Without Tannehill, We'd be the Browns (In-depth research)

[J. David Wannyheimer]

Yup just as weird as Dalton having lots of good stretches but according to Dolphin fans both him and Marvin Lewis are terrible, and always have been.

Andy Dalton's a terrible example if we're talking about coaching and supporting cast. He's had the benefit of working with great backfields, a good offensive line, very talented receivers (including AJ Green, a top 3 guy), and on top of that he benefited from being coached by Jay Gruden (one of the best in the business) and Hue Jackson (historically a very good OC) before they brought in the much less accomplished Ken Zampese and Bill Lazor.

For most of his career, Dalton's been in a situation that would make almost any other NFL quarterback envious, and the results have consistently been underwhelming. There's a very simple explanation for it, too. Andy Dalton's got a rag arm and can't challenge defenses in tight windows or on the perimeter. In my opinion, his ceiling is low tier starter / great backup, and it's entirely because of physical limitations.

I don't dislike the guy one bit, as he seems like a good person off the field and Miami's had success against him for the most part. He's just not very good.

 

[Vaark]

You're right. 2 out of 219 QBs in 18 years. You'd have to pick a QB 100 years in a row to find one that makes you a perennial playoff team. Good luck with that.


We have never finished a season worse than 2017 with Ryan Tannehill at QB. The worst such season was in 2015 when we went 6-10. Also, in an earlier post you said in his rookie season we finished 6-10 which is not true either. It was 7-9.

Fact: 2013 &14, Matt Ryan with offensive weapons Tannehill would have killed for won 6 less games than did Tannehill... And if you factor in '15, it's down to 4 less games.

Of wait!!!! It's not #QBWinz - it's #TeamWinzOrLoses when it's another QB with more resources who's supposed to be better, right?

 

[hoops]

Op I see on your twitter cut ups that you reference tannehills top shelf ability to throw the seam. Charles Clay is basically h back size how do you feel mark Andrews would fit in that role given the route running the size the catch radius and the feet?

And if you see a better fit in the draft who is it?

 

[Fins1971]

You're using team success. Isolate players.

May as well cut Cam Wake, Ndamukong Suh and Reshad JOnes.... Cause this defense sucks. They obviously all suck.

Nice diversion, I never said anything about cutting anyone. I’m using team success and scoring to show that nothing has changed offensively over a decade of football with totally different coaches, QB’s and coordators. We are still below average despite drafting a QB early and giving him a long tenure to develop. I know that teams can help players and vice versa. The supporting team could be better but after 77 games expecting a dramatic change isn’t the norm. I hope it happens. Think your comparison to Browns is a bit off. We were 500 team before and we are still a 500 team with Ryan. So no we wouldn’t be the Browns IMO

 

[superphin]

Fact

2013 Falcons had 27th defense, 32nd rushing offense, Matt Ryans weapons were 32 year old Roddy White who was clearly past his prime and not better than Mike Wallace and would retire within 3 years, 37 year old Tony G last year in the league, primary target for 2013 Harry Douglas who has one 1k season and whose career high in TD's is 2 in 8 years of play and whose 2nd best season was 556 yds, Julio Jones played 5 games, 30th ranked OL

2013 Dolphins 8th defense, 26th rushing offense, Mike Wallace at this point better than Roddy White, Charles Clay 100 less yards on 14 less catches and 2 less TD’s, Brian Hartline no different than Harry Douglas I would actually say slightly better, 21st ranked OL.

Sigh

 

[Vaark]

Fact:
Atlanta 2014
Julio 580
Douglas 1067
Gonzales 859
White 711

Atlanta 2015
Jackson, Rogers, Freeman tandem: 1175
Julio1593
White 921
Douglas 556

LOLOL again imagine how Tannehill would have balled with those weapons.

 

[Vaark]

PS: Melty Ice, who rarely met a "win or go home game" where he didn't disappear when needed most should be paying part of his $101? mil to Julio, Roddy and Douglas. OTOH, Tannehill got Hartline paid(imagine what he could have done for Douglas!) and got Clay the Buffalo deal as he never replicated his 2 seasons of catching balls from Tannehill.

But it kind of sucks I know when reality and facts get in the way of a passionate subjective narrative, eh?

