Jake Long... Don't worry

[PerfectTeam]

even though we already have 2 OLB's with multiple pro-bowls? we all know that JT and JP only have a couple years left, but they will be good enough this year. if we pick Chris Long, how much impact can he really make behind those two? when you look at what we have at OT right now, we really need IMMEDIATE impact. LT is much more of a premium position than OLB on any team. waiting under the 2nd round for a left tackle is a risky move because we could be looking at the 7th best by then.

I agree that LT is a pretty premium position, fact of the matter is we already have a good one in vernon carey. your assuming that jake long is going to come in and be better than carey, but based on what? again JT and JP are not that much longer for this team. their skills are declining and who knows how much further they could decline. we need a new face for this defense and chris long is that cornerstone player.

 

[Pinkboy]

I agree that LT is a pretty premium position, fact of the matter is we already have a good one in vernon carey.

Ok now this is like the 5th time I've seen you say this and I have to step in now..

Carey is an "adequate" LT, he is not ideal.. One of the biggest misconceptions on this board is a few people saying we will be good with Carey at LT.. I'm sorry, but I just don't see it.

And here's why.. Our offense was was tailored for the short passing game because of our O-line just wasn't good.. This was by design.. Routes were shortened. Ronnie is an above average pass protecter (when he played) so he helped Carey quite a bit.. And our QBs rarely got the chance to drop back, set and throw comfortably..

When did you see 7 step drops from our QB's waiting for Ginn to get open deep for the long bomb? You didn't, it was very rare... You saw our burner taking quick hitches and quick 7 yard out passes.. This is because our coaches didn't have faith in the QB's blindside. And Carey was the main cog on that left side.

So Carey giving up only 3.5 sacks last year is very misleading.. Carey gave up quite bit of hurries.. Hurries that led to our QB fumbling the ball because of pressure.. Hurries that led to our QB's throwing the ball away losing downs.. Hurries that led to INT's , turnovers and overall bad or negative plays for the offense,. This in turn of course hurt our defense because they were on the field more than they should have been,,

After the final game of the regular season this past year, I saw someone put up an alarming stat on another message board. And it listed the most hurries Left Tackles gave up last season.. And Carey was in the top 10 for most hurries against a LT.. He was like 8th.. So he was 8th worst out of 32 NFL teams in that department.. And he was the worst in the AFC EAST for that stat.... And Carey gave up those hurries with our coaching staff needing less protection time because of our short quick passing game !!.. I am going to try to find that link again because I would love to show the proof of that here for all of my finheaven brethren to see...

So in essence, if we had an offense that had a normal passing attack, in other words plenty of deep drop backs, Carey would have had alot more sacks against than it showed.. It's just that the offense was curtailed to negate his shortcomings (as well as the shortcomings of the entire O-line in general.). And you cannot be a winning football team when your playbook is limited like that.

Basically, alot of what you say is misleading when it comes to Carey.. When you actually study him, and not just look at a number, but actually see "why" things happen, then you can see the dire need for OT's on our team..

And let me ask you this, what if Carey gets injured? What happens if goes down next year like Ronnie Brown, Zach Thomas, Yeremiah Bell and a plethora of other dolphins that have gone down last year (and in years past) due to injury ?? What will you do then?? Who will you put at LT? A lower round rookie from this draft? Or Julius Wilson?? So You see, it's not as easy as just saying Vernon Carey is fine at LT.. There are alot of variables here that are being overlooked.

Jake Long is without question the best pick Miami can make.. For many many reasons.. Carey is just a much better RT so we immediately improve 2 positions by drafting Jake the Snake Long.. Not to mention we really help the development of our best young players who are on the offensive side of the ball in Ginn, Beck, R Brown, L Booker, Satele, Carey etc.. We help their development by giving them the much needed help they need to thrive.. Instead of hurting and impeding their development (and hurting their fragile confidence at that young age) by going for stop gaps and projects on the O-line.

Furthermore, and last but not least, we help the defense by drafting Jake Long.. Having a very good O-line immediately means more long drives, more success for the offense.. Meaning the defense is on the field less.. Drafting Jake Long is a win-win-win situation for the entire team.

