ESPN James Walker: Fins have 3rd best defense........in the AFC East

[nyjunc]

You had to beat us for any of that other stuff to even matter, you didn’t, so we did in fact end your season.


Getting beat by us in head-to-head matchups makes you the better team? That must be New York logic.



You claimed you were the better “team”, offense and special teams aren’t part of the team? If you want we can just look at since Rex took over, does losing 4 of 6 really make you feel much better?


Wow, you have to go back over ten years to feel good about the series?


What about not sweeping us and still sucking like last season?



Did you when you said they were ranked 12[SUP]th[/SUP] or did you leave all of that in for the other teams to stack the deck? The only fair way to do it is leave it as it is and don’t make any excuses, you guys were 20[SUP]th[/SUP] in points allowed.



Easy, the 2011 Miami Dolphins Defense. We did find a way to get wins, we got six of them, one ending your season.


You just prove my point every time you make this silly argument, your team had everything to play for and our team had nothing to play for and yet our defense was better than yours. Not only were they a more talented group but they also obviously had more heart.


Miami – 1[SUP]st[/SUP] in scoring D, 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] in Total D
New York- 1[SUP]st[/SUP] in Total D, 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] in Scoring D

That’s all the evidence I need, Miami was the best defense in the division.

Had we won both of those games would we have made either postseason? the answer is NO so the games were meaningless for us.

Having the MUCH better record and WINNING in postseason makes us the MUCH better team.

I don't care if we never beat the dolphins as long as we make the playoffs and have a chance to win in January. The dolphins have matched up well w/ us just not w/ anyone else.

Look at each teams record vs. the rest of the league:

2009-2011:

NY Jets 30-18 including playoffs

Miami 16-26
Jets-dolphins series:

since 2011: 1-1
since 2010: 2-2
2009: Mia 4 NYJ 2
2008: Miami 5 NYJ 3
2007: 5-5
2006: 7-5 NYJ
2005: 8-6 NYJ
2004: 10-6 NYJ
2003: 10-8 NYJ
2002: 11-9 NYJ
2001: 13-9 NYJ

your small edge of late was all due to one fluky game w/ 3 non offensive TDs scored.

We sucked in 2011 but we sucked less than you guys.

I didn't today but a couple of months ago I did and they were around 12, I don't remember the exact # though.

The only fair way is to judge Ds on ACTUAL points allowed.

The great Miami D that helped them to 0-7. Let's look at that great start from the great D.

week 1: allow 38 pts and 500+ pass yds against NE
week 2: allow Hou to get to 16-3 lead, Miami comes back to pull w/in 3 and they allow another TD to make it a 10 pt loss in 23-13 game
week 3: finally held team under 20 pts- the mighty Cleveland Browns but what did they do w/ a late 6 pt lead? They allowed Colt McCoy to lead an 80 YD TD drive w/ just over 3 mins to play when the drive began.
week 4: get w/in a TD at SD in the 4th qtr, D allows FG to lose 26-16
week 6: only allowed 17 to NYJ, played ok.
week 7: pitching shutout against Den for over 3 1/2 qtrs, Den gets ball at own 20 w/ 5:23 to play. They go 80 yds to pull w.in 15-7, recover onside kick w/ undre 3 mins to play then go 56 yds to score pulling w/in 15-13. What does the great dolphin D do next? allows 2 pt conversion for the tie then lose in OT.
week 8: D blows 14-3 lead in 1st half and 17-10 lead in 4th to lose 20-17 to NYG.

GREATNESS!

I haven't argued our D was great last year, i think our D was mediocre and they killed us.

That proves it. Congrats

Jets D allowed 20.4 PPG
Mia D allowed 20 PPG

Miami D played meaningless games the 2nd half of the season. The D's produced at a simialr level, neither was very good but only a dolphin homwe would suggest Miami will have a better D in 2012.

 

[Fins1971]

Not even close. The Pats D is one of the worst in the league.

