ESPN's McShay has us taking........Mark Ingram

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Are we better off drafting a RB like Ingram or a pass rusher like Von Miller and try to get a RB later?

I think the RB class is going to be deeper than the pass rush class... particularly guys that can rush from a 2-point stance and project as OLB's in 3-4 defenses...

Teams are going to be able get "niche" backs to perform in a duo with another back all the way through the 4th-5th rounds of this draft if all the underclassmen that are expected to declare do so...

On the other hand, you know what you're going to get with a guy like Ingram... you're going to get 1,200 yards and workhorse type back... Hybrid guys like Von Miller are risky projections in the NFL... which is why you don't see them taken in the top 10 very often...

I would almost guarantee that this particular front office would take the pass rusher over the RB in the 1st round, and get the RB later...


Von Miller isn't going to be a fit for every defense.... he's very one-dimensional right now...I don't like what he brings to the table in the run defense department... and his pass rush repertoire is lacking...

...but he'll have slow footed offensive tackles spinning in circles all day long with his incredible first step and speed rush...


For me it depends on exactly what the pass rush (hybrid) class looks like after all the eligible underclassmen either declare, or announce they're returning for their senior seasons... prospects like Justin Houston, Adrian Robinson, etc. make this class a lot deeper if they come out...

Not to mention Seniors who might return to school if they're granted a medical redshirt like Greg Romeus, etc...

 

[hoops]

i'm tired of how deep is the position class etc...i want to go bpa at skill position of need for damn once...if mark ingram is the bpa available when the pick comes up at a skill position i want to take mark ingram...not wait on the position because the class has quality depth

go bpa and get some real talent at skill positions in here for once...

as for miller i don't see where another weakside primarily pass rusher is needed with that high a pick...cam wake has got that locked down and misi with an offseason in an nfl training program imo should be ready to play the strong side every down next year...i hope so at least...if not that pick treads on thin ice

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Miami needs more pass rushers... who's going to do it if Wake gets hurt, or Misi gets hurt... you're back down to nothing again...

Pass rushers are worth their weight in gold in the NFL, the more you have, the more chance you have of winning the superbowl... Conversely, the value of the "workhorse" RB has diminished... I'd like to see Miami get more of a homerun hitter at the RB position, and add explosive pass rushers, as opposed to investing ANOTHER 1st round pick at the RB position... they have THREE 1st rounders tied up just in Ronnie and Ricky...

I agree with the BPA, "playmaker" analogy... which is what pass rushers are...

 

[hoops]

well maybe i just can't validate von miller with a top 20 grade

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I have a hard time finding 20 guys who are better at what they do than Von Miller is at what he does, particularly when you project them to the NFL... Miller can be an incredible weapon defensively for a defensive coordinator who uses him properly..

Like I said, it depends on what all you have to choose from...

I can find more than a handful of RB's to get good use out of.... I haven't found any better pure pass rushers than Von Miller, especially that have experience playing stand-up OLB...

As I said earlier, I don't think Miller is a fit for every 3-4 system... If you're looking for a guy with core strength to set the edge against the run, bull rush, stack-and-shed, etc... Miller isn't your guy...

However, if you're looking for a guy to add to your pass rush and make your attack on defense more versatile, Miller is a guy you have to consider... he's just too talented...

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Miller and Wake would be NASTY.

 

[Pinkboy]

Miami needs more pass rushers... who's going to do it if Wake gets hurt, or Misi gets hurt... you're back down to nothing again...

Pass rushers are worth their weight in gold in the NFL, the more you have, the more chance you have of winning the superbowl... Conversely, the value of the "workhorse" RB has diminished... I'd like to see Miami get more of a homerun hitter at the RB position, and add explosive pass rushers, as opposed to investing ANOTHER 1st round pick at the RB position... they have THREE 1st rounders tied up just in Ronnie and Ricky...

I agree with the BPA, "playmaker" analogy... which is what pass rushers are...

I agree 100% with all of this, I like the way you think.

