Without Tannehill, We'd be the Browns (In-depth research) | Page 9 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Without Tannehill, We'd be the Browns (In-depth research)

Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers makes the Phins a perennial playoff team.
It’s a QB driven league

Until fans here and the FO realize that, it's 7-9 every year. The reply is always "it's hard to find one." My answer, keep digging
You're right. 2 out of 219 QBs in 18 years. You'd have to pick a QB 100 years in a row to find one that makes you a perennial playoff team. Good luck with that.

heck with chad henne at qb in 09 we finished 7-9, and in 2010 and 2011 we went 6-10. with tannehill we have had 1 season worse than that, and 1 season the same, followed by 2 8-8 seasons, and an incomplete for 2016, because we could have finished 8-8 or 11-5, will never know.
We have never finished a season worse than 2017 with Ryan Tannehill at QB. The worst such season was in 2015 when we went 6-10. Also, in an earlier post you said in his rookie season we finished 6-10 which is not true either. It was 7-9.
 
You're right. 2 out of 219 QBs in 18 years. You'd have to pick a QB 100 years in a row to find one that makes you a perennial playoff team. Good luck with that.


We have never finished a season worse than 2017 with Ryan Tannehill at QB. The worst such season was in 2015 when we went 6-10. Also, in an earlier post you said in his rookie season we finished 6-10 which is not true either. It was 7-9.
u r right in terms of record, thank u for correcting me. In terms of the ppg though, which is what the op argument was about, basically pointing how pathetic our offense was with cutler this year( and hes right about that) but as i pointed out, in 4 of the 5 seasons with tannehill we finished in the bottom half of the league in scoring, and 3 of the 5 seasons we finished 27th in scoring in 2012, 26th in 2013, and 27th in 2015 with tannehill all toward the very bottom.

basically putting tannehill in there does not turn the dolphins from laughing stock offensively to a high powered offense.

even last year, in the year many ppl on here like to act as if tannehill played at this extremely high level, with him we were ranked 19th in the league in ppg, which is still below average.
 
Considering we were last in offensive plays 19th in ppg is pretty good and if I remember rightly we were right up there in redzone efficiency as well. Points per play if available would definitely be a more relevant statistic.

Either way the Tannehill we'd seen last season was leaps and bounds better than in any of his previous years. Kdawg said it all better than I ever could in the other thread but his improved footwork, pocket presence, playmaking, and willingness to create plays with his feet was a joy to watch.

That pass rolling to his left to Gray in the Pittsburgh game is about as difficult a throw a quarterback can make. Barring any injury setback there's plenty to be optimistic about going forward given the trash QB play this year. How we started the year 4-2 with the offense providing zilch is incredible.
 
Considering we were last in offensive plays 19th in ppg is pretty good and if I remember rightly we were right up there in redzone efficiency as well. Points per play if available would definitely be a more relevant statistic.

Either way the Tannehill we'd seen last season was leaps and bounds better than in any of his previous years. Kdawg said it all better than I ever could in the other thread but his improved footwork, pocket presence, playmaking, and willingness to create plays with his feet was a joy to watch.

That pass rolling to his left to Gray in the Pittsburgh game is about as difficult a throw a quarterback can make. Barring any injury setback there's plenty to be optimistic about going forward given the trash QB play this year. How we started the year 4-2 with the offense providing zilch is incredible.

We were 15th in 3rd down conversion, and 15th in RZ offense. We were also 25th with only 30% of our drives ending in scores, 31st in overall 1st downs, and 28th 1st downs by passing. Man how did we win 10 games?
 
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The more I dive into this Tannehill project (and really, it's becoming a general offense project), the more I notice things that work and things that don't. Consider it self-scouting. I imagine this is what Gase did when he first got here. Let's watch every throw the QB made, and let's call more plays from the ones he was successful with.

It's so god damn clear that this guy is not just good, but an EXCELLENT, perhaps the very best in football, throwing from play action.

In addition, he really utilized Charles Clay and Dion Sims up the seam extremely well. This was a big part of our red zone attack, as well as picking up chunk plays between the 20's. He throws an exceptional ball between that S/LB bracket up the hash (or up the #s when its a WR split). He can put the ball right up top of the LBs head and give his guy a chance to make a play. He throws Clay open every other week on these routes it seems like.


Those tiered reads where the field is cut in half with a flat option, intermediate option and deep option is so damn efficient. This type of play:



This is a basic example, but it's redundant. Our success rate is so high. And even when you want to keep him in the pocket, the play-action game that displaces the LBs even slightly has such a profound impact. It puts his feet in a good position. I don't know, but he seems to play in better rhythm from PA. The footwork, the top of the drop to the climb, everything looks cleaner.

I'm glad we have Adam Gase. I trust him to make these types of observations. Philbin never did. But Gase does, and we saw that in 2016.
 
u go ahead and do that. its what most tannehill apologists do, its everyone but him.

u were the one who stated how awful our offense was with cutler this year ( and u were right) and that is what we get without tannehill out there.

what the numbers show, is that in 4 of the 5 seasons with tannehill starting, we finished in the bottom half of ppg amongst the 32 nfl teams, and in 3 of those 5 seasons, we basically finished in ppg where we finished without him this year.

Also, tannehill is nowhere near wilsons level. only on this site can people come up with a reason as to how they are pretty much at the same level.

It's not about being an apologist, it's about having the brain capacity to figure out WHY things are the way they are. Any mouth-breathing moron can tell you what the results are. I want to know WHY the results are what they are.

So you can sit there spouting off irrelevant facts like win-loss total, I'll continue the self-scouting process.
 