 

[superphin]

Fact:
Atlanta 2014
Julio 580
Douglas 1067
Gonzales 859
White 711

Atlanta 2015
Jackson, Rogers, Freeman tandem: 1175
Julio1593
White 921
Douglas 556

LOLOL again imagine how Tannehill would have balled with those weapons.

Wasn't saying anything about 2014 and 2015 Julio was healthy...surely a healthy Julio Jones is worth at least 2 dolphin WR's. If your implying Harry Douglas is a lot better than Brian Hartline...they are the exact same player. Players who when targeted enough barely caught 1k yards, at least Hartline has a career high of 4 tds compared to Douglas 2. They have almost the exact same career numbers and thats with Douglas playing 2 more years. They are the same player, to imply that Douglas added any more to the falcon offense than Hartline did to the dolphin offense is just being stubborn. BTW may wanna check those numbers again Gonzalez didn't even play a game in 2014. White had 506 yards in 2015 and the rest is just wrong.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Wasn't saying anything about 2014 and 2015 Julio was healthy...surely a healthy Julio Jones is worth at least 2 dolphin WR's. If your implying Harry Douglas is a lot better than Brian Hartline...they are the exact same player. Players who when targeted enough barely caught 1k yards, at least Hartline has a career high of 4 tds compared to Douglas 2. They have almost the exact same career numbers and thats with Douglas playing 2 more years. They are the same player, to imply that Douglas added any more to the falcon offense than Hartline did to the dolphin offense is just being stubborn. BTW may wanna check those numbers again Gonzalez didn't even play a game in 2014. White had 506 yards in 2015 and the rest is just wrong.

The difference is that Douglas was the #3 or #4 receiver on the team (behind Jones, White, and Gonzalez). Hartline was the #1 or #2 receiver on the team. So, you are saying that the Falcons #4 receiver was the same as the Dolphins #1 receiver.

 

[superphin]

The difference is that Douglas was the #3 or #4 receiver on the team (behind Jones, White, and Gonzalez). Hartline was the #1 or #2 receiver on the team. So, you are saying that the Falcons #4 receiver was the same as the Dolphins #1 receiver.

In 2013 Harry Douglas had 132 targets and Brian Hartline had 133. That year he was not a #3 or #4 wr. That year the Falcons offense did not have weapons Tannehill would kill for.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

In 2013 Harry Douglas had 132 targets and Brian Hartline had 133. That year he was not a #3 or #4 wr. That year the Falcons offense did not have weapons Tannehill would kill for.

And 2012, 2014, 2015, 2016? Why focus on the one year that Julio Jones was hurt? Why try to pretend that Tannehill and Ryan have had anywhere near similar supporting casts? I really don't get the point.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

And 2012, 2014, 2015, 2016? Why focus on the one year that Julio Jones was hurt? Why try to pretend that Tannehill and Ryan have had anywhere near similar supporting casts? I really don't get the point.

The hilarious part is that in 2013 Atlanta went 4-12. Why argue that the supporting casts were similar that one season? Seems to shoot the #QBwinz argument down.

 

[Vaark]

The hilarious part is that in 2013 Atlanta went 4-12. Why argue that the supporting casts were similar that one season? Seems to shoot the #QBwinz argument down.

another example of "QBwinz" when it comes to Tannehill but not other QBs where extenuating circumstances are influential, impactful, understandable and forgivable:
2014-16: Brees: 21-27 .438
2014-16: Tannehill: 22-23 .490

 

[Vaark]

another example of "QBwinz " only if it's Tannehill

4seasons
2014-17: Cousins: 28-35-1 .438
2013-16: Tannehill: 32-31 . 508

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

Op I see on your twitter cut ups that you reference tannehills top shelf ability to throw the seam. Charles Clay is basically h back size how do you feel mark Andrews would fit in that role given the route running the size the catch radius and the feet?

And if you see a better fit in the draft who is it?

Mark Andrews would be a homerun. The more versatile of a player you can squeeze in-line, the better this offense will function. With Tannehill, it could make the zone-read a threat to stretch the defense off either C gap.

WIth Andrews at the strong side (obviously) you create another lane to that side. Then the weakside is held by the threat of Tannehill running.

I'd be totally okay with taking Andrews in the first.