Young and Fromm | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Young and Fromm

Dolphins do not need THE quarterback. Dolphins need A quarterback. Seahawks are competing with Russ, KC with Mahomes, Niners with Garoppolo, Rams with Goff, Texans with Watson, etc. Dolphins just like any other team just need one good quarterback, and not a particular one like Tua.

To that end, the fact that so many drafts passed with good QBs and the GM did nothing means that this GM should be fired immediately. He is a scoundrel and a swindler.

Second, when Dolphins look for good quarterbacks they should look for a QB who matches other good quarterbacks in college production first and foremost: must throw a lot of touchdowns, low interception, and not take a lot of sacks, and must move the ball, have good average per attempt. Second must be competitive, a winner, and cannot have uncompetitive outtings, like lose a bowl game 62-3. Must be tall, must have an arm, throw from opposite hash in college to far boundary, and should be a multi year starter, was recognized as good early and he delivered.
And that's it. Just A good quarterback, so that the Dolphins can enter a superbowl window for that quarterback and compete, which is something the criminal swindlers that run the Dolphins do not get, the competing part and working hard and smart. Every year you have to compete, cannot take a year off.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
This quarterback stuff was easier for me decades ago. Early '90s I could look at an Andre Ware or David Klingler and say no chance. NFL defenses were allowed to nullify these guys at the point. I was on Las Vegas radio doing the pre draft stuff for the Stardust Line on KDWN during those years and really had an unfair advantage by just saying no to this guy and no to that guy. They were picked high first round but really the likelihood was far below that. My gosh there were first round stiffs in that era...Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich, Tommy Maddux. I knew I was basically cheating but as long as the audience didn't understand that everything was okay. I got more praise and comps than warranted.

Considerably more complicated now. Like Daniel Jones, is the NFL going to reduce him or not? First week his strengths were enabled to the forefront but once coordinators paid more attention now the lack of arm strength and familiar problems from Duke have surfaced. One awful duck after another, kind of like Marinovich. Tonight will be interesting but not definitive. Smart guys but slightly lacking in arm strength and ideal physical tools are the ones I struggle with, like Matt Ryan going in one direction but Matt Leinart the other.

Fromm is unquestionably above a Daniel Jones in terms of arm and raw passing ability. I really wish he had arrived at Georgia a few years earlier. There would be far more games amidst normalcy and not the huge situational edge based on Georgia's power running game under Kirby Smart. Everybody wants to doubt Tua along those lines but over 2018 and 2019 when both have been full time starters there is no question that Georgia's offensive line is more powerful and simply enables comfortable situations for Fromm. It wouldn't be a big deal if he had 10 inch hands and escapability like Russell Wilson. When he's somewhat limited already and not the greatest physical specimen, I really wonder what that ceiling is.

I listened to a partial podcast last night in which it was emphasized that Fromm makes plays. He wouldn't be on these lists or within these discussions if he didn't make plays. Those plays severely reduced in number once Alabama started applying the clamps in both 2017 and 2018. I had no confidence whatsoever that Georgia could score a touchdown, once the intensity level shifted. Contrast to DeShaun Watson in those two title games. Alabama couldn't do a thing with DeShaun Watson when the outcome was on the line. Clemson scored a combined 37 points in the 4th quarter of those two championship games under Watson.

In Jake Fromm's two games against Alabama, with either a national title or a playoff berth on the line, Georgia has a combined 0 points in the 4th quarter.

In fairness, Georgia did manage a situationally blessed field goal in overtime of the championship game against Alabama, courtesy of debuting at the Alabama 25 yard line. It turned into a 51 yard field goal after a drive that went backwards.

Tua didn't go backwards, as I recall.

I realize that is two games. The same type of thing occurred against Texas in the bowl game last year. Texas wanted to be there and Georgia did not. There was glaring potential for that beforehand. A quarterback needs to understand the situational deficit and seize the day. Instead Jake Fromm seemed totally unprepared. Without a running game to dictate matters he looked very ordinary. Same thing occurred in 2017 at Auburn. I'm sure Slimm remembers that game. In the NFL as I've long emphasized these games are not created equal. The schedule maker is going to present you with many games per season in which the opponent is more energized. Fromm is going to have to deal with those realities, and without a 6 yards per carry running game to soothe matters.

I'm not saying no to him. Today's NFL rules and defenses don't say no to a quarterback on that level. I wouldn't be excited. It would feel like the Dolphins went from 7-9 range at default to maybe 8.5-10.5
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I’m going to give Fromm a partial pass on above based on following:
I recall Bama front being dominant and Fromm was a baby.
Let’s see how he does in road games against Auburn & Florida and thereafter in CFPlayoffs.
 
