Daniel Jeremiah on Rolando McClain

[newlownorder]

Just because the Browns have had a bad draft history it doesn't mean that this guy is a bad scout. It's a whole group of people that make decisions. Randy Mueller was an above average GM/scout with Seattle and New Orleans, but he stunk here. Does that mean we wouldn't respect his opinions? He may have been in charge when we went 1-15, but he was also in charge when the Saints won their first playoff game ever. Rick Spielman as awful here, but he's put together some nice pieces for the Vikings (and not just Adrian Peterson).

Don't look at just where they worked. This guy is doing his own draft coverage, and he has inside info because of his past experiences, and also knows what to look for in a player

Looking more into it, he was one of two of their top scouts. He was not involved with bringing Cribbs to Cleveland as a undrafted FA and Joe Thomas. Those two I consider the two best players on that team. There has to be some accountability on the guy for how the Browns drafted when he was there. There was a reason why he was let go by the Browns. Yes, he is a scout and knows what teams look for and how they go about approaching the draft. Personally, I'm not going to put as much value into what he says because of his track record. I personally believe McClain is no doubt a top 10 NFL draft pick. Just because 6 teams said he's outside the top 10 is not going to sway me to believe in his assessment of McClain. Any one of us can watch tape on a guy and find flaws. I would dare anyone to watch the games he played this year and last year and then try to convince me that he's not worth top 10 consideration.

 

[ChambersWI]

You can't take a Freeney comparison as a player unless:

1. You have a wicked spin move
2. You turn the corner exceptionally

I don't think Graham does either. He's inconsistent when trying to get small and turn the corner, I don't like his body flexibility, and I don't think he has a wicked spin move. You're right that there are differences between Graham and Woodley. Woodley couldn't touch Graham's mobility. On the other hand, I think Woodley was a more flexible and improvisational athlete. I haven't quite figured out a good comparison for Graham yet.

my point was Graham has a quick first step. I'll agree Woodley has more variety, but I also think that comes from playing in a 3-4 D for 3 years at Michigan (they didn't make the switch to a 4-3 until late in his junior year). Graham in a lot of ways is still really raw as a pass rusher. He was recruited as a LB, played as a backup DT his Freshmen year after getting up to 276. Dropped down to about 250 to be a speed rusher as a sophomore. Then under Rodriguez, was allowed to get up to a natural weight and play strongside DE.

As for a comparison for Graham... people over at draftcountdown have taken a liking to comparing him to Trent Cole; not a horrible comparison but not great.

 

[ckparrothead]

Any think Berry could drop? I've said it in other posts, but Safety just doesn't hold the value even if he is this good, at the top of the draft. The value is paying Qbs, Dts, and LTs.

1. St.Louis-Bradford-If shoulder checks out.
2. Detroit-Suh-easy pick
3. TB-McCoy- easy pick
4. Washington-Clausen-Shanny wants his own QB, skins wanted one last year. Big Name, don't take Berry cause they have a high pick in Landry
5. KC-Okung-Terrible LT now, help protect the 63 mil dollar man Cassel
6. Seattle-Bruce CampbellLT-This to me is the danger team on taking Berry because of their weak secondary plus Carroll likes Defense but Walter Jones being gone may push up Anthony Davis, which I'm hoping for.
7. Cleveland-Dez Bryant- They need some weapons, he runs under 4.5 and he's gone.
8. Oakland-Anthony Davis- They need a LT to help protect whoever is playing QB.
9. Buffalo-Brian Baluga-Have no LT at all, Chan wants to at leats protect his crappy Qbs. Afeter baluga, big dropoff in talent. More important then Safety position to this team currently and they have Byrd
10. Jax-Morgan or Haden-Need someone who can create pressure or play opposite Mathis in the South when they play Peyton or SCahub. They could take Berry to help this out.
11. Den-Dan Williams- They want a NT, Dan is going to be it, have Good safeties.

12. Dolphins-Berry- I can dream right??


I do see this scenario as potentially happening but I also see a team trading up before us to grab him if he does somehow fall. The two teams who may value him are Seattle or Jacksonville that are ahead of us. I think the other teams ahead of us, no matter how good he is as a player, may find better value for their money in taking other players.

Todays big dream, Berry drops to 12

I wouldn't discount the possibility completely. But I still heavily doubt it.

 

[ChambersWI]

Any think Berry could drop? I've said it in other posts, but Safety just doesn't hold the value even if he is this good, at the top of the draft. The value is paying Qbs, Dts, and LTs.