 

[hoops]

i'm not taking another damn pass rusher with a top 20 pick when i got squat at #2 wr...seam te...rb for the long term future...etc

no way no how...well check that...von miller better look like lawrence taylor on tape otherwise hell no

what a ****ing waste that trade down for koa misi was if i got to burn another damn top draft pick on a freaking pass rusher cause the guy can't get to the qb with any consistency...i knew this kid was gonna have issues getting to the qb but everyone told me oh no he's plenty "explosive" enough...

my ***...what a bunch of bull**** a one trick pony which nfl tackles have figured out...yeah he's good on his feet so damn what we don't ask the solb to carry the man down the field in coverage anyways...

we should have taken jason worilds that mo fo can get to the damn qb...hell we could have spelled him on run downs like we've done koa misi all damn year

quentin moses is even eating into misis snaps of late...

 

[2413fanphins]

I think RB will be a huge need. ricky is gettin up there, but seems to keep on a ticking... who knows what browns status will be with us after this year...

ingram could and maybe even should be a focal point. can you imagine julio jones across from the beast though???? damn....

 

[miamiron]

i'm not taking another damn pass rusher with a top 20 pick when i got squat at #2 wr...seam te...rb for the long term future...etc

no way no how...well check that...von miller better look like lawrence taylor on tape otherwise hell no

what a ****ing waste that trade down for koa misi was if i got to burn another damn top draft pick on a freaking pass rusher cause the guy can't get to the qb with any consistency...i knew this kid was gonna have issues getting to the qb but everyone told me oh no he's plenty "explosive" enough...

my ***...what a bunch of bull**** a one trick pony which nfl tackles have figured out...yeah he's good on his feet so damn what we don't ask the solb to carry the man down the field in coverage anyways...

we should have taken jason worilds that mo fo can get to the damn qb...hell we could have spelled him on run downs like we've done koa misi all damn year

quentin moses is even eating into misis snaps of late...

Koi Misi has 24 tackles and 3.5 sacks
M.Roth has 53 tackles and 3.5 sacks
J.Porter has 39 tackles and 5 sacks and 2 forced fumbles
J.Taylor has 28 tackles and 4 sacks and 2 forced fumbles

At least we get to see Matt Roth again this week

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

i'm not taking another damn pass rusher with a top 20 pick when i got squat at #2 wr...seam te...rb for the long term future...etc

no way no how...well check that...von miller better look like lawrence taylor on tape otherwise hell no

what a ****ing waste that trade down for koa misi was if i got to burn another damn top draft pick on a freaking pass rusher cause the guy can't get to the qb with any consistency...i knew this kid was gonna have issues getting to the qb but everyone told me oh no he's plenty "explosive" enough...

my ***...what a bunch of bull**** a one trick pony which nfl tackles have figured out...yeah he's good on his feet so damn what we don't ask the solb to carry the man down the field in coverage anyways...

we should have taken jason worilds that mo fo can get to the damn qb...hell we could have spelled him on run downs like we've done koa misi all damn year

quentin moses is even eating into misis snaps of late...

Well Miami has a helluva lot more at WR than they do behind Misi and Wake rushing the passer.... not to say that WR isn't a position that isn't worth addressing, but it's just the facts...

Misi is plenty explosive... which is why he's turned in a pretty good rookie season...


If anyone can go bonkers for Jerry Hughes and have a top 15 grade on him, there's no way you can't have a top 20 grade on Von Miller unless you just haven't seen the kid play... He's a more explosive pass rusher, with an even BETTER first step, and more versatile as a stand-up defender and dropping into coverage...

A team like Pittsburgh who already had Lamarr Woodley and James Harrison, and chose to take Jason Worilds.. because you can't have enough good pass rushers... and you certainly can't have enough good linebackers if you're going to run a 3-4 defense... which is why they also used a 1st round pick on Lawrence Timmons.... and also a 4th rounder on Thaddeus Gibson right after "burning" a pick on Worilds...

