Ireland's approval rating

[phintim]

That's simply not true. Let's compare the best players drafted by Shula to the best players drafted/acquired by Ireland/Parcells/whatever--

Shula (we'll start in the late 80s and we won't even count Marino, Offerdahl, or Dwight Stephenson): Louis Oliver, Bryan Cox, Richmond Webb, Troy Vincent, OJ McDuffie, Tim Bowens.

What's Ireland's list: Jake Long and Cameron Wake. Who else?

JJ also drafted better than Ireland, on defense (on offense he was definitely as ineffective as the current regime). And both Shula and JJ were drafting from a much worse position than Ireland who was fortunate enough to have the #1 overall pick. And if you count free agent pick-ups, Shula also acquired Keith Byars, Keith Jackson, and Irving Fryar who outshine any free agents Ireland has brought in.

Ireland has drafted better than Wanny, Saban, and Cameron, but that's hardly a mark of distinction. Rather it explains why this team has been a regular doormat since 2003.

Your covering a lot of ground / years with those Shula picks and the best ones outside Tim Bowens were top 10 picks and all but Cox were 1st round picks. Shula also had his rick grafs, Millers, Greene, kummerrow, john bosa, sammy smith duds in the first 2 rounds to name a few. Ireland has Pouncy who is looking good, Starks , Bess, Carpenter and before it is over I am throwing in Vonte Davis. JJ picks like Taylor did not shine until JJ was gone. JJ had 4 studs Taylor, Thomas, Madison and Surtain

 

[dlockz]

Your covering a lot of ground / years with those Shula picks and the best ones outside Tim Bowens were top 10 picks and all but Cox were 1st round picks. Shula also had his rick grafs, Millers, Greene, kummerrow, john bosa, sammy smith duds in the first 2 rounds to name a few. Pouncy is looking good, Starks , Bess, Carpenter and before it is over I am throwing in Vonte Davis. JJ picks like Taylor did not shine until JJ was gone. JJ had 4 Taylor, Thomas, Madison and Surtain

Shula also had only 2 losing seasons in three decades so you can forgive his bad drafts while Ireland as gm has one winning season in 4

 

[phintim]

Shula also had only 2 losing seasons in three decades so you can forgive his bad drafts while Ireland as gm has one winning season in 4

Your absolutely right dlockz and a good coach and QB can make a GM look better than they really are. That is why until this year I have had a hard time agreeing with throwing Ireland under the bus. Ireland did not hire Tony Sporano but he has hired Philbin. So even if I were disagree with you on his draft picks for example if the coach that Ireland chose is a dud then Ireland has failed. Honestly from what I have seen on the field so far which is a poor product I blame a part of that on the coaching. We have flat been getting blown out. I am keeping the door cracked for the time being but so far this staff has walked, quacked and swam like a duck outside of the holdovers Rizi ST, and Casey DL. It is only fair to give them more time but I am hoping more than believing. The Vonte D trade was a real downer for me too. Just what were they thinking Ireland and Philbin with their jobs on the line?

 

[LandShark13]

Shula also had only 2 losing seasons in three decades so you can forgive his bad drafts while Ireland as gm has one winning season in 4

^^ This

Comparing anything in the Shula years to what we have had since is a Joke.

• Shula years we made the Playoffs 15 times. Post Shula 6.
• Shula years we Won the AFC East 11 times. Post Shula one 1.
• Shula years we were AFC conference champions 5 times. Post Shula ZERO.
• Shula Years .647 Winning Pct. Post Shula .506.
  • Breaking it down to wins and losses
    • 26 Years of Shula we averaged almost 10.5 Wins a season! Post Shula a little over 8.
• Shula Years 2 x Superbowl Champions. Post Shula... Well you know.

So please don't try and justify ANYTHING we have done since he was forced to step aside. Other than a handful of seasons post Shula we have been nothing but a Punchline.

 

[biggrouper]

OOOPs... I voted yes... Im tired and I read Philbin and his direction... and I think Philbin is a good coach... then after I saw that I voted Yes for Ireland I puked a little in my mouth... sorry...

