Will Grier Vs. Drew Locke

[BobDole]

Lock is having a good game for sure. Prospects do improve sometimes, has he?

Meh. They have receivers running wide open. Gators have a few very unfortunate injuries in the secondary and he's getting it out in a hurry to negate the pass rush. Backs galloping untouched into open field has also helped. This game can gargle my butthole.

 

[Geordie]

Lock is having a good game for sure. Prospects do improve sometimes, has he?

He looks the part, I trust Slimm's analysis, but I've never really seen much of him till today and my god the kid has been outstanding, he'll go first round, there's arm talent there, scored more TDs in the SEC than Peyton Manning ! On this performance I already think he's better than any QB we currently have on our roster.

 

[Geordie]

Meh. They have receivers running wide open. Gators have a few very unfortunate injuries in the secondary and he's getting it out in a hurry to negate the pass rush. Backs galloping untouched into open field has also helped. This game can gargle my butthole.

He's playing very well dude, can't blame it all on blown coverages and injuries, Gators have been horrible on D, but the credit where it's due Lock has engineered what looks like a very embarrassing loss.

 

[BobDole]

He's playing very well dude, can't blame it all on blown coverages and injuries, Gators have been horrible on D, but the credit where it's due Lock has engineered what looks like a very embarrassing loss.

I don't know. It's hard to imagine the gators making it easier. He's hitting his targets, I'll give him that. Also doesn't hurt that he looks like Unitas compared to that other jabroni.

I know he throws a ton of TDs but I've just never been wowed by him and this game certainly isn't going to win me over.

 

[nick1]

As far as prospects for Miami I am liking Shea Patterson. Who is getting better every week. He's getting more confident in that offense and playing well. If you want a QB who is natural at improvising because of pressure I think Patterson is a good find

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I don't know. It's hard to imagine the gators making it easier. He's hitting his targets, I'll give him that. Also doesn't hurt that he looks like Unitas compared to that other jabroni.

I know he throws a ton of TDs but I've just never been wowed by him and this game certainly isn't going to win me over.

Yeah the scored more TD's than Peyton Manning thing doesn't really tell the whole story. Drew Lock is 8-21 against SEC competition for his career. Had never won against a ranked SEC team until last Saturday against Florida. He finally ran into a quarterback that's significantly worse than he is - which is why Mullen finally benched Franks.

Lock has tallied 41 TD's with 29 INT's against SEC competition. Most of those TD's coming during a stretch last year and his sophomore year during a period where the SEC East was one of the poorest divisions in all of Power 5 football. When Peyton was at Tennessee, the SEC East was one of the premier divisions in college football.

Lock regressed from his Junior year to his Senior year, much like Tannehill at Texas A&M. They're so similar in terms of their strengths and weaknesses, and nearly identical in terms of how they play, handle pressure, and the flaws they must overcome. Their personality traits are even similar. Neither plays with that urgency that you need in an elite quarterback. It's the urgency and natural feel for the game that's missing when you evaluate both....because they're unsure.

 

[ckparrothead]

I think Tannehill is better than Drew Lock. I can see the similarities but Tannehill has more skill. Tannehill can go out on an NFL football field and put together half-season stretches of very good football. I don't know if Drew Lock is ever going to do that.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I think Tannehill is better than Drew Lock. I can see the similarities but Tannehill has more skill. Tannehill can go out on an NFL football field and put together half-season stretches of very good football. I don't know if Drew Lock is ever going to do that.

Yep. I wouldn't want either one 'em. It's the flaws they share that you can't overcome.

The problem with overdrafting a quarterback that's mediocre is that it forces you to make a financial commitment to that mediocrity, or cut bait and start over. Which is why I won't draft a quarterback with these flaws in the first round. I don't want to be in that position.

 

[ckparrothead]

One big difference between Drew Lock and Will Grier is that Lock consistently shows NFL arm strength and velocity, and Will Grier doesn't.

Will Grier's arm is versatile. He throws well off different platforms, throws those cute jump balls that get people all excited, etc. His consistency is BAD, prone to throwing out a flapping duck when there was really no excuse for it. He can throw a deep ball at about 45-48 yards with real NFL velocity when he gets hold of the ball. But can he drive the football? That's a big, fat NO.