I guarantee you a team like Pittsburgh, Baltimore, or the Jets, would find a way to use a guy like Von Miller...

It doesn't neccessarily boil down to a Mark Ingram versus Von Miller decision anyway... there's so much more that has to be taken into consideration...

Hell, like I said, I'd take Justin Houston over Von Miller anyway... which means I'd automatically take him over Ingram, because after I get rid of Henning, I'd hopefully be structuring an offense with a new OC that relies more on the passing game to move the football and score points, than having to run it 40+ times a game with that Wildcat nonsense anyway...

I'd look for value at the RB position... and address it more with elite speed and playmaking ability than using a 1st round pick on a guy to hand him the rock 30+ times a game, run him into the ground, and only get 5 years out of that investment...

 

[bootang25]

I think the hiring of whomever is the new Offensive Coordinator will tell us what type of players to scout for the draft process. If it will still be a run-oriented offense, blocking will be put at a premium. If it is a wide-open offense, then look for speed to be the desired quality, combined with mental toughness, and versatility. I do think we are good at finding personnel that is versatile, and that is one thing that helps come draft time.

 

[hoops]

Well Miami has a helluva lot more at WR than they do behind Misi and Wake rushing the passer.... not to say that WR isn't a position that isn't worth addressing, but it's just the facts...

Misi is plenty explosive... which is why he's turned in a pretty good rookie season...


If anyone can go bonkers for Jerry Hughes and have a top 15 grade on him, there's no way you can't have a top 20 grade on Von Miller unless you just haven't seen the kid play... He's a more explosive pass rusher, with an even BETTER first step, and more versatile as a stand-up defender and dropping into coverage...

A team like Pittsburgh who already had Lamarr Woodley and James Harrison, and chose to take Jason Worilds.. because you can't have enough good pass rushers... and you certainly can't have enough good linebackers if you're going to run a 3-4 defense... which is why they also used a 1st round pick on Lawrence Timmons.... and also a 4th rounder on Thaddeus Gibson right after "burning" a pick on Worilds...

I guarantee you a team like Pittsburgh, Baltimore, or the Jets, would find a way to use a guy like Von Miller...

It doesn't neccessarily boil down to a Mark Ingram versus Von Miller decision anyway... there's so much more that has to be taken into consideration...

Hell, like I said, I'd take Justin Houston over Von Miller anyway... which means I'd automatically take him over Ingram, because after I get rid of Henning, I'd hopefully be structuring an offense with a new OC that relies more on the passing game to move the football and score points, than having to run it 40+ times a game with that Wildcat nonsense anyway...

I'd look for value at the RB position... and address it more with elite speed and playmaking ability than using a 1st round pick on a guy to hand him the rock 30+ times a game, run him into the ground, and only get 5 years out of that investment...

yeah slimm but the jerry hughes thing was before we knew how these clowns were gonna use cam wake...which they finally gave him an every down roll...common sense really but outside of nolan i think these guys struggle with common sense running this damn team...and i still believe that when jerry hughes gets his chance he's gonna get to the qb on the regular in the nfl...just a matter of when imo

i've seen von miller a few times this year but nothing in depth so i guess i don't have quite the read you have on him right now and sure i'm sure the jets could use a damn edge pass rusher...they don't have one

the difference between us and the steelers is they have a ton more talent than we do and a franchise qb to boot..they can afford to take more chances...we got to hit...period

i understand the whole ingram 30 times a game would be overworked here but if we just made better use of our picks in the past and actually spent them on another wr a seam threat te etc than we could afford to go get a talent like mark ingram instead of watching him torch us 2 times a season or whatever...and for gods sakes if this oc doesn't go and this whole wildcat mindset period and this penny lovefest doesn't make its way out of the damn lockerroom i'm gonna lose it...lol

as for misi i disagree that he's explosive...he hasn't done squat since week 2...a little early to say he hit the damn wall after 2 weeks...i haven't been keeping track of his snap counts of late but i see an awful lot of other guys playing for him i know that...i'm banking on an nfl offseason making a difference next year...i hope at least...

