Hyde: Draft Winds IV - A thorough breakdown of Cam Newton (w/ video) | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Hyde: Draft Winds IV - A thorough breakdown of Cam Newton (w/ video)

I think everyone wants to compare a prospects to past prospects. People tend to think via analogy. If you're going to compare Newton to anyone, though, it should be a much more athletic version of Big Ben. That said, I don't see anyone who works as a perfect analogy. Slimm posited Culpepper, but Culpepper - to me - always lacked on-field intangibles, and Newton is brimming with said intangibles. Culpepper also lacked Newton's remarkable quickness.

But, I can buy a pre-injury Culpepper + intangibles + extra quickness. Of course, when you add those things, you're no longer talking about Culpepper.
 
Truthfully if you're able to see past skin color, which is more difficult than it sounds, Ryan Mallett sets off way more Jamarcus Russell in my head than Cam Newton. Comparable in a lot of ways.

When I watch Cam speak and I see the things he's been accused of doing, I just feel like I 'get' him, both on the good and on the bad. One thing about Jamarcus Russell that set me off is that I just didn't get him. I look at him, I see him interviewed, I see him speak, and I can't shake the feeling there's something sinister or dishonest behind those eyes. The juxtaposition of Ryan Mallett's words in one venue and his words and attitude in another venue, and reports of the things he's done...that sets off some alarms for me. Plus, Jamarcus has a problem with substance abuse, and Mallett's rumored to also have a problem with substance abuse. Not to mention Mallett and Russell are not at all dissimilar on the football field. They both have arms that are just flat out freak-ish. They both have had their own coaching staffs pretty p-ssed at them. They both can crumble under pressure. If I thought Mallett was as bad as Jamarcus Russell I wouldn't have him in the 1st round, and so I do think Mallett will be more successful. I think he's more accurate. I think he cares about the game more. But nonetheless, those similarities are there between those two a lot more than between Newton and Mallett...the Mallett/Russell comparison is so much more apt than the Newton/Russell comparison, it's not even close.
 
As far as the personal stuff goes, all the "red flags" are for nonviolent stuff that lends its self to immaturity rather than any character flaws. He may or may not have taken a laptop, he's got some speeding tickets. Big deal, kids do that type stuff all the time. Its not like he has any DUIs or any domestic violence or bar brawls under his belt.

As far as all the "sense of entitlement" talk goes...big deal. 90% of NFL players have a sense of entitlement. That's just who they are and how they've been brought up through their lives of high school star, college star, and now millionaire professional athlete. Coaches and owners know how to deal with that.

I think the odds actually are against Newton getting a pay check and then getting drunk running over people with his car or slipping ruffies into some girl's drink in a nightclub. Nothing in his past indicates THAT kind of character flaw. Actually his work habits in college predict exactly the opposite.
 
ckparrothead said:
Truthfully if you're able to see past skin color, which is more difficult than it sounds, Ryan Mallett sets off way more Jamarcus Russell in my head than Cam Newton. Comparable in a lot of ways.

When I watch Cam speak and I see the things he's been accused of doing, I just feel like I 'get' him, both on the good and on the bad. One thing about Jamarcus Russell that set me off is that I just didn't get him. I look at him, I see him interviewed, I see him speak, and I can't shake the feeling there's something sinister or dishonest behind those eyes. The juxtaposition of Ryan Mallett's words in one venue and his words and attitude in another venue, and reports of the things he's done...that sets off some alarms for me. Plus, Jamarcus has a problem with substance abuse, and Mallett's rumored to also have a problem with substance abuse. Not to mention Mallett and Russell are not at all dissimilar on the football field. They both have arms that are just flat out freak-ish. They both have had their own coaching staffs pretty p-ssed at them. They both can crumble under pressure. If I thought Mallett was as bad as Jamarcus Russell I wouldn't have him in the 1st round, and so I do think Mallett will be more successful. I think he's more accurate. I think he cares about the game more. But nonetheless, those similarities are there between those two a lot more than between Newton and Mallett...the Mallett/Russell comparison is so much more apt than the Newton/Russell comparison, it's not even close.
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You are going to get the Russell "drank" comparisons, the "Dumbte" Culpepper comparison, the Vince "dumb" comparisons . . . he fits the profile of a "black skinned" athlete, athletic as hell, that has a history of off the field stuff. People will even put him in the category of a Warren Moon, Randall Cunnigham, Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb and Mike Vick . . . not because of anything to do with the way he plays (well its part of the reason) but because he is black. He could be more close to Ben Rothlisberger and people cringe at that thought because of skin color. I know people want to place a blind eye over racism . . . and even if you make this comparison, I don't believe you hate "another" color from your own, or that you are even meaningly racists . . . but it is just how the society we live in operates.