Moreover, having a much improved special teams next year, combined with a playmaker like Ginn putting us in good field position, coupled with an offense that can move the ball via a strong O-line, keeping our D off the field, is a terrific combination to start a rebuilding team.. Those are some really REALLY nice pieces there going forward..

 

[Kdawg954]

I agree that LT is a pretty premium position, fact of the matter is we already have a good one in vernon carey. your assuming that jake long is going to come in and be better than carey, but based on what? again JT and JP are not that much longer for this team. their skills are declining and who knows how much further they could decline. we need a new face for this defense and chris long is that cornerstone player.

U keep saying JT and JP are not long for the team . . . so lets say just 2 years . . . we will probably have signed Chris Long to a 5 year deal . . . and it will be year 3 until he starts at the position we drafted him for.

Jake Long easily starts at LT or RT from year one . . . when u are paying this much money to a guy . . he better be able to help the team out immediately . . . not saying Chris wont, but Jake clearly helps more.

Understand, I am an advocate of drafting BPA . . . but there is very little difference between the 2, and when u have it like that, u gotta go need . . . and CLEARLY the OT position is a better fit, whether its on the right side or the left side. U say u can't draft RT #1, u cant draft a 3-4 OLB #1 either . . . only difference is, I and many other feel Long is a LT, its you and these gullable fans who turn every nitpick of Jake Long from an analyst into a reason to compare him to a Pro Bowl LT and reason not to draft him . . . when most of those LT had similar questions comming into the league. Funny thing is, its the best of Both Worlds with Jake . . . he had a FANTASTIC combine . . . but also had the BEST season of any tackle in college. What more does the guy have to prove? Is him giving up his only sack as a LT to Vernon Gholston that troubling for people? Ask Harvey and Avril about Jake's pass protection.

 

[jlfin]

i dont think jake long is the pick. he just isnt an elite LT more like a very good one. RT is where he could probably reach pro bowl status but not on the left side where he will be a decent starter but no better than vernon carey who did very well on left side for us last year. you just dont spend the number one pick on a RT. he isnt as nimble as some of the other higher rated OTs as years past and you can quote numbers from the combine all you want, but looking at the game film, he just doesnt have elite LT skills. his skill set is better served on the right side to mask his average feet and quickness.

J Long isn't my 1st choice (C Long is) but I wouldn't mind him. I think he will be better than 90% of the LT's in the NFL now. Including pro bowler Matt Light. I keep bringing up Light's name in my posts because I can't for the life of me figure out how he got into the pro bowl. He is a blue collar guy who does nothing special. JT has eaten him alive and the NYG exposed he and his other overrated linemates for what they are. A solid, but unspectacular group.

 

[PerfectTeam]

Ok now this is like the 5th time I've seen you say this and I have to step in now..

Carey is an "adequate" LT, he is not ideal.. One of the biggest misconceptions on this board is a few people saying we will be good with Carey at LT.. I'm sorry, but I just don't see it.

And here's why.. Our offense was was tailored for the short passing game because of our O-line just wasn't good.. This was by design.. Routes were shortened. Ronnie is an above average pass protecter (when he played) so he helped Carey quite a bit.. And our QBs rarely got the chance to drop back, set and throw comfortably..

When did you see 7 step drops from our QB's waiting for Ginn to get open deep for the long bomb? You didn't, it was very rare... You saw our burner taking quick hitches and quick 7 yard out passes.. This is because our coaches didn't have faith in the QB's blindside. And Carey was the main cog on that left side.

So Carey giving up only 3.5 sacks last year is very misleading.. Carey gave up quite bit of hurries.. Hurries that led to our QB fumbling the ball because of pressure.. Hurries that led to our QB's throwing the ball away losing downs.. Hurries that led to INT's , turnovers and overall bad or negative plays for the offense,. This in turn of course hurt our defense because they were on the field more than they should have been,,

After the final game of the regular season this past year, I saw someone put up an alarming stat on another message board. And it listed the most hurries Left Tackles gave up last season.. And Carey was in the top 10 for most hurries against a LT.. He was like 8th.. So he was 8th worst out of 32 NFL teams in that department.. And he was the worst in the AFC EAST for that stat.... And Carey gave up those hurries with our coaching staff needing less protection time because of our short quick passing game !!.. I am going to try to find that link again because I would love to show the proof of that here for all of my finheaven brethren to see...