oh yeah and watching the cards tonight one of andrew luck or ryan mallet is a lock to be a cardinal if they get to them...that team is screaming draft a qb with the top pick...i mean they got a bag of dog**** at the position...we're not gonna sniff either barring a ballsy trade up

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

yeah slimm but the jerry hughes thing was before we knew how these clowns were gonna use cam wake...which they finally gave him an every down roll...common sense really but outside of nolan i think these guys struggle with common sense running this damn team...and i still believe that when jerry hughes gets his chance he's gonna get to the qb on the regular in the nfl...just a matter of when imo

i've seen von miller a few times this year but nothing in depth so i guess i don't have quite the read you have on him right now and sure i'm sure the jets could use a damn edge pass rusher...they don't have one

the difference between us and the steelers is they have a ton more talent than we do and a franchise qb to boot..they can afford to take more chances...we got to hit...period

i understand the whole ingram 30 times a game would be overworked here but if we just made better use of our picks in the past and actually spent them on another wr a seam threat te etc than we could afford to go get a talent like mark ingram instead of watching him torch us 2 times a season or whatever...and for gods sakes if this oc doesn't go and this whole wildcat mindset period and this penny lovefest doesn't make its way out of the damn lockerroom i'm gonna lose it...lol

as for misi i disagree that he's explosive...he hasn't done squat since week 2...a little early to say he hit the damn wall after 2 weeks...i haven't been keeping track of his snap counts of late but i see an awful lot of other guys playing for him i know that...i'm banking on an nfl offseason making a difference next year...i hope at least...

oh yeah and watching the cards tonight one of andrew luck or ryan mallet is a lock to be a cardinal if they get to them...that team is screaming draft a qb with the top pick...i mean they got a bag of dog**** at the position...we're not gonna sniff either barring a ballsy trade up

What I'm saying is that Von Miller is going to get to the quarterback too... right off the bat when one of these teams running a 3-4 takes him and sticks him on the weakside to rush the passer... he makes elite left tackles look flat out silly trying to get out of their stance and kick slide fast enough to combat his speed and quickness... it's a complete mis-match...


The Steelers, Patriots, Ravens, etc... aren't "burning" picks on linebackers every year because they want to take chances... they're doing it because they understand the importance of having a deep, talented, versatile linebacking unit that has to be the backbone of your 3-4 defense...

My view on this has NOTHING to do with Mark Ingram as a prospect or a player... this has to do with competent drafting, and filling team needs via the best route... I'm not convinced taking a RB over an elite pass rusher is the best way to go at the moment for Miami...

I'd take Julio and Marcell Dareus over Mark Ingram too if they were available...

I realize you never liked the Misi pick for some reason... but he's actually one of the few picks I've agreed with over the past decade or so... and still do... Von Miller is flat out more talented and a better athlete than Jerry Hughes was my point...


There's going to be SEVERAL good players available for Miami to choose from in the 1st round that will all address specific needs, or provide significant upgrades... whether it's at CB, WR, TE, OT, OG, C, S, RB, LB, etc... but there's going to positions such as RB, TE, OG, etc.. that Miami is going to be best served addressing beyond the 1st round for various reasons...

Hell, there's no guarantee Mark Ingram even comes off the board in the first 20 picks... I've seen stranger things happen in the draft...

 

[Mr. Magoo]

We'll know a lot more about what we're likely to do on offense after the new OC comes through the door. No legit coach is going to put his name on that dotted line without some pretty explicit assurances about our commitment to find players that allow him to run his scheme. It probably won't have to be as drastic as last year -- four linebackers, a defensive lineman, a corner and a safety versus one offensive player -- but it might. It honestly wouldn't surprise me to see a haul of like two running backs, two interior offensive linemen, three tight ends and a receiver from this class, with a thumper linebacker as the token defensive pick.