1. St.Louis-Bradford-If shoulder checks out.
2. Detroit-Suh-easy pick
3. TB-McCoy- easy pick
4. Washington-Clausen-Shanny wants his own QB, skins wanted one last year. Big Name, don't take Berry cause they have a high pick in Landry
5. KC-Okung-Terrible LT now, help protect the 63 mil dollar man Cassel
6. Seattle-Bruce CampbellLT-This to me is the danger team on taking Berry because of their weak secondary plus Carroll likes Defense but Walter Jones being gone may push up Anthony Davis, which I'm hoping for.
7. Cleveland-Dez Bryant- They need some weapons, he runs under 4.5 and he's gone.
8. Oakland-Anthony Davis- They need a LT to help protect whoever is playing QB.
9. Buffalo-Brian Baluga-Have no LT at all, Chan wants to at leats protect his crappy Qbs. Afeter baluga, big dropoff in talent. More important then Safety position to this team currently and they have Byrd
10. Jax-Morgan or Haden-Need someone who can create pressure or play opposite Mathis in the South when they play Peyton or SCahub. They could take Berry to help this out.
11. Den-Dan Williams- They want a NT, Dan is going to be it, have Good safeties.

12. Dolphins-Berry- I can dream right??


I do see this scenario as potentially happening but I also see a team trading up before us to grab him if he does somehow fall. The two teams who may value him are Seattle or Jacksonville that are ahead of us. I think the other teams ahead of us, no matter how good he is as a player, may find better value for their money in taking other players.

Todays big dream, Berry drops to 12

I highly doubt Seattle would reach for Campbell. Davis I could see, but not Campbell. If the draft fell like that I see them taking CJ Spiller.

In theory Berry could fall to us, but I highly doubt it

 

[Mr. Magoo]

Graham is everything you want from a mentality and want-to perspective, but I just don't see him being any better than Wake. He doesn't have as good a first step, he doesn't bend the arc as well and he's got shorter arms. Wake also showed a lot of improvement with his bullrush last year as well, which has a lot of technique similarities to playing the run in terms of using your hands and arms to extend. I'm probably in the minority on this, but I would be perfectly (okay, maybe not perfectly) okay going into the season with Wake and Anderson on the weakside.

And especially now that Miami will probably tip their hand more and have the weakside guy rush most of the time a-la Elvis Dumerville rather than run a textbook 3-4 and drop into coverage (which, you know, despite all the guff made about that, I didn't see Porter doing much of last year), I just can't see Graham being the pick.

The bigger concern on defense is the strongside OLB, and especially ILB.

As far as SOLB, can you be comfortable with Merling (assuming that's the plan) and Taylor (assuming he comes back) switching off there? Maybe. It's a pretty big risk. You'd probably have to convince Taylor he'd be rushing the passer a lot more than playing the run. With those freakishly long, strong arms of his he actually did a pretty good job playing the run last year (though not as well as Roth), but didn't seem to enjoy it much.

Of the strongside guys in the draft I'd say Worilds is the best, but he's as much of a conversion project as Merling. As for who has more upside at that position, I couldn't really say. I'll leave that to smarter and more informed people than me.

ILB and S are clearly the biggest concern spots on defense. This isn't a great ILB draft, for reasons than have been stated ad nauseum. I would throw in my hat with those who say that we're probably going to have to fill it with multiple pieces, ie a run stopping guy and a pass coverage guy to switch off next to Crowder. Spikes and Edd's names get thrown around a lot, and that makes some sense on paper. Dansby would probably fill both needs, but I see no reason to expect us to land him just because we could use him. Graham could be an interesting conversion project to ILB, but that's a fairly big leap.

All of this becomes moot, of course, if Berry drops, but like most sane people I don't expect that to happen. There'll be a lot of options in the middle rounds (Chancellor, Allen, Asante etc).

 

[ckparrothead]

Looking more into it, he was one of two of their top scouts. He was not involved with bringing Cribbs to Cleveland as a undrafted FA and Joe Thomas. Those two I consider the two best players on that team. There has to be some accountability on the guy for how the Browns drafted when he was there. There was a reason why he was let go by the Browns. Yes, he is a scout and knows what teams look for and how they go about approaching the draft. Personally, I'm not going to put as much value into what he says because of his track record. I personally believe McClain is no doubt a top 10 NFL draft pick. Just because 6 teams said he's outside the top 10 is not going to sway me to believe in his assessment of McClain. Any one of us can watch tape on a guy and find flaws. I would dare anyone to watch the games he played this year and last year and then try to convince me that he's not worth top 10 consideration.

To each his own. I don't mind disagreeing with them as well. But there's no reason to dismiss.

 

[SRM]

I knew I wasn't crazy when I started that thread pointing out these same things..