I think the Big Ben argument is the best one, a more athletic Big Ben . . . . as a prospect. Nobody knows what will happen after he is drafted, he can either work hard, keep focused, take to coaching and become a great NFL QB . . . or he can let the money go to his head, slack off, and become a #1 overall bust like many have become. It can be a scary proposition for teams, and when you hear the "little birdies" whispering about the rumbling with his dad, etc. . . . it doesn't do him any favors and it doesn't do him any justice to seperate himself from those Jamarcus Russell rumors. Facts are facts, and you and Boomer have done a great job of breaking down these "rumors" but I don't think any team is foolish enough to disregard them completely. That would be a mistake.

I'm ready to roll the dice on him, but not if it means giving up a bunch of picks and potential Pro Bowl players . . . nah, I don't think any GM could risk let's say Vontae Davis and 2 first rounders to move up and draft Newton. Luck, yea . . . because he is pretty spotless, but the risk factor is greater with Newton, and you have to look at the worst case scenario and what it would do to this team long term.

We have a solid foundation, we have depth in many positions . . . our QB is coming. This is not the time to panic.
 
Well let me put it to you this way. Let's say you're on the phone with the Buffalo Bills and they want Cam Newton at #3 overall but despite normal rules about trading within the division, they decide that if we'd give them Cam Wake and the #15 pick, then we can have him. What do you do?
 
ckparrothead said:
Well let me put it to you this way. Let's say you're on the phone with the Buffalo Bills and they want Cam Newton at #3 overall but despite normal rules about trading within the division, they decide that if we'd give them Cam Wake and the #15 pick, then we can have him. What do you do?
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you would have to go there wouldn't you ck...lol god...i cringe over losing cam wake...
 
I would do it, personally. Yes, you give them Cam Wake and he would terrorize our passers for years, but think about this...when Cam Wake met Josh Freeman, Josh Freeman won that battle. His team didn't win the war but Freeman won versus Wake. Wake had like 9 pressures in that game and a sack, but Freeman's athleticism and pocket feel, which are similar to Newton's, ensured that those pressures were only pressures, not sacks and not even hit. Wake had to walk out of that game as frustrated as Bruce Smith used to be when he faced Dan Marino.

The passer is by far the more important piece of the puzzle. In the scenario I laid out, you would not only be acquiring Newton, you'd be directly keeping him away from a division opponent.
 
for andrew luck (cause i think he's can't miss...i honestly think he's peyton manning with legs) i part with wake and #15...for cam newton i have to think really hard about it...
 
cam wake to me minimum is worth a mid level 1st and a 3rd...minimum...this only a 1st stuff is rediculous to me...the jets would part with a 1st and a 3rd in a second to get cam wake...that would be the final piece that d lacks...an edge pass rushing force
 
ckparrothead said:
Well let me put it to you this way. Let's say you're on the phone with the Buffalo Bills and they want Cam Newton at #3 overall but despite normal rules about trading within the division, they decide that if we'd give them Cam Wake and the #15 pick, then we can have him. What do you do?
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If after the combine, interviews, full extensive background (even more extensive than now), pro day's, etc. I came away feeling he is the QB I believe that can lead my franchise to a Super Bowl within the next 5 years, and that offer were to present itself, . . . then I definitely make that trade and we can be one of those teams that are high fiving on the ESPN camera in the war room.

We got Wake for nothing, and he is less than a year from 30 . . . it would definitely suck, but pass rushers are easier to find than franchise QB's, and we would have drafted Newton to be a franchise QB. No brainer actually. Wake is going to sack the **** out of Newton twice a year because of us sending him to Toronto . . . I mean Buffalo . . . but it would be worth it.
 
Great work guys as always. I'm not convinced he'll go in the top 5 myself, mostly because of the one year starter thing, but also some of those teams are not desperate for QB help.
 
vernon carey wouldn't even get out of his stance before wake was by him and beelining to newton...lol run for your life cam
 
Nobody is seperating fact from fiction, or dispelling any of the "myths" surrounding Cam Newton and/or Cecil Newton. Nobody (journalists, etc.) even know what the facts are yet...

The FBI, FDIC, NCAA, SEC, Mike Slive, etc... are all in the process of determining what the FACTS are... and the people that do know what the facts are, cannot speak.

Documents have been sealed, and trials linked to this entire fiasco are scheduled to begin in a few months... Team Newton will end up being casualties after the right people sing like a canary in front of a judge, but right now there's bigger fish to fry...

http://www.ibleedcrimsonred.com/p/cam-newton-investigation-timeline.html
 
hooshoops said:
for andrew luck (cause i think he's can't miss...i honestly think he's peyton manning with legs) i part with wake and #15...for cam newton i have to think really hard about it...
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I hear ya. Same for me. But the added prospect of keeping Newton away from the Bills would tip me over I think.
 
Bravo CK and Boomer!! I am pretty much fully on board the Cam Newton bandwagon!!! Great work you guys!
 
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