He and Daniel Jones share the consistency problems, the tendency to throw wobblers and head scratchers. One difference is I think Grier's clearly got the versatility advantage on Daniel Jones in terms of throwing off base and off platform. But that's a double-edged sword because Grier knows he's better at it, so he makes less effort to get himself right for the throw.

I've seen Daniel Jones get his gather just right, his mechanics just right, all the tumblers falling into place just so, to where he drove the football at true NFL velocity.

I've seen Will Grier do the same. But you wonder...if you have to sift through a hundred throws to finally find one, does it matter?

I don't like Gardner Minshew's arm strength but I think functionally it's about as good as Will Grier's, until/unless Grier can sort out his consistency issues. Minshew is a better quarterback, too. They both have that fly by the seat of their pants quality to them, but Minshew is smarter and sees things more clearly. He consistently throws with better spin and accuracy.

Hell, if Gardner Minshew had an arm, he'd be Baker Mayfield. But if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

 

[ckparrothead]

Yep. I wouldn't want either one 'em. It's the flaws they share that you can't overcome.

The problem with overdrafting a quarterback that's mediocre is that it forces you to make a financial commitment to that mediocrity, or cut bait and start over. Which is why I won't draft a quarterback with these flaws in the first round. I don't want to be in that position.

Personally I lean toward doing it over and over until you get it right. I know that's not the ideal result everyone is looking for. They want the stars to align to where you get a crack at Patrick Mahomes, you trade up, and you grab him, and he turns out to be the next Aaron Rodgers. I just think you do what you can with what you have, when you can, and then you keep doing it until you've got the result you want.

The mistake often isn't taking the guy. It's using his presence as an excuse not to take the next guy.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Personally I lean toward doing it over and over until you get it right. I know that's not the ideal result everyone is looking for. They want the stars to align to where you get a crack at Patrick Mahomes, you trade up, and you grab him, and he turns out to be the next Aaron Rodgers. I just think you do what you can with what you have, when you can, and then you keep doing it until you've got the result you want.

The mistake often isn't taking the guy. It's using his presence as an excuse not to take the next guy.

Not me. I'm going to try to take a good player at another position. I can find mediocre quarterbacks in the subsequent rounds.

 

[Geordie]

Yeah the scored more TD's than Peyton Manning thing doesn't really tell the whole story. Drew Lock is 8-21 against SEC competition for his career. Had never won against a ranked SEC team until last Saturday against Florida. He finally ran into a quarterback that's significantly worse than he is - which is why Mullen finally benched Franks.

Lock has tallied 41 TD's with 29 INT's against SEC competition. Most of those TD's coming during a stretch last year and his sophomore year during a period where the SEC East was one of the poorest divisions in all of Power 5 football. When Peyton was at Tennessee, the SEC East was one of the premier divisions in college football.

Lock regressed from his Junior year to his Senior year, much like Tannehill at Texas A&M. They're so similar in terms of their strengths and weaknesses, and nearly identical in terms of how they play, handle pressure, and the flaws they must overcome. Their personality traits are even similar. Neither plays with that urgency that you need in an elite quarterback. It's the urgency and natural feel for the game that's missing when you evaluate both....because they're unsure.

I think you are underestimating the amount of hype that will surrounding the kid, after surpassing Manning's figures, the arm talent is clearly there and you know how that pushes these prospects up higher than they should be (Tannehill anyone ?). He's going first round, whether he deserves to is debatable. I watched the whole damn awful game on Saturday and trust me he was very, very good, had full command of that offense, yes Franks stunk the place up again but that had no bearing on Lock winning the game, he would have been just as impressive with a half decent QB on the other side. I'm done with Franks, been hoping that he would eventually realise that potential, but he's never getting there

Like I said previously I totally trust your judgement here over my own, so for that reason alone I don't want to see us drafting Lock. This was the first time I've seen him, I skipped the game last year since the Gators season was already effectively over, but he impressed me. His record against the elite in the SEC though suggests I caught him on a good day.