 

[SWS84]

Wait what? One game? The guy has been here for years. So yes, this is exactly the type of irrational justification I was talking about. Let me guess. If we go 2-14 this year and everyone's fired except Ireland and if we start 0-1 next year you can say "buts it's only one game, change takes time". Because that's essentially what u are doing now. So thank you for making my point because your post points to the exact type of irrational perspective I was talking about

Ok, let's take a look back when Eric Steinbach wanted to make a come back. On Hard Knocks, it showed him working out, in the bubble, for the Dolphins. Who was in the bubble watching and evaluating him? Was it just Ireland? No, it was Philbin and OL coach Turner. When the decision was made to sign him, was it just Ireland or did Philbin and Turner have major input? Obviously, Philbin and Turner gave their approval and said, sign him. The point is, Ireland doesn't live and make decisions in a vacuum. I am pretty sure that the decisions made within the football side of the organization are collaberative in nature and most always involve Philbin and the position coach. So when a guy doesn't pan out, the blame doesn't just fall on Ireland, but on the coaches, too. Ross had his chance to get rid of Ireland and start fresh, but since he didn't it is only prudent to give the new coaching staff and Ireland time to gel. Believe me, I bleed aqua and orange like most everyone else here. I can't remember the last time I missed watching a game or the draft. Ross gave Ireland a 2nd chance and I am willing to give him one, too. That said, I will be watching him very closely. If I don't see progress and steady growth from our team this year, then as the Queen of Hearts would say, "Off with his head!".

 

[ATL_PHIN_FAN]

I don't know much about the inner workings of the gm position but would it be fair to say that the scouts do most of the leg work on the undrafted guys and Ireland concentrates more on the players expected to go in the top 5 or 6 rounds?

Yes, but Ireland hires and fires the scouts. Technically, it's his scout team out there for us. Yes, some of our scouts have been with us for a long time. But it's Ireland's judgement that decides what scouts do continue to work for the organization and to evaluate the merit of any acorns they find.

 

[ATL_PHIN_FAN]

Shula also had only 2 losing seasons in three decades so you can forgive his bad drafts while Ireland as gm has one winning season in 4

I'm sorry, but I DON'T forgive his bad drafts, nor his decisions to keep certain coaches (Olivadotty) on for years and years of underachievement. I personally suffered a lot of frustration during those years. Watching our team rack up tons of points and wins, year after year, but unable to make it to the super bowl but once with arguably the best QB to ever play the game. We could never manage a running game, nor a decent defense from the mid 80's to Shula's retirement.

Those factors were a league-wide embarrassment to us. They totally waisted Marino's 10 year prime. Because of them, the Bills dominated our division for years.

I don't know what happened to Shula that caused him to allow these things to happen (I knew far less of the details of my team then than I do now), but it's those years of frustration, along with the previous years of stellar success, that have shaped my perspective as to what the Dolphins need to do to build a perennial champion now.

One thing I know we shouldn't do now, given what's occurred over the past decade, is hit the reset button again. Not now. We need to see where Ireland can take us working with Philbin. Personally, I would have dumped Ireland along with Sporano, but Ross didn't. We can't fire Ross for not doing that. Ross must have seen positive things in what Ireland was doing. He also must believe Ireland and Philbin might be a good team working together.

Therefore, I think it's best for us to wait and see. I know you are all frustrated, but believe me, your gonna want this team finished with SOMEONE's VISION sooner, rather than later. I also think it is being built with sound principals of balance, which were missing during the Marino years.

So, for now I am willing to wait and see.

 

[phintim]

Like I said a good coach and QB can make a GM look pretty good. Shula was proof of that and IMO so is Bill B and Tom Brady. Lets hope Ryan T and Philbin can do the same. Currently as a football fan I am not banking on it but as a phin fan I am hoping for it. We shall see soon. This team reminds me of the one year with Cam Cameron. I just noticed that Bush touched the ball 20 out of the 55 snaps last week. Well Ronnie Brown was carrying that team on his back until week four got hurt and then it was over. Our defensive backfield is a shambles IMO with Vonte Davis ability to shut down one side of the field. We have Sean Smith who is OK back there but should probably be playing safty, Marshall who probably be at safty also, Carrol has shown nothing yet and Wilson just moved from safty back to corner. Rashad Jones is really the only improvement we have from last year. Soo if our offense cannot get the job done basically playing a hurry up offense based on passing the ball and our defensive backfield cannot stop the pass then the pooch is looking a bit like it will get Scre??ed this year. The thing we had going for us when Cameron was here was the offense was based on run first then pass giving the defense some help. The dynamics with this staff of having a WCO with weak recievers and less emphasis on the running game and a defensive backfield who's best players is currently Sean Smith is really sitting this team up for failure. IMO Hope not.

 

[ATL_PHIN_FAN]

Like I said a good coach and QB can make a GM look pretty good. Shula was proof of that and IMO so is Bill B and Tom Brady. Lets hope Ryan T and Philbin can do the same. Currently as a football fan I am not banking on it but as a phin fan I am hoping for it. We shall see soon. This team reminds me of the one year with Cam Cameron. I just noticed that Bush touched the ball 20 out of the 55 snaps last week. Well Ronnie Brown was carrying that team on his back until week four got hurt and then it was over. Our defensive backfield is a shambles IMO with Vonte Davis ability to shut down one side of the field. We have Sean Smith who is OK back there but should probably be playing safty, Marshall who probably be at safty also, Carrol has shown nothing yet and Wilson just moved from safty back to corner. Rashad Jones is really the only improvement we have from last year. Soo if our offense cannot get the job done basically playing a hurry up offense based on passing the ball and our defensive backfield cannot stop the pass then the pooch is looking a bit like it will get Scre??ed this year. The thing we had going for us when Cameron was here was the offense was based on run first then pass giving the defense some help. The dynamics with this staff of having a WCO with weak recievers and less emphasis on the running game and a defensive backfield who's best players is currently Sean Smith is really sitting this team up for failure. IMO Hope not.