No they are NOT. The Patriots were 15th in scoring defense last year.
At midseason they went on a 10 game winning streak where the defense allowed 188 points during crunch time.


So what they allow alot of yards after they are up by 2 to 3 scores.
That has nothing to do with defense. They exchange yards for time.
Yards allowed is such an overated stat.

In addition they forced 23 Ints and recovered 17 fumbles.
That is 40 forced turnovers which was near the top of the league and better than anything our defense did.

Defense is about limiting points scored and forcing turnovers. And the patriots do that better than us.

 

[nyjunc]

No they are NOT. The Patriots were 15th in scoring defense last year.
At midseason they went on a 10 game winning streak where the defense allowed 188 points during crunch time.


So what they allow alot of yards after they are up by 2 to 3 scores.
That has nothing to do with defense. They exchange yards for time.
Yards allowed is such an overated stat.

In addition they forced 23 Ints and recovered 17 fumbles.
That is 40 forced turnovers which was near the top of the league and better than anything our defense did.

Defense is about limiting points scored and forcing turnovers. And the patriots do that better than us.

The Pats D, while not great, was very underrated last year.

 

[Fins1971]

The Pats D, while not great, was very underrated last year.

Agreed, in addition the Fins defense gave up late leads in 5 football games, (browns, broncos, giants, cowboys and patriots)

The patriots only squandered 3 games. (Bills, and Giants twice.)

 

[DuderinoN703]

Had we won both of those games would we have made either postseason? the answer is NO so the games were meaningless for us.

Having the MUCH better record and WINNING in postseason makes us the MUCH better team.

I don't care if we never beat the dolphins as long as we make the playoffs and have a chance to win in January. The dolphins have matched up well w/ us just not w/ anyone else.

Look at each teams record vs. the rest of the league:

2009-2011:

NY Jets 30-18 including playoffs

Miami 16-26
Jets-dolphins series:

since 2011: 1-1
since 2010: 2-2
2009: Mia 4 NYJ 2
2008: Miami 5 NYJ 3
2007: 5-5
2006: 7-5 NYJ
2005: 8-6 NYJ
2004: 10-6 NYJ
2003: 10-8 NYJ
2002: 11-9 NYJ
2001: 13-9 NYJ

your small edge of late was all due to one fluky game w/ 3 non offensive TDs scored.

We sucked in 2011 but we sucked less than you guys.

I didn't today but a couple of months ago I did and they were around 12, I don't remember the exact # though.

The only fair way is to judge Ds on ACTUAL points allowed.

The great Miami D that helped them to 0-7. Let's look at that great start from the great D.

week 1: allow 38 pts and 500+ pass yds against NE
week 2: allow Hou to get to 16-3 lead, Miami comes back to pull w/in 3 and they allow another TD to make it a 10 pt loss in 23-13 game
week 3: finally held team under 20 pts- the mighty Cleveland Browns but what did they do w/ a late 6 pt lead? They allowed Colt McCoy to lead an 80 YD TD drive w/ just over 3 mins to play when the drive began.
week 4: get w/in a TD at SD in the 4th qtr, D allows FG to lose 26-16
week 6: only allowed 17 to NYJ, played ok.
week 7: pitching shutout against Den for over 3 1/2 qtrs, Den gets ball at own 20 w/ 5:23 to play. They go 80 yds to pull w.in 15-7, recover onside kick w/ undre 3 mins to play then go 56 yds to score pulling w/in 15-13. What does the great dolphin D do next? allows 2 pt conversion for the tie then lose in OT.
week 8: D blows 14-3 lead in 1st half and 17-10 lead in 4th to lose 20-17 to NYG.

GREATNESS!

I haven't argued our D was great last year, i think our D was mediocre and they killed us.

That proves it. Congrats

Jets D allowed 20.4 PPG
Mia D allowed 20 PPG

Miami D played meaningless games the 2nd half of the season. The D's produced at a simialr level, neither was very good but only a dolphin homwe would suggest Miami will have a better D in 2012.