 

[Geordie]

Personally I lean toward doing it over and over until you get it right. I know that's not the ideal result everyone is looking for. They want the stars to align to where you get a crack at Patrick Mahomes, you trade up, and you grab him, and he turns out to be the next Aaron Rodgers. I just think you do what you can with what you have, when you can, and then you keep doing it until you've got the result you want.

The mistake often isn't taking the guy. It's using his presence as an excuse not to take the next guy.

I like this approach CK, we've got to go all in, and keep doing that every year until you land on one. I understand the value in other positions but until we fix the QB spot, what's the point in having a bunch of talent elsewhere, it'll only get us to where are now and perpetual .500 team.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I think you are underestimating the amount of hype that will surrounding the kid, after surpassing Manning's figures, the arm talent is clearly there and you know how that pushes these prospects up higher than they should be (Tannehill anyone ?). He's going first round, whether he deserves to is debatable. I watched the whole damn awful game on Saturday and trust me he was very, very good, had full command of that offense, yes Franks stunk the place up again but that had no bearing on Lock winning the game, he would have been just as impressive with a half decent QB on the other side. I'm done with Franks, been hoping that he would eventually realise that potential, but he's never getting there

Like I said previously I totally trust your judgement here over my own, so for that reason alone I don't want to see us drafting Lock. This was the first time I've seen him, I skipped the game last year since the Gators season was already effectively over, but he impressed me. His record against the elite in the SEC though suggests I caught him on a good day.

Well no I'm not underestimating the amount of hype that will surround him, I'm just saying all the hype that surrounds him for passing Peyton Manning in SEC touchdown passes is irrelevant. It's nothing more than a talking point. It has nothing to do with his evaluation as a pro prospect. I think you're overestimating the significance of it. Trust me, it's not going to fool good scouts. They're evaluating the traits he brings, not the stats. The stats stay in college in the record books, his traits are the only thing he'll bring with him to the NFL.

Aaron Murray and Danny Wuerffel both threw more TD passes in the SEC than Peyton Manning. Guess what - neither of 'em are Peyton Manning. Chad Henne threw more TD's at Michigan than Tom Brady. He's not Tom Brady. Tajh Boyd threw more TD's in the ACC than Phillip Rivers. The point is, a statistical footnote that stupid can be made hundreds of times for hundreds of players in order to show it's irrelevance in terms of usefulness as a scouting mechanism.

All I'm saying is that I've watched him play at minimum 40 games over the past 4 years. One good game against a ranked team isn't going to wipe out 4 years of tape on him in the eyes of scouts. Although it's good that the young man was finally able to add a signature win to his resume. That's what they want to see....signature wins. Up until last Saturday he didn't have any. None.

I've seen many a quarterback be selected in the first round that I didn't have a 1st round grade on. That will always happen. Just because you drafted him in the 1st round didn't suddenly change what he was as a quarterback. My question to any team that grades him as a 1st rounder would be - what traits are you drafting in the 1st round? If he had an average or below average arm, where would you draft him? What weaknesses do you believe you can fix with him through coaching?

The highest I could take him would be in the mid rounds because I don't particularly like his flaws for a 4 year starter, but that's just my opinion. If somebody else likes him more than that they're certainly welcome to it.

 

[Geordie]

In a weak QB class there are plenty of GMs that will elevate his talent beyond where it really is and over draft him. How did the likes of Christian Ponder, Geno Smith, Baline Gabbert, Josh Allen and one I know you didn't Like Sam Bradford go in the first round.

I'm not arguing that you are not right on his talent level ffs, I'm saying that he will not make it out of the first round based on the hype that players with his traits of big arm and big stats and the feeding frenzy they generate. If as looks likely Herbert and Haskins stay in school, Lock, Grier and Finley will be at the top of the QB list. I can see Lock coming out of the process as the one where the hype gets overblown and being the first QB off the board because of that, and it's a very rare occurrence these days that a QB isn't drafted in round 1.

I've seen one game from him, and he was very good, they made a big deal out of it in commentary that he had lost his favourite target for most of this year, but he was back against the Gators (of course ), maybe that made a difference however he was spraying the ball around, I think that guy only had one or two catches. I could probably, if I looked hard enough, find a game were Tannehill looked very good also so my sample size is nowhere near enough, that's why I bow to your better wisdom.