The more I dive into this Tannehill project (and really, it's becoming a general offense project), the more I notice things that work and things that don't. Consider it self-scouting. I imagine this is what Gase did when he first got here. Let's watch every throw the QB made, and let's call more plays from the ones he was successful with.

It's so god damn clear that this guy is not just good, but an EXCELLENT, perhaps the very best in football, throwing from play action.

In addition, he really utilized Charles Clay and Dion Sims up the seam extremely well. This was a big part of our red zone attack, as well as picking up chunk plays between the 20's. He throws an exceptional ball between that S/LB bracket up the hash (or up the #s when its a WR split). He can put the ball right up top of the LBs head and give his guy a chance to make a play. He throws Clay open every other week on these routes it seems like.


Those tiered reads where the field is cut in half with a flat option, intermediate option and deep option is so damn efficient. This type of play:



This is a basic example, but it's redundant. Our success rate is so high. And even when you want to keep him in the pocket, the play-action game that displaces the LBs even slightly has such a profound impact. It puts his feet in a good position. I don't know, but he seems to play in better rhythm from PA. The footwork, the top of the drop to the climb, everything looks cleaner.

I'm glad we have Adam Gase. I trust him to make these types of observations. Philbin never did. But Gase does, and we saw that in 2016.


First off I'm a Tannehill supporter and don't want to waste a high pick on a QB. The more I hear about this class the more I realize nobody is beating out a healthy Tannehill and a successful healthy Tannehill could play so long that by the time he's ready to be replaced the guys we waste the 11th pick on would be 30 years old. But enough on that. In this play there's a deeper guy who's wide open, why not go there. Is this just his progression and would a better QB ignore it and see the deeper guy?
 
It's not about being an apologist, it's about having the brain capacity to figure out WHY things are the way they are. Any mouth-breathing moron can tell you what the results are. I want to know WHY the results are what they are.

So you can sit there spouting off irrelevant facts like win-loss total, I'll continue the self-scouting process.
the results are what they are, because miami lacks a top guy at the most important position in the sport, and arguably the most important position in all of sports. i dont need any tape to know that, i watch , i don't need stats either, the only thing the ppg showed me is that i am not crazy, and that our offense has been **** with tannehill for most of his career.

you and all the other apologists can continue to make excuses for this guy, and luckily for you, you will get tannehill this season, but as someone who wants to enjoy dolphins football again after 20 plus years of ineptitude, i want a true qb, not one who needs top talent at every position to be competent.
 
First off I'm a Tannehill supporter and don't want to waste a high pick on a QB. The more I hear about this class the more I realize nobody is beating out a healthy Tannehill and a successful healthy Tannehill could play so long that by the time he's ready to be replaced the guys we waste the 11th pick on would be 30 years old. But enough on that. In this play there's a deeper guy who's wide open, why not go there. Is this just his progression and would a better QB ignore it and see the deeper guy?

He could've taken that option, but it was 3rd and 2, and that throw is a LOT lower percentage. He'd have to whip his hips open to generate the velocity needed so that it doesn't hang up there, and allow the boundary corner to peel off, or the underneath safety to peel back.

You're right, he is open, but I think the first read is Landry for the first down, and we got it. You'll take that every day.
 
the results are what they are, because miami lacks a top guy at the most important position in the sport, and arguably the most important position in all of sports. i dont need any tape to know that, i watch , i don't need stats either, the only thing the ppg showed me is that i am not crazy, and that our offense has been **** with tannehill for most of his career.

you and all the other apologists can continue to make excuses for this guy, and luckily for you, you will get tannehill this season, but as someone who wants to enjoy dolphins football again after 20 plus years of ineptitude, i want a true qb, not one who needs top talent at every position to be competent.


L! O! L!

Hey, if you insist on living in fantasy land, that's your prerogative.
 
First off I'm a Tannehill supporter and don't want to waste a high pick on a QB. The more I hear about this class the more I realize nobody is beating out a healthy Tannehill and a successful healthy Tannehill could play so long that by the time he's ready to be replaced the guys we waste the 11th pick on would be 30 years old. But enough on that. In this play there's a deeper guy who's wide open, why not go there. Is this just his progression and would a better QB ignore it and see the deeper guy?


As he said it’s a half field tiered read sticks concept. Look to the sticks look to the deep route last that’s why it breaks last.

If the sticks are there you take it. If he didn’t like juice he had the intermediate crosser and the late breaking deeper route

That action across the formation is designed to get juice released to the flat sticks

That kind of stuff Landry is excellent at and you are gonna miss like hell without him.
 
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L! O! L!

Hey, if you insist on living in fantasy land, that's your prerogative.
im not the one living in fantasy land. our offensive output, with the exception of 1 year ( under the absolutely awful worst coach in nfl history joe philbin) has been below average.

this is a results business, as long as our offense continues to not put pts on scoreboard on a consistent basis, this team wont go anywhere.

what makes u feel good though.
 
This is a pretty interesting stat. Tannehill has started 77 games for the Dolphins. His starting record is 37-40. He has led his team to 1604 points in those 77 games. 20.8 points per game.

If you take the most recent 77 regular season starts not started by Ryan (08-11,16,17) and make a comparison here is what you find.

P10, Henne, Moore, Cutler combined for the following

Starting record 37-40. Identical. Those teams scored 1550 points (20.1 points per game) Pretty close to identical.

So the first round QB really hasn't changed a thing for this franchise. Same offensive output, Same record. I expected more. I haven't given up but it is time for Tannehill to start making a difference for this team. 77 games of stats show that he hasn't.
 
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