games, daunte's O played well 2 games.

'02:

-at NYJ: L 20-7. daunte leads Vikes to just 7 points, had a big INT early and also threw one in the EZ. had 0 TDs and 3 INts on the day, D kept Minny in the game.
-at TB: L 38-24. Both D and O stunk, yes daunte led them to 24 pts but TB was up 24-7 and it was never a game plus daunte threw 2 INTs and 0 TDs.
-NYG: L 27-20. D kept Minny in game, daunte was yanked and Minny made late rally but fell short.
-GB: W 31-21. Throws 2 INts but leads Minny to win after game was tied 21-21 in 4th. D did good job to hold on. Both played well.
-ATL: L 30-24(OT). Daunte has 1 TD and 3 INTs which put D in bad spots.
-at GB: L 26-22. Daunte not great but Minny was up 19-6 in 3rd, this is on D.

1-5 against playoff teams. D played well in 4 games, daunte's O played well in 2 games.


2003:

-at GB: W 30-25. Culpepepr played well, D allowed some garbage time TDs. Both played well.
-Den: W 28-20. Culpepper played well but key play in game was Moss lateral on last play of 1st half. Both Daunte and D played well. D scored on INT return.
-GB: L 30-27. Culpepper played well, this was on D.
-at SL: L 48-17. Daunte wasn't bad but D kept allowing points, i'll put this on the D.
-vs. Sea: W 34-7. Both played well, Daunte had 3 TDs and D scored a TD.
-vs. KC: W 45-20. Both played well.

4-2 record against playoff teams. D plays well in 4, daunte's O played well in all 6. this was Daunte's best year against good teams.


2004:

-at Philly: L 27-16: both bad.
-at Indy: L 31-28. Daunte had 1 TD but led Minny to 28 pts w/o Moss against bad Indy D. This loss is on the D although Minny did score on a PR so daunte only led them to 20 pts(also got 2 pt conv).
-at GB: L 34-32. daunte played well, D did not. 4 TDs 0 INTs.
-Sea: L 27-23. This is on both, Seattle was not playing well coming into this game and Minny blew it.
- GB: L 34-31. On D, Daunte threw 3 TDs and 0 INts giving him 7 against GB in 2 games.

Minny was 0-5 against playoff teams. The D played well in 0 games, Daunte played well in 3 games. In the playoffs daunte again beat up the bad GB D and again struggled against Philly.

2005:

-TB: L 24-23. Daunte was awful w/ 3 INs, D was good enough.
-at Cincy: L 37-8. The D was bad but Daunte threw 5 INTs against a bad Cincy D.
-at Chi: L 28-3. 2 mroe INTs w/ 0 TDs for Daunte. D wasn't horrible, kept them in it for a while bit O could not score.


0-3 and 3 bad games for Daunte and 2 good games for D.


The totals:

record against playoff teams: 9-23
D playd well in 16 games, daunte's O played well in 15(the # is skewed b/c he really had 1 good year against playoff teams and that was '03 yet against a 4-12 team he couldn't get it done to get them in the playoffs.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Games against Playoff teams:

2000:

-Miami: W 13-7. D holds Miami to 7 pts, daunte leads Minny to 13 pts and 69 rating- threw 3 INTs and 1 TDs.
-TB: W 30-23. Great game, throws 2 Tds to 1 INt and has 130 rating lading Minny to 30 pts. Minny D actually held TB to 13 pts as TB scored on a blocked kick.
-at TB: L 41-13. Daunte leads Minny to 13 pts on 29 of 53, 1 TD 2 INts(including 1 for a TD) when Minny was only down 21-10. This was the first game the D played poorly and yet they were still in it until a Daunte INT changed the game.
-at SL: L 40-29. This ws on the D, daunte played ell w/ 3 TDs and 0 INTs BUT he didn't lead Minny to a score until it was 17-0 SL.
-at Indy: L 31-10 Only led Minny to 10 pts against Indy D. this was a combo of bad D bad O.