So much time spent on something so obvious it's kind of funny. You and everyone here knows the Jets have been better the last 3 years in each whole season (Phins have a few wins H2H).

The Dolphins being so average/bad, what is it about the Jets being better does it do for you? Do you enjoy pointing out your team has been better the last 3 years? Who cares?

 

[nyjunc]

So much time spent on something so obvious it's kind of funny. You and everyone here knows the Jets have been better the last 3 years in each whole season (Phins have a few wins H2H).

The Dolphins being so average/bad, what is it about the Jets being better does it do for you? Do you enjoy pointing out your team has been better the last 3 years? Who cares?

I don't know? maybe b/c growing up my team was usually very bad? maybe it's just the fun back and forth btw rival fan bases? I enjoy it.

 

[Phinatic8u]

Jesus christ.

13 ****ing pages with the same 4 ****ing people arguing the same **** they've been arguing for 3 ****ing years now.

MOVE THE **** ON. It's a useless argument

****!!

 

[footsteps_falco]

the defense won't matter in this division. it comes down to QB

stats shmats, watch some games. its clear the bills and dolphins are both good teams. the jets werent this year regardless of record. our season was more exciting anyway. 0-7 and still a chance to make playoffs

 

[Zounds]

the defense won't matter in this division. it comes down to QB

stats shmats, watch some games. its clear the bills and dolphins are both good teams. the jets werent this year regardless of record. our season was more exciting anyway. 0-7 and still a chance to make playoffs

Defense is the counter to a good QB, and defense does matter, especially in this division.

 

[The New Guy]

I don't care if we never beat the dolphins as long as we make the playoffs and have a chance to win in January. The dolphins have matched up well w/ us just not w/ anyone else.

Look at each teams record vs. the rest of the league:

2009-2011:

NY Jets 30-18 including playoffs

Miami 16-26
Jets-dolphins series:

since 2011: 1-1
since 2010: 2-2
2009: Mia 4 NYJ 2
2008: Miami 5 NYJ 3
2007: 5-5
2006: 7-5 NYJ
2005: 8-6 NYJ
2004: 10-6 NYJ
2003: 10-8 NYJ
2002: 11-9 NYJ
2001: 13-9 NYJ

your small edge of late was all due to one fluky game w/ 3 non offensive TDs scored.

We sucked in 2011 but we sucked less than you guys.

I don't disagree that the Jets have been the better team these past 3 years, but the gap is not a big as you like to think it is. I don't understand what posting records against the rest of the league proves since the scheduling is different for each team. The only fair way to compare the teams is to post the records in common games. Even that isn't completely fair since things can change drastically for a team from the time 1 team plays them to the time the next team plays them. For instance, playing the Pats with Brady in week 2 in 2010 (when he was coming off his knee injury) was very different than playing them in week 13 when he had his legs back. I posted this before, but here it is again:

Over the last 3 years, both the Dolphins and Jets have both gone 9-9 in the AFCE.

In 2009, the Jets went 3-3 outside the division in common games while the Dolphins went 2-4. A 1 game difference. The Jets got to play the Colts backups while the Dolphins had to face the starters the whole game.

In 2010 the Jets went 5-3 outside the division in common games while Miami went 3-5. A 2 game difference. If it wasn't for a bad call against Pitt when Roethlisberger fumbled on his way to the endzone, the Dolphins would have been even at 4-4. The Dolphins choked away close games agasint Cle and Det while the Jets won those close games with the help of stupid decisions by those teams.

In 2011, the Jets went 4-4 while the Dolphins went 3-5. A 1 game difference. We all know how the game against the Cowboys went for the Jets and how it went for the Dolphins.

So, the Jets have won 4 more games than the Dolphins versus common opponents in 3 seasons. Considering everything, I think that it very close. Don't confuse being let in the playoffs in 09 and matching up well with NE in a playoff game in 10 as being an Elite team. The Jets have been average the last 3 years and although the Dolphins have been worse, they are not that far behind.

