Michael Egnew...

[TheWalrus]

for all his physical gifts that you guys like to bring up why is sean smith always off balance or taking extra recovery steps when guys gear down or cut??? he's long and that's great and all but he can't match feet and balance with most top 2 level wrs in this league...he shut down ocho in camp cause ocho was washed up...guys gonna wear a target starting in a few weeks here...you can run any route you want against him on the boundary and feel comfortable your wr is gonna win...

Most starters in the NFL have flaws here or there. All I want to see you admit is that there are positives to his game. Everyone's allowed to prioritize what skills they like to see at certain positions but always when it comes to Sean Smith you say he's "garbage" and will get "roasted" and that's just not what happens in the games. If you're saying that's what happens then I honestly have to question what Dolphins games you're watching. The guy has good coverage most of the time and excellent coverage some of the time. Why would he suddenly be worse this year if by all indications he's worked this offseason like never before and is having his best training camp?

I'm not talking about him shutting down Ocho. I'm talking about what I've seen for three years. He can't tackle, sometimes he looks awkward, but he can also completely erase people in coverage at times. I don't know if I would say that he looks awkward any more often than Vontae looks disinterested or otherwise makes a mental error.

Bad play is bad play. The why and how it looks isn't really so important to me most of the time, particularly when a player is this far into this career and is pretty much the player they're going to be.

I'm hopeful about Sean Smith this year. I think he a really good year in him. If you don't that's fine but it's hard to take your evaluation of our corners seriously if you're not going to be this hard on Vontae. Whatever his gifts -- and they're considerable -- he doesn't play to them.

 

[justdev7]

i dubbed this scrub buttercup after we drafted him...and it fits

I'll admit that I was a huge fan of the egnew pick. I lived his size/speed combo but I had no idea that he was so air headed. It seems like hes in his own world.

Hope he can pick it up.

 

[ckparrothead]

I'll admit that I was a huge fan of the egnew pick. I lived his size/speed combo but I had no idea that he was so air headed. It seems like hes in his own world.

Hope he can pick it up.

What exactly gives you the impression he's air headed? Because he's a rookie and is still learning a pro play book he was never exposed to at Mizzou, and so he got yelled at on Hard Knocks? You liked him coming out. There's no reason to think you were wrong. Not yet.

This is what annoys me. Anyone that was convinced Egnew sucked coming out, I certainly don't expect they've changed their mind. But anyone that liked him coming out, also has zero reason to change their mind. Zero.

And anyone trying to act differently, like anything has been 'confirmed' is just plain foolish.

 

[hoops]

Most starters in the NFL have flaws here or there. All I want to see you admit is that there are positives to his game. Everyone's allowed to prioritize what skills they like to see at certain positions but always when it comes to Sean Smith you say he's "garbage" and will get "roasted" and that's just not what happens in the games. If you're saying that's what happens then I honestly have to question what Dolphins games you're watching. The guy has good coverage most of the time and excellent coverage some of the time. Why would he suddenly be worse this year if by all indications he's worked this offseason like never before and is having his best training camp?

I'm not talking about him shutting down Ocho. I'm talking about what I've seen for three years. He can't tackle, sometimes he looks awkward, but he can also completely erase people in coverage at times. I don't know if I would say that he looks awkward any more often than Vontae looks disinterested or otherwise makes a mental error.

Bad play is bad play. The why and how it looks isn't really so important to me most of the time, particularly when a player is this far into this career and is pretty much the player they're going to be.

I'm hopeful about Sean Smith this year. I think he a really good year in him. If you don't that's fine but it's hard to take your evaluation of our corners seriously if you're not going to be this hard on Vontae. Whatever his gifts -- and they're considerable -- he doesn't play to them.

ok you got my attention...let's talk about it...

first off you can't just say his tackling stinks like it's no big deal...the guys probably the worst tackling starting cb in football...he'll give up a soft corner against the run all day long if the opposition decides to come his way...how many damn times have i counted him making the lamest attempt at a tackle on a back diving from a bad angle to faint a attempt or how many times have i seen him be responsible for the edge making the back at least have to go east and west allowing the pursuit to arrive and instead he gives up the inside most direct route to the endzone...countless...i've stopped counting to be honest...he doesn't wrap up is all arms tackler doesn't bring his hips and power thru...there has been no improvement since he got here in that regard none...

now lets get to his coverage which for some reason people think the guy can "shut down" someone...sean smith for his size has excellent physical tools but what he doesn't have and i've stressed since day 1 is excellent tools for a starting boundary cb...he's got by again starting cb level at best average feet and below average balance...he's always having to take extra or false recovery steps when a man makes a cut or gears down which nullifies his length advantage when guys come out of their breaks...those extra steps or gathering as i like to call it create the separation b/t himself and the wr necessary for the ball to arrive and the separation for a missed tackle from distance given smiths a GOD AWFUL tackler...

furthermore sean smith does not have high end quick acceleration or recovery speed hell he doesn't even have by nfl boundary cb levels legit straight line speed...so when he's beat he's toast...he doesn't use his inside arm in press to reroute a wr off the line will give anyone the inside release which means he's in trouble on anything quick and inside he's more than happy to just trail and hope his length will make for a difficult throwing lane but the minute the wr makes a cut he can't match feet hips balance acceleration you name it...

all this talk about how a few years ago he was one of the league leaders in coverage stats...you mean when they decided to move him to an extra db like safety roll in dime or whatever and he was responsible for a specific zone more than a man??? cause that's exactly what that was...

by nfl starting cb measures he plays a finesse game with average tools...and i'm probably being kind on that...given his average at best tools he should be playing a more physical game at the los and down the field...but he doesn't and he never will...so i ask you what dolphins game have you been watching???