LargoFin said:
Dolphins do not need THE quarterback. Dolphins need A quarterback. Seahawks are competing with Russ, KC with Mahomes, Niners with Garoppolo, Rams with Goff, Texans with Watson, etc. Dolphins just like any other team just need one good quarterback, and not a particular one like Tua.

To that end, the fact that so many drafts passed with good QBs and the GM did nothing means that this GM should be fired immediately. He is a scoundrel and a swindler.

Second, when Dolphins look for good quarterbacks they should look for a QB who matches other good quarterbacks in college production first and foremost: must throw a lot of touchdowns, low interception, and not take a lot of sacks, and must move the ball, have good average per attempt. Second must be competitive, a winner, and cannot have uncompetitive outtings, like lose a bowl game 62-3. Must be tall, must have an arm, throw from opposite hash in college to far boundary, and should be a multi year starter, was recognized as good early and he delivered.
And that's it. Just A good quarterback, so that the Dolphins can enter a superbowl window for that quarterback and compete, which is something the criminal swindlers that run the Dolphins do not get, the competing part and working hard and smart. Every year you have to compete, cannot take a year off.
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fear grier.jpg
 
TedSlimmJr said:
I find it significantly more difficult to evaluate quarterbacks now than just a decade ago even. Because I can't understand what half of the coaches are even trying to do. It's a different game.
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Leverage their athletes against the opponents athletes in space. Hardly any development, which is why Tua looks so good. He's accurate, smart, and has the athletes.

If we draft 3rd...I would be happy with Young, Thomas, and Ruggs. That's if we don't pay Cincy a kings ransom (two #1's, a 2nd, and a #1 in '21) this year to move up. This wouldn't be so bad either.
 
DPhinz_DPhinz said:
Leverage their athletes against the opponents athletes in space. Hardly any development, which is why Tua looks so good. He's accurate, smart, and has the athletes.

If we draft 3rd...I would be happy with Young, Thomas, and Ruggs. That's if we don't pay Cincy a kings ransom (two #1's, a 2nd, and a #1 in '21) this year to move up. This wouldn't be so bad either.
Click to expand...


Well I can figure out the easy ones. Like Tua being better than Trevor Lawrence.
 
Lovethefish said:
I posed a question in either this thread or another, what to do if we are sitting at #2.
It becomes more interesting in relationship to the QB2 discussion.
The business of tanking leaves NO room for error.
CK - who I follow on Twitter - referred to possible league investigation - I believe those concerns are alleviated by the ineptitudes of Cincinnati & Washington. This leads me to push the tank to next level - IMO I am SITTING X MAN this week. TIght hammy.
This will be the MOST IMPORTANT game MIAMI will have played in the last 20 years and it’s a MUST LOSE. Allow me to show you possible options at #2:

1. Stand pat- take your best QB. With Tua likely gone - will be Fromm for me. IMO the safest and most reasonable course.

2. Attempt to trade up.
Hopeful it’s WASH & they believe in Haskins. Likely cost Pick 2 & Steelers Pick Rd1 & 2021 Rd1 or Rd2.

3. Trade down.
Only viable if your grades on Eason-Love-Fromm are close. Playing a dangerous game.

Look at the COSTS of winning one “meaningless” game.
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Absolutely. Makes no sense not to go for broke at this point. Problem is, even with the objectively worst roster, with a few stray bounces we could still end up winning a few games--given how bad washington and cincy are. Far from inconceivable.

At some point it really becomes how minimal can you keep the paper trail to avoid later league retribution. You start to wonder what the control mechanism is to ensure pick 1. One level of tanking is Grier and Ross are 100% in on it, but then essentially everyone else is playing against those two to try to win. But what if this is not enough?

Imagine our week 16 game against cincy and we are tied with them for pick 1...would Grier be willing to force Flores to tank? And what if Cincy is doing the same? The more people you involve in a crime the more likely you are to get caught.

And just because we are in the first half of the season does not mean this Washington game is less important...really we should be employing a similar strategy now because even 1 extra win could spoil it all.
 
LargoFin said:
Dolphins do not need THE quarterback. Dolphins need A quarterback. Seahawks are competing with Russ, KC with Mahomes, Niners with Garoppolo, Rams with Goff, Texans with Watson, etc. Dolphins just like any other team just need one good quarterback, and not a particular one like Tua.

To that end, the fact that so many drafts passed with good QBs and the GM did nothing means that this GM should be fired immediately. He is a scoundrel and a swindler.