So in essence, if we had an offense that had a normal passing attack, in other words plenty of deep drop backs, Carey would have had alot more sacks against than it showed.. It's just that the offense was curtailed to negate his shortcomings (as well as the shortcomings of the entire O-line in general.). And you cannot be a winning football team when your playbook is limited like that.

Basically, alot of what you say is misleading when it comes to Carey.. When you actually study him, and not just look at a number, but actually see "why" things happen, then you can see the dire need for OT's on our team..

And let me ask you this, what if Carey gets injured? What happens if goes down next year like Ronnie Brown, Zach Thomas, Yeremiah Bell and a plethora of other dolphins that have gone down last year (and in years past) due to injury ?? What will you do then?? Who will you put at LT? A lower round rookie from this draft? Or Julius Wilson?? So You see, it's not as easy as just saying Vernon Carey is fine at LT.. There are alot of variables here that are being overlooked.

Jake Long is without question the best pick Miami can make.. For many many reasons.. Carey is just a much better RT so we immediately improve 2 positions by drafting Jake the Snake Long.. Not to mention we really help the development of our best young players who are on the offensive side of the ball in Ginn, Beck, R Brown, L Booker, Satele, Carey etc.. We help their development by giving them the much needed help they need to thrive.. Instead of hurting and impeding their development (and hurting their fragile confidence at that young age) by going for stop gaps and projects on the O-line.

Furthermore, and last but not least, we help the defense by drafting Jake Long.. Having a very good O-line immediately means more long drives, more success for the offense.. Meaning the defense is on the field less.. Drafting Jake Long is a win-win-win situation for the entire team.

Moreover, having a much improved special teams next year, combined with a playmaker like Ginn putting us in good field position, coupled with an offense that can move the ball via a strong O-line, keeping our D off the field, is a terrific combination to start a rebuilding team.. Those are some really REALLY nice pieces there going forward..

well it seems to me that your laboring under the assumption that Jake Long immediately solves our LT problems. Tell me what he has done at the next level to dispel the notion that he can play LT since alot of people believe the left side isnt the best fit for him.

please provide this link about carey because I would love to take a look at it because this is the first ive heard of it. if proved then i will re think my stance. also you should take into account that alot of players quit on beck when he came in so it made for alot of those hurries, carey being one of the culprits i believe.

you also claim, well what about the injury to vernon carey? ok so we draft jake long and then he gets injured so vernon has to step in and we are back to square one? whats your point? so fine no carey is back on the left side and we have a julius wilson or someone step in and play RT. thats flawed logic. then by your thinking we should draft mcfadden because ronnie could get hurt and so could ricky and booker.

im not saying that jake long isnt a good OT. he just isnt worth the number one overall pick. only elite LTs are like boselli, ogden pace and jones. long is no where near that. most people place him below joe thomas and above levi brown. we trade back into that 4 or 5 spot, then he would be easier to swallow as a pick.

 

[PerfectTeam]

J Long isn't my 1st choice (C Long is) but I wouldn't mind him. I think he will be better than 90% of the LT's in the NFL now. Including pro bowler Matt Light. I keep bringing up Light's name in my posts because I can't for the life of me figure out how he got into the pro bowl. He is a blue collar guy who does nothing special. JT has eaten him alive and the NYG exposed he and his other overrated linemates for what they are. A solid, but unspectacular group.

having a perfect regular season will do that for guys. it happens every year. a guy that got in that shouldnt of based on name or team popularity.

 

[PerfectTeam]

U keep saying JT and JP are not long for the team . . . so lets say just 2 years . . . we will probably have signed Chris Long to a 5 year deal . . . and it will be year 3 until he starts at the position we drafted him for.

Jake Long easily starts at LT or RT from year one . . . when u are paying this much money to a guy . . he better be able to help the team out immediately . . . not saying Chris wont, but Jake clearly helps more.

