Young and Fromm

[Dolphins81]

If they trade up, I’m done. We have way too many needs on this team.

 

[Blake the great]

So you're skeptical of Fromm and Herbert but you're sold on Jordan Love? very strange to say the least.

I don't get the Jordan Love affair either. He seems like a day 2 or 3 developmental project. Good arm and size but inconsistent like Drew Lock last year. I don't want to draft Jay Cutler 2.0 unless he's a back up QB.

 

[Blake the great]

I just think his team was that overmatched. I’ve seen worse games against worse competition by guys like Mahomes.

Swap QB’s and I think Burrow looks just as bad. Love has the tools that project well to the next level. He made some throws in the game against LSU that were elite.

Love does not look comfortable in the pocket and his feet and stance are a mess when he throws. He relies too much on his arm and it creates accuracy issues. Yes he has tools to work with but that not nearly enough to make him a top prospect, gotta be able to put it all together. Especially when other QBs could be available like Tua, Herbert, and Fromm.

Can you show me the "elite throws" He made against LSU? Cause I saw maybe one or two.

Love seems like a Drew Lock/Jay Cutler type prospect/player. I think you guys are over valuing him and under valuing Fromm and Burrow.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Love does not look comfortable in the pocket and his feet and stance are a mess when he throws. He relies too much on his arm and it creates accuracy issues. Yes he has tools to work with but that not nearly enough to make him a top prospect, gotta be able to put it all together. Especially when other QBs could be available like Tua, Herbert, and Fromm.

Can you show me the "elite throws" He made against LSU? Cause I saw maybe one or two.

Love seems like a Drew Lock/Jay Cutler type prospect/player. I think you guys are over valuing him and under valuing Fromm and Burrow.

Jordan Love is a better prospect than Drew Lock. Don’t try the Drew Lock spill with me, I warned everybody about Drew Lock daily here.

If I consider Joe Burrow a 2nd/3rd round quarterback, it’s not undervaluing him. It’s dead on.

I have an underclassman QB thread stickied at the top of this forum that contains a fluid list pertaining to how I rank my draft eligible underclassman quarterbacks. I’m not undervaluing Jake Fromm. I’ve talked for 2 years here about Fromm.

Either you’re another one of the endless trolls around here or you can’t read.

You’ve had about 8 years to school me on quarterbacks here. If it ain’t happened yet it ain’t gonna happen.

 

[Blake the great]

Jordan Love is a better prospect than Drew Lock. Don’t try the Drew Lock spill with me, I warned everybody about Drew Lock daily here.

If I consider Joe Burrow a 2nd/3rd round quarterback, it’s not undervaluing him. It’s dead on.

I have an underclassman QB thread stickied at the top of this forum that contains a fluid list pertaining to how I rank my draft eligible underclassman quarterbacks. I’m not undervaluing Jake Fromm. I’ve talked for 2 years here about Fromm.

Either you’re another one of the endless trolls around here or you can’t read.

You’ve had about 8 years to school me on quarterbacks here. If it ain’t happened yet it ain’t gonna happen.

No need to get all defensive. Guess you have undervalued Fromm the last two years then.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

No need to get all defensive. Guess you have undervalued Fromm the last two years then.

Make a football point or shut the hell up. You don’t have a clue what Jake Fromm is going to be.

Guess Fromm undervalued Bama’s backup quarterback the last 2 years.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

On second thought don’t worry about it. I won’t see it.

 

[Lovethefish]

I posed a question in either this thread or another, what to do if we are sitting at #2.
It becomes more interesting in relationship to the QB2 discussion.
The business of tanking leaves NO room for error.
CK - who I follow on Twitter - referred to possible league investigation - I believe those concerns are alleviated by the ineptitudes of Cincinnati & Washington. This leads me to push the tank to next level - IMO I am SITTING X MAN this week. TIght hammy.
This will be the MOST IMPORTANT game MIAMI will have played in the last 20 years and it’s a MUST LOSE. Allow me to show you possible options at #2:

1. Stand pat- take your best QB. With Tua likely gone - will be Fromm for me. IMO the safest and most reasonable course.

2. Attempt to trade up.
Hopeful it’s WASH & they believe in Haskins. Likely cost Pick 2 & Steelers Pick Rd1 & 2021 Rd1 or Rd2.

3. Trade down.
Only viable if your grades on Eason-Love-Fromm are close. Playing a dangerous game.

Look at the COSTS of winning one “meaningless” game.

 

[Blake the great]

Make a football point or shut the hell up. You don’t have a clue what Jake Fromm is going to be.