 

[justdev7]

i dubbed this scrub buttercup after we drafted him...and it fits

I'll admit that I was a huge fan of the egnew pick. I lived his size/speed combo but I had no idea that he was so air headed. It seems like hes in his own world.

Hope he can pick it up.

 

[hoops]

I'll admit that I was a huge fan of the egnew pick. I lived his size/speed combo but I had no idea that he was so air headed. It seems like hes in his own world.

Hope he can pick it up.

well at least you can admit that you expected a lot more and the guys sucked donkey nuts to date...i'll give you that

 

[WVDolphan]

:tubes:

 

[TheWalrus]

ok you got my attention...let's talk about it...

first off you can't just say his tackling stinks like it's no big deal...the guys probably the worst tackling starting cb in football...he'll give up a soft corner against the run all day long if the opposition decides to come his way...how many damn times have i counted him making the lamest attempt at a tackle on a back diving from a bad angle to faint a attempt or how many times have i seen him be responsible for the edge making the back at least have to go east and west allowing the pursuit to arrive and instead he gives up the inside most direct route to the endzone...countless...i've stopped counting to be honest...he doesn't wrap up is all arms tackler doesn't bring his hips and power thru...there has been no improvement since he got here in that regard none...

now lets get to his coverage which for some reason people think the guy can "shut down" someone...sean smith for his size has excellent physical tools but what he doesn't have and i've stressed since day 1 is excellent tools for a starting boundary cb...he's got by again starting cb level at best average feet and below average balance...he's always having to take extra or false recovery steps when a man makes a cut or gears down which nullifies his length advantage when guys come out of their breaks...those extra steps or gathering as i like to call it create the separation b/t himself and the wr necessary for the ball to arrive and the separation for a missed tackle from distance given smiths a GOD AWFUL tackler...

furthermore sean smith does not have high end quick acceleration or recovery speed hell he doesn't even have by nfl boundary cb levels legit straight line speed...so when he's beat he's toast...he doesn't use his inside arm in press to reroute a wr off the line will give anyone the inside release which means he's in trouble on anything quick and inside he's more than happy to just trail and hope his length will make for a difficult throwing lane but the minute the wr makes a cut he can't match feet hips balance acceleration you name it...

all this talk about how a few years ago he was one of the league leaders in coverage stats...you mean when they decided to move him to an extra db like safety roll in dime or whatever and he was responsible for a specific zone more than a man??? cause that's exactly what that was...

by nfl starting cb measures he plays a finesse game with average tools...and i'm probably being kind on that...given his average at best tools he should be playing a more physical game at the los and down the field...but he doesn't and he never will...so i ask you what dolphins game have you been watching???

He's a bad tackler, sure. I hate that. I think it's a problem. But, there are other well respected corners out there that aren't good tacklers. Asante Samuel, DeAngleo Hall, Antonio Cromartie. None of them tackle. but I'd rather a corner be a bad tackler than a bad cover guy, if it comes down to it. Wouldn't you? I mean, obviously we all want complete players with no flaws but that's just not the reality of the NFL. Even Nnamdi, who is or used to be considered one of the top two or three corners in the NFL lacks elite feet and doesn't have great awareness in zone. Doesn't make him garbage, though.

I also agree Smith doesn't have the feet of an elite starting corner. No problem admitting that. BUT... being nearly 6'4 with like 34 inch arms does allows you to get away with that. If it didn't, he wouldn't be able to play. He'd wear a target, which he obviously doesn't, since he doesn't get a ton of balls thrown his way. Forget the dime safety stuff, even in regular coverage it's not like he sees a ton of action. If he was just some mediocrity out there he would. But he doesn't. Explain that to me. Are offenses just ****ing stupid, or do they see a unique player who's susceptible on certain kinds of routes but with his size and quickness for his size can completely wipe stuff out that other corners can't. That size is part of his "tools," hoops. I don't know why you fail to acknowledge that.

Now, give me the scouting report on Vontae. I trust you'll be just as unsparing.

 

[TheWalrus]

For what it's worth, by the way, I didn't like Egnew coming out of Missouri. His workout numbers are great but then so are Roberto Wallace's. To me they're somewhat similar players, though Egnew undoubtedly plays the ball better in the air. Neither can separate.

But closing the door on him after two preseason games is ridiculous.

 

[ckparrothead]

For what it's worth, by the way, I didn't like Egnew coming out of Missouri. His workout numbers are great but then so are Roberto Wallace's. To me they're somewhat similar players, though Egnew undoubtedly plays the ball better in the air. Neither can separate.