Understand, I am an advocate of drafting BPA . . . but there is very little difference between the 2, and when u have it like that, u gotta go need . . . and CLEARLY the OT position is a better fit, whether its on the right side or the left side. U say u can't draft RT #1, u cant draft a 3-4 OLB #1 either . . . only difference is, I and many other feel Long is a LT, its you and these gullable fans who turn every nitpick of Jake Long from an analyst into a reason to compare him to a Pro Bowl LT and reason not to draft him . . . when most of those LT had similar questions comming into the league. Funny thing is, its the best of Both Worlds with Jake . . . he had a FANTASTIC combine . . . but also had the BEST season of any tackle in college. What more does the guy have to prove? Is him giving up his only sack as a LT to Vernon Gholston that troubling for people? Ask Harvey and Avril about Jake's pass protection.

I keep asking, with all the question marks people see on film about jake long and being able to translate to the left side in the pros, what makes you so absolutely sure he will be able to? you can quote combine stats and how many sacks he gave up and this and that, but watch the film. the guy lacks the lateral agility and the foot quickness to play LT in the pros. he has trouble with an outside speed rush then a quick inside move. it gives him fits. jake long probably could be a decent LT in the pros but not worth the 30 million in guarantees and first overall pick.

 

[3rdandinches]

I keep asking, with all the question marks people see on film about jake long and being able to translate to the left side in the pros, what makes you so absolutely sure he will be able to? you can quote combine stats and how many sacks he gave up and this and that, but watch the film. the guy lacks the lateral agility and the foot quickness to play LT in the pros. he has trouble with an outside speed rush then a quick inside move. it gives him fits. jake long probably could be a decent LT in the pros but not worth the 30 million in guarantees and first overall pick.

If V.Gholston and D.Harvey are considered top rush ends in the NFL than why isn't J.Long a top LT who stopped these two on a regular basis, it doesn't work in favour of one and not the other.
J.Long's strength can make up for that pathetic excuse that he's not fast enough by shoving guys off balance to get his feet back into position to block. Also him being a dominant run blocker and we'll be a dominant run team will slow down the pass rush aswell, creating excellent playaction to further slow down the rush, even though he'll prove that not to be necessary.
Having only been beaten in the 40 by J.Thomas some how means he doesn't have lateral agility and foot quickness, why do they do the other shuttles and cone drills for?

 

[Phinja]

I keep asking, with all the question marks people see on film about jake long and being able to translate to the left side in the pros, what makes you so absolutely sure he will be able to? you can quote combine stats and how many sacks he gave up and this and that, but watch the film. the guy lacks the lateral agility and the foot quickness to play LT in the pros. he has trouble with an outside speed rush then a quick inside move. it gives him fits. jake long probably could be a decent LT in the pros but not worth the 30 million in guarantees and first overall pick.

Who is a LOT of people? The only person I have seen that has said Long would be better suited on the right side is Mayock, and that guy is a freaking idiot.


There is never a way to be ABSOLUTELY sure about a draft prospect's ability to translate to the pros. The only real thing to go on is a prospects measurables, and J.Long has that hands down. Eventualy people are going to have to stop marginalizing every prospects talent in an effort to promot whom they feel should be the pick.


Do YOU really have evidence of why Long should play on the right side? Did you watch his games and see some phantom flaw in his game? Or are you just regurgitating what you've read somewhere else?

 

[rent this space]

I keep asking, with all the question marks people see on film about jake long and being able to translate to the left side in the pros, what makes you so absolutely sure he will be able to? you can quote combine stats and how many sacks he gave up and this and that, but watch the film. the guy lacks the lateral agility and the foot quickness to play LT in the pros. he has trouble with an outside speed rush then a quick inside move. it gives him fits. jake long probably could be a decent LT in the pros but not worth the 30 million in guarantees and first overall pick.

show me a prospect with no question marks. he doesn't exist. I watch the film and see a guy dominating his competition. his footspeed has been documented to be better than Joe Thomas at this stage, so you can call him slow all you want but the facts say otherwise. how can you say he "has trouble" with an outside speed rush when it almost never worked on him? Jake Long faced an outside speed rush dozens of times last year and only one guy beat him one time. when he gives up only one sack, you have to say no one gave him fits, period.

 

[Pinkboy]

Who is a LOT of people? The only person I have seen that has said Long would be better suited on the right side is Mayock, and that guy is a freaking idiot.

Do YOU really have evidence of why Long should play on the right side? Did you watch his games and see some phantom flaw in his game? Or are you just regurgitating what you've read somewhere else?

LOL.. Exactly.