Guess Fromm undervalued Bama’s backup quarterback the last 2 years.

I gave you my jordan love complete breakdown film analysis, calm your titz.

 

[ckparrothead]

Love does not look comfortable in the pocket and his feet and stance are a mess when he throws. He relies too much on his arm and it creates accuracy issues. Yes he has tools to work with but that not nearly enough to make him a top prospect, gotta be able to put it all together. Especially when other QBs could be available like Tua, Herbert, and Fromm.

Can you show me the "elite throws" He made against LSU? Cause I saw maybe one or two.

You could have inserted Patrick Mahomes's name in place of Jordan Love for basically this entire post and it would've looked like someone dug it up from 2017.

 

[ckparrothead]

Changed my mind on the Fromm comparison. More like Jimmy Garoppolo.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

This quarterback stuff was easier for me decades ago. Early '90s I could look at an Andre Ware or David Klingler and say no chance. NFL defenses were allowed to nullify these guys at the point. I was on Las Vegas radio doing the pre draft stuff for the Stardust Line on KDWN during those years and really had an unfair advantage by just saying no to this guy and no to that guy. They were picked high first round but really the likelihood was far below that. My gosh there were first round stiffs in that era...Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich, Tommy Maddux. I knew I was basically cheating but as long as the audience didn't understand that everything was okay. I got more praise and comps than warranted.

Considerably more complicated now. Like Daniel Jones, is the NFL going to reduce him or not? First week his strengths were enabled to the forefront but once coordinators paid more attention now the lack of arm strength and familiar problems from Duke have surfaced. One awful duck after another, kind of like Marinovich. Tonight will be interesting but not definitive. Smart guys but slightly lacking in arm strength and ideal physical tools are the ones I struggle with, like Matt Ryan going in one direction but Matt Leinart the other.

Fromm is unquestionably above a Daniel Jones in terms of arm and raw passing ability. I really wish he had arrived at Georgia a few years earlier. There would be far more games amidst normalcy and not the huge situational edge based on Georgia's power running game under Kirby Smart. Everybody wants to doubt Tua along those lines but over 2018 and 2019 when both have been full time starters there is no question that Georgia's offensive line is more powerful and simply enables comfortable situations for Fromm. It wouldn't be a big deal if he had 10 inch hands and escapability like Russell Wilson. When he's somewhat limited already and not the greatest physical specimen, I really wonder what that ceiling is.

I listened to a partial podcast last night in which it was emphasized that Fromm makes plays. He wouldn't be on these lists or within these discussions if he didn't make plays. Those plays severely reduced in number once Alabama started applying the clamps in both 2017 and 2018. I had no confidence whatsoever that Georgia could score a touchdown, once the intensity level shifted. Contrast to DeShaun Watson in those two title games. Alabama couldn't do a thing with DeShaun Watson when the outcome was on the line. Clemson scored a combined 37 points in the 4th quarter of those two championship games under Watson.

In Jake Fromm's two games against Alabama, with either a national title or a playoff berth on the line, Georgia has a combined 0 points in the 4th quarter.

In fairness, Georgia did manage a situationally blessed field goal in overtime of the championship game against Alabama, courtesy of debuting at the Alabama 25 yard line. It turned into a 51 yard field goal after a drive that went backwards.

Tua didn't go backwards, as I recall.

I realize that is two games. The same type of thing occurred against Texas in the bowl game last year. Texas wanted to be there and Georgia did not. There was glaring potential for that beforehand. A quarterback needs to understand the situational deficit and seize the day. Instead Jake Fromm seemed totally unprepared. Without a running game to dictate matters he looked very ordinary. Same thing occurred in 2017 at Auburn. I'm sure Slimm remembers that game. In the NFL as I've long emphasized these games are not created equal. The schedule maker is going to present you with many games per season in which the opponent is more energized. Fromm is going to have to deal with those realities, and without a 6 yards per carry running game to soothe matters.

I'm not saying no to him. Today's NFL rules and defenses don't say no to a quarterback on that level. I wouldn't be excited. It would feel like the Dolphins went from 7-9 range at default to maybe 8.5-10.5

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I find it significantly more difficult to evaluate quarterbacks now than just a decade ago even. Because I can't understand what half of the coaches are even trying to do. It's a different game.

 

[Danny]

I find it significantly more difficult to evaluate quarterbacks now than just a decade ago even. Because I can't understand what half of the coaches are even trying to do. It's a different game.

When you say what coaches are trying to do.....do you mean college coaches or NLF coaches or both?