You make good points. I share virtually all of your hopes and fears. I'm hoping, rather than knowing, that Philbin/Ireland know things about their own capabilities, and their vision for this team, that we still don't. At this time, my faith has yet to be seriously shaken, since I believe what happened with the batted balls won't happen again. Not like that.

Because of that disastrous few minutes, we've yet to see a complete game by our offense or defense. By that, I mean a game where we are not suddenly down by 3 touchdowns in the space of 2 minutes. That collection of incidents forced us to alter our game plan so signifigantly, there's just no way to evaluate the team properly. We still don't know how they will play a complete game when the situation is closer to normal throughout. So, I'm still in "wait and see" mode.

 

[Canadianfishfan]

2009 was the first year Ross had complete control. The records for those years 7-9, 7-9, and 6-10. hair over 6 wins a season. Wayne left him with a team that went 11-5. Not saying Wayne is perfect or even an ideal owner. In fact i'm not a fan of his at all really since he forced Shula out the door. But Ross needs to shoulder a lot of the blame that's going around.

Ross was handicapped into keeping Parcells. It was part of the deal. Wayne left him with a team that went 1-15... or am I missing something? We were always winning until Waybe bought the team and cleaned house.

He paid 17mil to clear out everyone contracts. We've been in decline ever since.

 

[Lilseb93]

lol. eveyrone was stomping on irelands dick before the draft and after the marshall trade. then after the draft everyone was happy with the draft, and looking forward to the season. then what changed? a vontae trade and 4 preseason losses and one regular season loss. now you guys are back to stomping on ireland's dick. some people are just as predictable as the dolphins regular season record.

No I gave the draft a chance because Philbin was involved in it, but this offseason was terrible and it pissed a lot of fans off. I don't change my opinion of people that quickly. I've wanted him fired every year. People can keep defending Ireland all they want, but the records reflect his work.

 

[LandShark13]

Ross was handicapped into keeping Parcells. It was part of the deal. Wayne left him with a team that went 1-15... or am I missing something? We were always winning until Waybe bought the team and cleaned house.

He paid 17mil to clear out everyone contracts. We've been in decline ever since.

You're missing a few things actually. First Wayne s last year as an owner 2008 we were 11-5 not 1-15. Secondly Ross wasn't locked into keeping Parcels and Parcels wasn't locked into staying. IMHO it was the moves that Ross made when when he first took over (selling off small percentages of the team to bring in star's, Orange carpet fiasco, ect) basically turning the Phins into a circus, that led to Parcels stepping back. Remember he stepped back long before he stepped away. So far I cant think of a single thing Ross has done that would lead me to believe he knows what hes doing.

Note:In Fact when Ross took over he sat down with Bill and Convinced him to stay as Bill could of just walked away and still got paid.

 

[phintim]

No I gave the draft a chance because Philbin was involved in it, but this offseason was terrible and it pissed a lot of fans off. I don't change my opinion of people that quickly. I've wanted him fired every year. People can keep defending Ireland all they want, but the records reflect his work.

Well while I would not have agreed with you about Ireland in the past based on what I believe could have been variables out of his control these past 2-3 years have changed that situation. The players and coaches Ireland accumulated these past 3 years that represent what we presently march out on the field are not up to the job IMO. I just do not see Philbin and his staff as an improvement so far. I am not buying it all on talent either because we won or played much better last year with much of this same talent. Yes I wll buy the arugument a little while longer to give Philbin a chance. Still if we stay uncompetitive as we have been in the games so far I am not willing to give this staff past this year.

 

[Roman529]

I wasn't the biggest fan of Rick Spielman either, but even Spielman seemed to bring in some talent and make some good decisions. What has Ireland done to improve us at Wide Receiver, and give Tannehill some targets? NOTHING. He sent Marshall on his way and did nothing. Maybe he thinks stockpiling picks is the answer, but when you cannot draft talented players, all we are doing as a team is spinning our wheels. We are stuck in mediocrity but we always do enough to win about 4 to 6 games which means we cannot land a top QB. Same old story every year. If Ross doesn't see that Ireland is a big part of the problem, than we need a new owner as well.