Forget what nitwits like Mayock say, what about NFL coaches? There have been NFL coaches who have stated that Jake Long will be a great left tackle in the NFL.. Did we all of a sudden forget who the most important opinions are?

These coaches didn't go by just one play, but they saw Jake Long's entire body of work, including shutting down many speed rushers like Cliff Avril (who runs a 4.5 forty time- that's elite NFL speed for that position), and they saw Long shutting down Anthony Spencer, Adam Carriker and Derrick Harvey to name a few (all 1st round picks, or projected to be first round picks-- Avril as a 2nd).. The coaches saw Long shutting down Gholston with the exception of one play.. Gholston only had one solo tackle in that game vs Michigan..

And the list goes on and on.. Jake Long will be a very good to excellent left tackle in the NFL.. If you people are so concerned about one play, pop in the Wisconsin vs Auburn game where Joe Thomas got abused for sacks, and got stuffed on run plays all day long when he went one on one with Auburn's defensive end. Jake Long never had a total bad game like Thomas had there.

 

[sceeto]

every analyst I have heard has said that Thomas has much better feet and balance than Long, there is no combine drill to measure that

Pat Kirwan said that Long hit the ground quite a bit while Thomas was never on the ground

I prefer to believe the experts and not those fans with agendas. I wish there were more Dolphin agenda fans here. all I see is Ryan-agenda, CLong-agenda, JLong-agenda and Gholston-agenda fans.

I am glad that our FO shares the same agenda as I have.

we may end up taking Jake Long, but don't expect him to be a franchise LT

Kirwan is a jet loving tool! He has no clue of what he's talking about.

 

[PerfectTeam]

Who is a LOT of people? The only person I have seen that has said Long would be better suited on the right side is Mayock, and that guy is a freaking idiot.


There is never a way to be ABSOLUTELY sure about a draft prospect's ability to translate to the pros. The only real thing to go on is a prospects measurables, and J.Long has that hands down. Eventualy people are going to have to stop marginalizing every prospects talent in an effort to promot whom they feel should be the pick.


Do YOU really have evidence of why Long should play on the right side? Did you watch his games and see some phantom flaw in his game? Or are you just regurgitating what you've read somewhere else?

i watched his games, have seen the coaches fiilm on the guy and have read numerous scouting reports saying his best fit is probably on the right side. read nfl draft countdown. read alot of the draft magazines, all questioning his ability to be an elite LT. Ask KB, who watched plenty of film of the guy and see what he thinks. get vip and read what alot of knowledgeable posters have to say about him. you will be surprised.

 

[PerfectTeam]

show me a prospect with no question marks. he doesn't exist. I watch the film and see a guy dominating his competition. his footspeed has been documented to be better than Joe Thomas at this stage, so you can call him slow all you want but the facts say otherwise. how can you say he "has trouble" with an outside speed rush when it almost never worked on him? Jake Long faced an outside speed rush dozens of times last year and only one guy beat him one time. when he gives up only one sack, you have to say no one gave him fits, period.

well here is a quote from gil brandt who knows a thing or two about the draft.

"I don't know of a player in this draft who has no negatives," says Gil Brandt, draft analyst for NFL.com and former vice president of player personnel for the Dallas Cowboys. "Except Chris Long."

 

[PerfectTeam]

If V.Gholston and D.Harvey are considered top rush ends in the NFL than why isn't J.Long a top LT who stopped these two on a regular basis, it doesn't work in favour of one and not the other.
J.Long's strength can make up for that pathetic excuse that he's not fast enough by shoving guys off balance to get his feet back into position to block. Also him being a dominant run blocker and we'll be a dominant run team will slow down the pass rush aswell, creating excellent playaction to further slow down the rush, even though he'll prove that not to be necessary.
Having only been beaten in the 40 by J.Thomas some how means he doesn't have lateral agility and foot quickness, why do they do the other shuttles and cone drills for?

if you want to put that much stock into combine drills, i guess mike mamula should be in the hall of fame soon. the combine is not the end all be all, its part of the equation, with game tape being what holds alot more weight than the combine drills. anybody can look good in shorts. look at the tape, secondary pass rush moves give the fits. the outside rush with quick inside moves give him problems. moving side to side isnt his thing.