In 2000 the D played very well in 2 and poor in 3 while the O played poorly in 3 and well in 2 so it was equal and they went 2-3 against playoff teams. In the playoffs they both played well against NO and both were embarrassing against the Giants.

2001(just a note, Minny was Carolina's ONLY win that year and Daunte led them to 13 pts against the 1-15 panthers):

-at Chi: L 17-10. D held Chi to 17 but daunt could only manage 10 pts.
-TB: W 20-16. Daunte didn't have great game(1 TD, 2 INT) BUT more importantly he leads Minny on GW drive late but D also plays well holding TB to 16.
-GB: W 35-13. O and D play well in rout of GB. D adds TD on INT return.
-at TB: L 41-14. Both O and D stink, Minny was down 31-0 at 1 point.
-at Philly: L 48-17. Philly jumps out to 31-3 lead, both O and D stink. daunte gets a few garbage time TDs.
-vs. Chi: L 13-6. D plays well O stinks. Daunte has 59 rating, throws 46 passes w/ 0 TDs.
-vs. Pitt: L 21-16. D plays well keeping Minny in game but Minny cannot get any O going until Daunte is yanked for Todd Boumann and Minny gets back to 21-16 but can't pull it off.
-at GB: L 24-13. Daunte did not play.
-at Bal: L19-3- DNP.

In '01 they go 2-5 against playof teams w/ daunte. D played well 4 games, daunte's O played well 2 games.

'02:

-at NYJ: L 20-7. daunte leads Vikes to just 7 points, had a big INT early and also threw one in the EZ. had 0 TDs and 3 INts on the day, D kept Minny in the game.
-at TB: L 38-24. Both D and O stunk, yes daunte led them to 24 pts but TB was up 24-7 and it was never a game plus daunte threw 2 INTs and 0 TDs.
-NYG: L 27-20. D kept Minny in game, daunte was yanked and Minny made late rally but fell short.
-GB: W 31-21. Throws 2 INts but leads Minny to win after game was tied 21-21 in 4th. D did good job to hold on. Both played well.
-ATL: L 30-24(OT). Daunte has 1 TD and 3 INTs which put D in bad spots.
-at GB: L 26-22. Daunte not great but Minny was up 19-6 in 3rd, this is on D.

1-5 against playoff teams. D played well in 4 games, daunte's O played well in 2 games.


2003:

-at GB: W 30-25. Culpepepr played well, D allowed some garbage time TDs. Both played well.
-Den: W 28-20. Culpepper played well but key play in game was Moss lateral on last play of 1st half. Both Daunte and D played well. D scored on INT return.
-GB: L 30-27. Culpepper played well, this was on D.
-at SL: L 48-17. Daunte wasn't bad but D kept allowing points, i'll put this on the D.
-vs. Sea: W 34-7. Both played well, Daunte had 3 TDs and D scored a TD.
-vs. KC: W 45-20. Both played well.

4-2 record against playoff teams. D plays well in 4, daunte's O played well in all 6. this was Daunte's best year against good teams.


2004:

-at Philly: L 27-16: both bad.
-at Indy: L 31-28. Daunte had 1 TD but led Minny to 28 pts w/o Moss against bad Indy D. This loss is on the D although Minny did score on a PR so daunte only led them to 20 pts(also got 2 pt conv).
-at GB: L 34-32. daunte played well, D did not. 4 TDs 0 INTs.
-Sea: L 27-23. This is on both, Seattle was not playing well coming into this game and Minny blew it.
- GB: L 34-31. On D, Daunte threw 3 TDs and 0 INts giving him 7 against GB in 2 games.

Minny was 0-5 against playoff teams. The D played well in 0 games, Daunte played well in 3 games. In the playoffs daunte again beat up the bad GB D and again struggled against Philly.