 

[BigNastyFish]

This quarterback stuff was easier for me decades ago. Early '90s I could look at an Andre Ware or David Klingler and say no chance. NFL defenses were allowed to nullify these guys at the point. I was on Las Vegas radio doing the pre draft stuff for the Stardust Line on KDWN during those years and really had an unfair advantage by just saying no to this guy and no to that guy. They were picked high first round but really the likelihood was far below that. My gosh there were first round stiffs in that era...Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich, Tommy Maddux. I knew I was basically cheating but as long as the audience didn't understand that everything was okay. I got more praise and comps than warranted.

Considerably more complicated now. Like Daniel Jones, is the NFL going to reduce him or not? First week his strengths were enabled to the forefront but once coordinators paid more attention now the lack of arm strength and familiar problems from Duke have surfaced. One awful duck after another, kind of like Marinovich. Tonight will be interesting but not definitive. Smart guys but slightly lacking in arm strength and ideal physical tools are the ones I struggle with, like Matt Ryan going in one direction but Matt Leinart the other.

Fromm is unquestionably above a Daniel Jones in terms of arm and raw passing ability. I really wish he had arrived at Georgia a few years earlier. There would be far more games amidst normalcy and not the huge situational edge based on Georgia's power running game under Kirby Smart. Everybody wants to doubt Tua along those lines but over 2018 and 2019 when both have been full time starters there is no question that Georgia's offensive line is more powerful and simply enables comfortable situations for Fromm. It wouldn't be a big deal if he had 10 inch hands and escapability like Russell Wilson. When he's somewhat limited already and not the greatest physical specimen, I really wonder what that ceiling is.

I listened to a partial podcast last night in which it was emphasized that Fromm makes plays. He wouldn't be on these lists or within these discussions if he didn't make plays. Those plays severely reduced in number once Alabama started applying the clamps in both 2017 and 2018. I had no confidence whatsoever that Georgia could score a touchdown, once the intensity level shifted. Contrast to DeShaun Watson in those two title games. Alabama couldn't do a thing with DeShaun Watson when the outcome was on the line. Clemson scored a combined 37 points in the 4th quarter of those two championship games under Watson.

In Jake Fromm's two games against Alabama, with either a national title or a playoff berth on the line, Georgia has a combined 0 points in the 4th quarter.

In fairness, Georgia did manage a situationally blessed field goal in overtime of the championship game against Alabama, courtesy of debuting at the Alabama 25 yard line. It turned into a 51 yard field goal after a drive that went backwards.

Tua didn't go backwards, as I recall.

I realize that is two games. The same type of thing occurred against Texas in the bowl game last year. Texas wanted to be there and Georgia did not. There was glaring potential for that beforehand. A quarterback needs to understand the situational deficit and seize the day. Instead Jake Fromm seemed totally unprepared. Without a running game to dictate matters he looked very ordinary. Same thing occurred in 2017 at Auburn. I'm sure Slimm remembers that game. In the NFL as I've long emphasized these games are not created equal. The schedule maker is going to present you with many games per season in which the opponent is more energized. Fromm is going to have to deal with those realities, and without a 6 yards per carry running game to soothe matters.

I'm not saying no to him. Today's NFL rules and defenses don't say no to a quarterback on that level. I wouldn't be excited. It would feel like the Dolphins went from 7-9 range at default to maybe 8.5-10.5

Very good post IMO and legit "questions" about Fromm. But I'd say any college QB you project into the N F L enters the league (or perhaps I should say the process of becoming a PRO) with some degree of uncertainty (the variance of that "uncertainty" is effectively reflected via draft position).

That said I tend to see all college QB evaluations and subsequent "ratings" as estimations/approximations of PROficiency. Bigger point IMO, the "ratings" should have ZERO to do with head-to-head comparisons at the college level simply because we're projecting to different level of overall competition and composition.

For example, just because DeShaun Watson tore it up against 'bama does not mean he's gonna tear it up against the best NFL teams (specifically the best N F L Defenses). How a college QBs game translates to the PROs is the absolute mystery aspect every PRO GM is trying to solve.

How this relates to Fromm is, IMO, rather "traditional." The kid demonstrates a number of qualities and skills that historically translate well to the PROs. And I'm pretty sure the PRO evaluators aren't looking at Fromm based on his superior athletic prowess or his amazing physical specs. Traditionally speaking, he's a QB playing QB, as opposed to an athlete playing QB.

Of course if you can get BOTH (superior athlete and intrinsic QB) in one package you'll supposedly have it "all." But historically, that combination seems almost impossible to ascertain so your PRO "prototype" needs to reflect that fact accordingly.