 

[DuderinoN703]

I don't know? maybe b/c growing up my team was usually very bad? maybe it's just the fun back and forth btw rival fan bases? I enjoy it.

I get fun. I love fun. I just don't know how arguing the same 3 year period of information is fun. Is it b/c you're on the positive side of it?

 

[nyjunc]

I don't disagree that the Jets have been the better team these past 3 years, but the gap is not a big as you like to think it is. I don't understand what posting records against the rest of the league proves since the scheduling is different for each team. The only fair way to compare the teams is to post the records in common games. Even that isn't completely fair since things can change drastically for a team from the time 1 team plays them to the time the next team plays them. For instance, playing the Pats with Brady in week 2 in 2010 (when he was coming off his knee injury) was very different than playing them in week 13 when he had his legs back. I posted this before, but here it is again:

Over the last 3 years, both the Dolphins and Jets have both gone 9-9 in the AFCE.

In 2009, the Jets went 3-3 outside the division in common games while the Dolphins went 2-4. A 1 game difference. The Jets got to play the Colts backups while the Dolphins had to face the starters the whole game.

In 2010 the Jets went 5-3 outside the division in common games while Miami went 3-5. A 2 game difference. If it wasn't for a bad call against Pitt when Roethlisberger fumbled on his way to the endzone, the Dolphins would have been even at 4-4. The Dolphins choked away close games agasint Cle and Det while the Jets won those close games with the help of stupid decisions by those teams.

In 2011, the Jets went 4-4 while the Dolphins went 3-5. A 1 game difference. We all know how the game against the Cowboys went for the Jets and how it went for the Dolphins.

So, the Jets have won 4 more games than the Dolphins versus common opponents in 3 seasons. Considering everything, I think that it very close. Don't confuse being let in the playoffs in 09 and matching up well with NE in a playoff game in 10 as being an Elite team. The Jets have been average the last 3 years and although the Dolphins have been worse, they are not that far behind.

how is 8 more reg season wins, 4 more postseason wins, 2 more postseason apps not a significant gap?

we play basically the same scheds every year.

in common games:

'09: NE 2x, Buf 2x, Ind, NO, Hou, Atl, TB, Car, Jax, Ten
NYJ: 7-5
Mia: 5-7

'10: NE 2x, Buf 2x, Min, GB, pit, Cin, Bal, Cle, Chi, Det,
NYJ: 8-4
Mia: 4-8

'11: NE 2x, Buf 2x, SD, Den, Oak, KC, NYG, Phi, Dal, Was
NYJ: 6-6
Mia: 5-7

Totals:
NYJ 21-15
Mia 14-22

NYJ 6 games over .500, Miami 8 games under .500

It's not close any way you slice it.

 

[DuderinoN703]

Jesus christ.

13 ****ing pages with the same 4 ****ing people arguing the same **** they've been arguing for 3 ****ing years now.

MOVE THE **** ON. It's a useless argument

****!!

You're a Mod. Ban us all if you have to

---------- Post added at 11:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 AM ----------

I don't disagree that the Jets have been the better team these past 3 years, but the gap is not a big as you like to think it is. I don't understand what posting records against the rest of the league proves since the scheduling is different for each team. The only fair way to compare the teams is to post the records in common games. Even that isn't completely fair since things can change drastically for a team from the time 1 team plays them to the time the next team plays them. For instance, playing the Pats with Brady in week 2 in 2010 (when he was coming off his knee injury) was very different than playing them in week 13 when he had his legs back. I posted this before, but here it is again:

Over the last 3 years, both the Dolphins and Jets have both gone 9-9 in the AFCE.

In 2009, the Jets went 3-3 outside the division in common games while the Dolphins went 2-4. A 1 game difference. The Jets got to play the Colts backups while the Dolphins had to face the starters the whole game.