But closing the door on him after two preseason games is ridiculous.

Absolutely. And expecting people that LIKED him coming out to suddenly not like him based on two preseason games, equally ridiculous...no?

 

[hoops]

He's a bad tackler, sure. I hate that. I think it's a problem. But, there are other well respected corners out there that aren't good tacklers. Asante Samuel, DeAngleo Hall, Antonio Cromartie. None of them tackle. but I'd rather a corner be a bad tackler than a bad cover guy, if it comes down to it. Wouldn't you? I mean, obviously we all want complete players with no flaws but that's just not the reality of the NFL. Even Nnamdi, who is or used to be considered one of the top two or three corners in the NFL lacks elite feet and doesn't have great awareness in zone. Doesn't make him garbage, though.

I also agree Smith doesn't have the feet of an elite starting corner. No problem admitting that. BUT... being nearly 6'4 with like 34 inch arms does allows you to get away with that. If it didn't, he wouldn't be able to play. He'd wear a target, which he obviously doesn't, since he doesn't get a ton of balls thrown his way. Forget the dime safety stuff, even in regular coverage it's not like he sees a ton of action. If he was just some mediocrity out there he would. But he doesn't. Explain that to me. Are offenses just ****ing stupid, or do they see a unique player who's susceptible on certain kinds of routes but with his size and quickness for his size can completely wipe stuff out that other corners can't. That size is part of his "tools," hoops. I don't know why you fail to acknowledge that.

Now, give me the scouting report on Vontae. I trust you'll be just as unsparing.

deangelo hall sucks...if he played for us i'd be pissed...asante samuel is a freaking ballhawk or he was at least in his prime...antonio cromarties physical tools for his great length BLOW SEAN SMITHS OUT THE WATER...that guys like a preying mantis...

nhamdi is what you hope for when you take a chance on a corner that tall and long...but for every corner that makes it with his length and size there's a ton that never add up to squat...nhamdi is the absolute exception...i don't even like corners that long in the draft cause you usually end up with average hips average feet and given that length guys who have to gather in and out of cuts...i don't think they'll be as quick twitch and sudden and heck the league doesn't either thats why they are so few and far between...and sean smith just reinforces those beliefs for me...the gather steps the feet he can't match etc...if you think ocs are afraid to go after that guy your nuts...

now you tell me what kind of routes sean smith is not susceptible to??? i don't know of any...

as for my vontae scouting report more than happy to give it you...tomorrow...got to be at the gym to play ball in like 5 hours...

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

The difference between Sean Smith and the names of some of the cornerbacks mentioned here that can't tackle is that they cause turnovers. You can't be a good defense if you don't cause turnovers, it doesn't matter what your unit is "ranked".

If you understand how to break down a defensive back, and really study Sean Smith, you won't like what you see. At all. You don't even have to select plays where he was thrown at, just pick random plays and pay attention to his technique. It's absolutely terrible a lot of times.

Just take the play where Cam Newton completed that 25 yard pass to Brandon Lafell with 9:34 left in the 1st quarter. Sean Smith playing man technique, immediately takes a false step at the snap with the wrong foot, stands straight up in his backpedal, and gives the receiver the easiest...cleanest inside release to the seem that you'll ever see.

Just take random plays like this one and study Smith's technique over and over. I've done it since he's been here.... and what I'm about to say is not an exaggeration. I have no idea how he's a starting cornerback in the NFL. None. It's as baffling as anything I've run across.

 

[NoblePhin]

I think the 4th preseason game is going to determine if Egnew stays or we risk cutting him and stashing him on the PS. Smith by far is not the worst corner in the league, but I have to say that his tackling and his loose technique is definitely frustrating to watch. I have to agree that I also believe that he excels more as a situational player who can cover athletic TE's like Kellen Davis. I don't see why they never thought of just starting Richard Marshall and Vontae together, great run support and very physical corners. Smith in the middle with his size and reach taking off lanes, Reshad headhunting and Clemons over the top. Seriously, does it have to be so hard?

 

[TheWalrus]

Absolutely. And expecting people that LIKED him coming out to suddenly not like him based on two preseason games, equally ridiculous...no?

No doubt. I still think Gates should make this team and he hasn't done much of anything (with the ball in his hands, anyway, though he's the kind of guy who affects the game even when he doesn't get the ball) in two years.

If you like a player coming out of college you're going to keep finding reasons to like him until it becomes just head slapping obvious they can't play. Likewise if you don't like a player you'll always find reasons to not like them unless they become elite. That's just human nature.

 

[LikeUntoGod]

Wow, I've never seen a rookie that seems overwhelmed in his first few moths in the NFL........................Seriously. he is the 3rd or 4th TE on this team and that is all we should expect ATM. Yes, he seems like a deer in the headlights but I can wait for him to get used to the NFL. One huge reason is that I do not expect that much out of him. If in the last part of the season he catches 15 passes I'd be happy.

C CLay was the same way last season then showed up late in the year.

And let me add for the first time this season that improved play from the QB position will greatly improve our WRs and TEs and our running game.