 

[Clipse]

I see McClain being available, as does Jeremiah and apparently the 6 teams he texted about McClain. We'll see.

I can see Cleveland or Denver taking him.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

It really is amazing how we can all watch the same thing and come away with such differing opinions..

Right after the BCS National Championship game....several of you were making threads discussing how "invisible" McClain was in that game.....this scout comes along and says that he saved his best game for last...

They're both wrong...

This guy might be 3 or 4 games in to tape on McClain...I've been over 2 dozen games deep into him since he was freshman...

His best game THIS year was probably the Kentucky game..where he single handedly forced 3 turnovers and Kentucky just couldn't figure out how there was three of him on the field...

He played exceptionally well in the SEC CG....and again in the BCS NC game vs. Texas....what he put on display the best in both of his last two games is his instincts, and sideline to sideline prowess nailing ballcarriers that are some of the fastest players in college football...

McClain has a tendancy to play some of his best games in the biggest games....because that's how prepared he is..

His recognition skills are at an elite level....I'm talking about at an elite level for an NFL linebacker...not just college...

He takes the proper angles....and he doesn't miss tackles...he wraps up, and if he gets near you....you're going down...period...I can't say that about any other linebacker in this draft....especially Weatherspoon and Spikes..

I also find it strange how this time last year...this guy (and many around here) would've had Spikes above all those USC linebackers...

McClain isn't Patrick Willis...nor is any of these linebackers...it'll probably be a long time before we see another one like Willis.....McClain was running 4.6's all summer on campus at Alabama (timed by coaches)...which is pretty good for a 6-4, 255 pound linebacker...I would agree with whoever said they expect him to time around 4.65...

Is he as safe of a pick as Willis was? Absolutely...

What makes McClain be able to function on the football field and play faster than that is in the angles he takes and his elite recognition skills and instincts....which is always better than a 4.4 linebacker who's just running around like a chicken with his head cut off...

I think the Dansby comparison is actually a brilliant one....with the difference being McClain is twice as strong as Dansby was coming out of college (Dansby only did 15 reps of 225 at his pro day)....

I studied Dansby a lot coming out of college and got to see him play plenty at Auburn....Dontarrious Thomas received most of the hype....Dansby was the one that had the knack for making plays...

I don't think there's anyway he escapes the top 15 picks....if he does, I have no doubt there's going to be some teams kicking themselves for letting a rare stud like this get by them...

 

[ChadHenne]

I've seen improvement in McClain's game each year he was in college. I only see him getting better each year that he is in the NFL.

He may not be a Brian Cushing or Patrick Willis immediate impact player, but he is well worth the #12 selection and will make a big impact for this team when the time comes. If Dez is gone, we gotta go McClain.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

I think they're going to want to use the opportunity at #12 to grab a guy that will help fix the OLB situation into the ideal situation that they would like it to be. They're not happy with the combo of Joey Porter and Jason Taylor, I think they've made that plain. But there's also a lingering (though at times baffling) discomfort with Cameron Wake. I wish they would just get over that and push the bird off the damn cliff and see if he flies, but it is what it is.

A guy that seems to have "the makeup" and is recently getting lots of acclaim, but a guy that I have not always been comfortable with, is Brandon Graham. The moment Mike Nolan stepped on board, Brandon Graham's likelihood for Miami shot up dramatically. Nolan has no issue with shorter OLBs, see Parys Haralson (whom he helped choose for San Fran) and Elvis Dumervil (whom he made into a star in Denver).

So right now I just have to forecast that the most likely pick for the Miami Dolphins at #12 is Brandon Graham. And I see that Wes Bunting agrees.

They're talking a lot about the NT position right now...but I think that's something they try and address before the draft. They're paying VERY close attention to the situation with Vince Wilfork, and likely Casey Hampton as well. And they're also trying to figure out whether to get Jason Ferguson back, IMO.

I see Earl Thomas as a CB in the NFL. And now that I'm reading more of Daniel Jeremiah, evidently one team he's in contact with told him directly that they have Earl as their #2 CB in the entire draft. So, I'm not alone in that one.