In 2010 the Jets went 5-3 outside the division in common games while Miami went 3-5. A 2 game difference. If it wasn't for a bad call against Pitt when Roethlisberger fumbled on his way to the endzone, the Dolphins would have been even at 4-4. The Dolphins choked away close games agasint Cle and Det while the Jets won those close games with the help of stupid decisions by those teams.

In 2011, the Jets went 4-4 while the Dolphins went 3-5. A 1 game difference. We all know how the game against the Cowboys went for the Jets and how it went for the Dolphins.

So, the Jets have won 4 more games than the Dolphins versus common opponents in 3 seasons. Considering everything, I think that it very close. Don't confuse being let in the playoffs in 09 and matching up well with NE in a playoff game in 10 as being an Elite team. The Jets have been average the last 3 years and although the Dolphins have been worse, they are not that far behind.

The Jets aren't an elite team but they're better than the Dolphins. Even if it's by a little or a lot...what's the difference? Better is better.

 

[The New Guy]

how is 8 more reg season wins, 4 more postseason wins, 2 more postseason apps not a significant gap?

we play basically the same scheds every year.

in common games:

'09: NE 2x, Buf 2x, Ind, NO, Hou, Atl, TB, Car, Jax, Ten
NYJ: 7-5
Mia: 5-7

'10: NE 2x, Buf 2x, Min, GB, pit, Cin, Bal, Cle, Chi, Det,
NYJ: 8-4
Mia: 4-8

'11: NE 2x, Buf 2x, SD, Den, Oak, KC, NYG, Phi, Dal, Was
NYJ: 6-6
Mia: 5-7

Totals:
NYJ 21-15
Mia 14-22

NYJ 6 games over .500, Miami 8 games under .500

It's not close any way you slice it.

You can't take away the games they played against each other just because the Jets have lost 4 out of 6. Those count. I sliced it the only fair way you can which is to compare the common games.

There is only a 4 games difference over 3 years and many of those games could have gone differently had the Dolphins been afforded the breaks that the Jets got. Playing the Colts with all of their starters in is very different than playing backups who give the game away. The Jets won close games against the Lions and Browns in OT with those teams making stupid mistakes while the Dolphins lost close games to those same teams. The Cowboys gave the Jets the game last year while the Dolphins only lost by 1 point. Not only is a 4 games difference in 3 years not that far apart, it could easily be a 1 game difference or even in common games.

Again, I'm not saying the Dolphins have been as good as the Jets these past 3 years, but the gap is much closer than you think.

The Jets aren't an elite team but they're better than the Dolphins. Even if it's by a little or a lot...what's the difference? Better is better.

I agree they have been better. A little or a lot is the difference from being right or wrong. It is the same as considering the Jets as elite, or merely good / average.

 

[nyjunc]

You can't take away the games they played against each other just because the Jets have lost 4 out of 6. Those count. I sliced it the only fair way you can which is to compare the common games.

There is only a 4 games difference over 3 years and many of those games could have gone differently had the Dolphins been afforded the breaks that the Jets got. Playing the Colts with all of their starters in is very different than playing backups who give the game away. The Jets won close games against the Lions and Browns in OT with those teams making stupid mistakes while the Dolphins lost close games to those same teams. The Cowboys gave the Jets the game last year while the Dolphins only lost by 1 point. Not only is a 4 games difference in 3 years not that far apart, it could easily be a 1 game difference or even in common games.

Again, I'm not saying the Dolphins have been as good as the Jets these past 3 years, but the gap is much closer than you think.




I agree they have been better. A little or a lot is the difference from being right or wrong. It is the same as considering the Jets as elite, or merely good / average.

You asked for common games, that's not a common game. You played the Jets and we played the Dolphins.

The difference is significant over the last 3 years, one team has been an elite team playing for the right to go to Super Bowls while the other hasn't come close to a playoff app. We won 4 playoff games the last 3 years, that's only 2 less than you won in 16 reg season games last year and 3 less than the 2 previous years.