Second, when Dolphins look for good quarterbacks they should look for a QB who matches other good quarterbacks in college production first and foremost: must throw a lot of touchdowns, low interception, and not take a lot of sacks, and must move the ball, have good average per attempt. Second must be competitive, a winner, and cannot have uncompetitive outtings, like lose a bowl game 62-3. Must be tall, must have an arm, throw from opposite hash in college to far boundary, and should be a multi year starter, was recognized as good early and he delivered.
And that's it. Just A good quarterback, so that the Dolphins can enter a superbowl window for that quarterback and compete, which is something the criminal swindlers that run the Dolphins do not get, the competing part and working hard and smart. Every year you have to compete, cannot take a year off.
Click to expand...
isaacjunk said:
Absolutely. Makes no sense not to go for broke at this point. Problem is, even with the objectively worst roster, with a few stray bounces we could still end up winning a few games--given how bad washington and cincy are. Far from inconceivable.

At some point it really becomes how minimal can you keep the paper trail to avoid later league retribution. You start to wonder what the control mechanism is to ensure pick 1. One level of tanking is Grier and Ross are 100% in on it, but then essentially everyone else is playing against those two to try to win. But what if this is not enough?

Imagine our week 16 game against cincy and we are tied with them for pick 1...would Grier be willing to force Flores to tank? And what if Cincy is doing the same? The more people you involve in a crime the more likely you are to get caught.

And just because we are in the first half of the season does not mean this Washington game is less important...really we should be employing a similar strategy now because even 1 extra win could spoil it all.
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Really fascinating
I find myself following Steelers / Texans for losses and Skins/ Bengals for wins. Weird season.
 
Looks like my “not so creative idea of sitting X” is picking up steam LOL!
 
Fromm not playing too well today. It’s been a meh day for him. That’s the same D that Tua played against.
 
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Fromm was bad. Definite stock down bad. After that performance
I wouldn't touch him inside the top 10. He'll have to really amp his game
to erase the stink... GA O is less creative than a bath mat!
 
BigNastyFish said:
Fromm was bad. Definite stock down bad. After that performance
I wouldn't touch him inside the top 10. He'll have to really amp his game to erase the stink... GA O is less creative than a bath mat!
Click to expand...

I don't want to overreact to one game but I keep going back to the Razor Ruddock Syndrome. Georgia has received a heck of a lot of credit and benefit of a doubt, based primarily on two defeats. Not merely two defeats but sacrificing double digit second half leads both times. Razor Ruddock himself didn't give away advantage like that.

Fromm looks like a clever confident player most of the time. He have Alabama fits in the first three quarters of those two games. But his overall stature and ability level make me question his upside at the next level. Is he going to be somewhat above an Andy Dalton type, or somewhat below?

With the best run blocking offensive line in the country there should be countless opportunities for dagger throws. That's why the YPA for option teams is always astronomical. The devastating running game opens things up downfield. Somehow that has not translated to Jake Fromm. Georgia's number of explosive pass plays is ridiculously low, almost to the point it shouldn't be possible. Keep scrolling this entire tweet:

https://www.canesinsight.com/threads/uga-fans-already-hate-coley.152863/#post-4260129
 
Awsi Dooger said:
I don't want to overreact to one game but I keep going back to the Razor Ruddock Syndrome. Georgia has received a heck of a lot of credit and benefit of a doubt, based primarily on two defeats. Not merely two defeats but sacrificing double digit second half leads both times. Razor Ruddock himself didn't give away advantage like that.

Fromm looks like a clever confident player most of the time. He have Alabama fits in the first three quarters of those two games. But his overall stature and ability level make me question his upside at the next level. Is he going to be somewhat above an Andy Dalton type, or somewhat below?

With the best run blocking offensive line in the country there should be countless opportunities for dagger throws. That's why the YPA for option teams is always astronomical. The devastating running game opens things up downfield. Somehow that has not translated to Jake Fromm. Georgia's number of explosive pass plays is ridiculously low, almost to the point it shouldn't be possible. Keep scrolling this entire tweet:

https://www.canesinsight.com/threads/uga-fans-already-hate-coley.152863/#post-4260129
Click to expand...

His accuracy today was shabby at best. To me if you're a less than ideal athlete and lack a great arm,
height, legs, mobility to effect outcomes, then you better be surgical (i.e., precise). The coverage he faced
today was overall NFL tight (due to his over-matched receivers) and IMO it seriously impacted Fromm.

Of course you can say that about any also-ran college QB and still look at the kid as developmental
but you ain't pickin' that stuff at the top end of R1! I just get the distinct feeling Jake was kinda exposed
today and from everything I saw -- I'd have to say Rosen is better prospect for us RIGHT NOW but

he's gotta prove out in the next 10-12 games... But no way, based on what Fromm demonstrated today
rather consistently -- am I hot and bothered for him with either of our top end R1s. The "jabber" about
his potential slide may indeed prove out...
 
That was the same defense Tua threw 5 TDS on, I like Fromm but that game was just ugly for him 1 TD and 3 INts..
 
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