It may be Brandon Graham, but it could also be other OLBs. You don't know if they'll fall in love with a Jerry Hughes. Remember, Elvis Dumervil was pretty much a pass rusher only. He wasn't some great all-around player. I think that Jerry Hughes is the best all-around pass rusher in this draft. I tend to doubt it will be Jason Pierre-Paul. I'm not sure he has "the makeup". But Nolan did have input on the physical freak Manny Lawson in San Fran, and I find it interesting that he ended up putting him at SOLB with the 49ers and not having him rush the passer as much. JPP compares favorably with Manny from a physical standpoint, I just don't know if he compares from a mental makeup standpoint. The guy you absolutely don't sleep on would be Everson Griffen. He is a very explosive, very athletic, and very good pass rusher. I don't know if he's an all around linebacker, but he did drop back in coverage and play from an up position at USC (not necessarily especially well) and remember, Elvis Dumervil wasn't some great all around linebacker and that seemed fine for Mike Nolan. Derrick Morgan tugs at me because I love him so much as a player. Denver drafted Robert Ayers...did Nolan have input on that pick? If so, Morgan is absolutely in play. If not, then probably not. I have a hard time seeing Ricky Sapp or Sergio Kindle being in play at the #12 spot.

Outside of the OLB candidates for #12, I think you have the possibility that they do circle back and take a NT or some kind of DL generalist. The two stronger possibilities there are Dan Williams and Jared Odrick. Odrick believes he can play the 0 Technique and he's even talked with some teams about doing so.

That's really about it. If I had to develop a short list, let's say 6 names...it would include Brandon Graham, Everson Griffen, Jerry Hughes, Jared Odrick, Dan Williams and Rolando McClain.

I can see E. Griffin being a perfect compliment to Wake - same story for Morgan. I remember seeing a few mocks where Griffin went top 10, but most of the recent mocks have him falling to the 2nd. I think he's a potentially dynamic SOLB and wouldn't be upset if we drafted him at 12. My exposure to Morgan has been limited, but Griffin seems to be more of an explosive natural talent. I love Morgan - just think that Griffin might have more upside. Thoughts?

I've been really high on Graham for a while, but I'm beginning to agree that he's more of a WOLB in a 3-4 scheme. And, I think/hope/pray we have our WOLB in Wake.

 

[ckparrothead]

Griffen was a very highly recruited player if I'm not mistaken, consensus All America, all that jazz. Very explosive coming out of high school. I think he lived up to his billing this year. The way he moves and maintains balance on a frame that is supposed to be 278 pounds is, at times, just not fair. And he is fast enough to catch a scrambling QB where Morgan did scare some folks when he couldn't catch Ricky Stanzi from behind.

If Mike Nolan was involved in the Robert Ayers decision, then in Griffen he has to see a guy that reminds him a lot of a more productive Ayers with an actually fearsome speed rush.

Of course, in some ways I think Brandon Graham will remind Nolan of Ayers, because Graham was a linebacker before being asked to beef up and play defensive line. That's Ayers' story.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Think he was the highest rated recruit out of Arizona since T. Suggs. I'll be interested to see where he's being projected in late March/early April.

 

[ckparrothead]

Pete Carroll is on record saying that he's one of the best recruits that USC has ever had.

He came in his freshman year and he was the first player in 21 years to start a USC season opener on the defensive line as a freshman. He actually had a really nice freshman year.

What happened afterwards was an interesting lesson for Everson. What happens when a guy who has been told for years now that he is "the man" is confronted by a totally unheralded player...that is just plain better?

That's what happened between Griffen and Clay Matthews. Matthews, by the way, just finished up a HECK of a rookie season with the Green Bay Packers. Take his draft position in the low 1st round aside, if the NFL could re-draft, Matthews would go in the top 5 or 10 based on what he showed this year. So really, there is no shame in a guy like Everson Griffen getting beat out by Clay Matthews.

But back then, I think only Pete Carroll knew that...and Everson certainly didn't.

His teammates refer to him as a freak, but what they saw this year was a real turning point when coach Jethro Franklin arrived. Griffen adores the coach, and teammates saw a big change in Griffen's work ethic and attitude. I think he became what they were hoping for this year.

One thing you worry about is his durability and handling of adversity. He obviously didn't handle things well in 2008. He seems very humbled by that experience. But also in 2009 he was working on a streak of 8 sacks (at least one in each game) in the last 6 games against Ohio State, Washington, Washington State, California, Notre Dame and Oregon State when he hurt his toe against Oregon. He didn't practice all week and missed the Arizona State game. He didn't have any sacks or TFLs in the next four games and his tackle production also went down.

I mean, you just watch him play and on that frame (and in one of the YouTube interviews you see him without his shirt on, the guy is stacked) and he's very fast and unfair at changing directions.

If I had to whittle the 6 names down to 5 names and then choose which one I personally would prefer, it would be Everson Griffen, definitely.

I think he has the makeup. I think he is a world class athlete. He satisfies everything that you would think this front office wants at #12.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

He had been off my radar - after seeing him go top 8 in a few mocks - but especially under a coach like Nolan, I can see him dominating. In every sense, I think he's a better pick than McClain.