2005:

-TB: L 24-23. Daunte was awful w/ 3 INs, D was good enough.
-at Cincy: L 37-8. The D was bad but Daunte threw 5 INTs against a bad Cincy D.
-at Chi: L 28-3. 2 mroe INTs w/ 0 TDs for Daunte. D wasn't horrible, kept them in it for a while bit O could not score.


0-3 and 3 bad games for Daunte and 2 good games for D.


The totals:

record against playoff teams: 9-23
D playd well in 16 games, daunte's O played well in 15(the # is skewed b/c he really had 1 good year against playoff teams and that was '03 yet against a 4-12 team he couldn't get it done to get them in the playoffs.

Blah. blah, blah....... Could you be any more biased in your determination of what constitutes a bad game for the defense? 28 points given up to Chicago is a good performance? WIth Kyle Orton at QB??? WTF?

You keep avoiding the simple question:

How many teams have put up more points on average than the Culpepper-led Vikings? I'm sure the number is less than 10, probably closer to 5.

Seriously, you can look at these numbers and blame the offense??????

2000 - 397 points scored, 371 points allowed
2001 - 290 points scored, 390 points allowed (Culpepper only played 11 games)
2002 - 390 points scored, 442 points allowed
2003 - 416 points scored, 353 points allowed
2004 - 405 points scored, 395 points allowed

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Games against Playoff teams:

IMO, it comes down to this:

Culpepper was plenty good enough in 2003 and 2004. 2005 was an aberration. If he plays anywhere near his level of 2003 & 2004, the Fins are way better and he is a top 5 QB. Only two QBs have thrown more than 39 TDs in a season.

 

[kizzaboo]

I thought this was quite interesting and also got me thinking about the RB factor and how it has dramatically helped Daunte. Not to mention the poor defense below average line and less that productive RBs (could be because of the lack of talent or line.. from all the games i seen it was the line but the RBs were never spectacular), and terrible coaching.

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=131974

 

[The New Guy]

Even though my QB's dont compare to Pennington, Brady, and Daunte....

The New Guy just got :0wned:

I never said that Culpepper has a great winning record. I just said he is the 2nd best QB in the division. If you agree with NYjunc's argument, then you both think that Jay Fiedler should be the 2nd best QB in the division since he wins games. QB's are not the only factor it takes to win games. If it was Dan would have a ring. Football is a team sport. You can have Pennington, Fiedler, or any other average QB, I will stick with a three time Pro Bowl QB. Now that he is on a good team, I see more Pro Bowls in the future. Just ask any unbiased NFL fan who the 2nd best QB in the AFC EAST is, and see what they say. Chris Carter just said the Vikings made a huge mistake trading Culpepper, but I guess he secretly agrees with NYjunc.

 

[nyjunc]

Blah. blah, blah....... Could you be any more biased in your determination of what constitutes a bad game for the defense? 28 points given up to Chicago is a good performance? WIth Kyle Orton at QB??? WTF?

read more carefully, I didn't mark that down as a good game for the D.

How many teams have put up more points on average than the Culpepper-led Vikings? I'm sure the number is less than 10, probably closer to 5.

It DOESN'T matter!!!!! The bottom line is winning and how many points he puts up in games they need. I went game by game vs. playoff teams and he has not done great in thoe games and in other big games against bad teams he has come up small. THAT'S what matters, not meaningless stats against the 2-14 Lions.

Culpepper was plenty good enough in 2003 and 2004. 2005 was an aberration.

Why is '05 an aberration and not '03 & '04? 3 of his last 5 years have been medicore to bad.

If he plays anywhere near his level of 2003 & 2004, the Fins are way better and he is a top 5 QB.

if he plays like that and you WIn you'll be better off, just adding #s does not translate to wins.

I will stick with a three time Pro Bowl QB.

you can have all the Pro Bowls you want, I want my QB to lead my team to wins. PB's are meaningless. Tom Brdy didn't make the PB in '03 yet he won the SB- which would you rather have?