NY Daily News: Torre Out, Pinella In

[MikeO]

willie was offered the Cincy job so I don't know how much of a token he was. he declined b/c they offered him so little money.

they offered him so little money knowing he wouldn't take it. The offer was laughable!

It was insulting to everyone involved.

 

[Boik14]

Sorry if this was in the Yankees thread. I looked thru the last three pages and didn't see it. I'll merge if I missed.

Anyway, SportsCenter....citing the NY Daily News....says King George is expected to fire Yankees manager Joe Torre and replace him with Lou Pinella.

Just passing it along.

I just saw this and the Yankees must be out of their damn minds. George must have gone senile or stupid (one or the other..maybe both). Pinella is a great manager but that staff is just way overrated and it didnt really give torre a fighting chance with a line up full of non playoff performers. Cashman is the one who deserves to get canned. Bring back Bob watson, hes the oen that assembled those yankee teams back in the mid 90's acquiring tino, brosius, boggs, o neill...that was all watson. He and stick michael wer ethe ones who developed bernie, jeets, posada, petitte, mo, etc. They deserve to be in charge but until the yanks look in the direction of those types of players; clutch performers and high impact players who will take walk after walk, they wont win.

 

[nyjunc]

they offered him so little money knowing he wouldn't take it. The offer was laughable!

It was insulting to everyone involved.

I still wouldn't call that a token interview, how does Cincy know he wouldn't take it? What if he said screw the money I just want my first chance to be a Mgr and took the job? That's dangerous if he was just a token interview.

 

[djfresh47]

I still wouldn't call that a token interview, how does Cincy know he wouldn't take it? What if he said screw the money I just want my first chance to be a Mgr and took the job? That's dangerous if he was just a token interview.

While alot of times minorities are interviewed just to pass the system it can be good for the guy just go get the interview. They really have no opportunity for the job but it does prepare them when they go on a real interview. Didn't the Phins do it with Art Shell before Saban got the job?

Finally the name that I thought we would hear more about is getting some run in Joe Girardi.

 

[RWhitney014]

Lou Piniella and George Steinbrenner will be a reality show. It's gonna be fun.

And I don't care how tight Sweet Lou is with A-Rod, there's a very, very slim chance he's back next year. There's nothing he can do to avoid the tabloids. He could go 9-10 with 9 homers in the WS, but if he strikes out in the last AB of the series, he's the scapegoat.

 

[nyjunc]

Lou Piniella and George Steinbrenner will be a reality show. It's gonna be fun.

And I don't care how tight Sweet Lou is with A-Rod, there's a very, very slim chance he's back next year. There's nothing he can do to avoid the tabloids. He could go 9-10 with 9 homers in the WS, but if he strikes out in the last AB of the series, he's the scapegoat.

I se people say thins like that all the time but it's not true. People act like ARod has come through alot and that his failures are just magnified, the truth is he's been horrendous for us. If he had SOME success he'd get alot of slack but the man doesn't have an RBi in his last 12 postseason games! That's unbelievable for a guy as talented as he is hitting in a lineup like this.

 

[FinsNYanksFan13]

Lou Piniella and George Steinbrenner will be a reality show. It's gonna be fun.

And I don't care how tight Sweet Lou is with A-Rod, there's a very, very slim chance he's back next year. There's nothing he can do to avoid the tabloids. He could go 9-10 with 9 homers in the WS, but if he strikes out in the last AB of the series, he's the scapegoat.

Honestly, the tabloids have got it right when it comes to A-Rod. Your a Marlins fan so I'm going to take it you watch them every night and not the Yankees but if you do happen to watch the Yankees every night like I do then you would know just how unclutch A-Rod is. This is a guy who on at least 8 occasions this season needed a sac fly to get a go ahead or tying run home and struck out on most occasions (or would ground into a double play or do anything but get the run home). The rumor about A-Rod being the anti clutch is real and it doesn't matter if it's a meaningless regular season game or a World Series game, he doesn't ever get it done because he thinks so much at the plate. I was a huuuuuuuuuuuge A-Rod supporter down to the end but at the end of the day, he's got to go. It's just not working here. In Florida or Texas or Seattle, it's OK to be unclutch with 100 RBI's and 40 homers. Here in NY, it's a different story. I mean look at the throwing error A-Rod had in game 4. That runner came home to score. It would have been the third out of the inning had it been a good throw but instead A-Rod opens up the flood gates for another run by the Tigers. There is nothing A-Rod can do to avoid the tabloids because he will never be clutch in NY or anywhere because he doesn't have the stomach for those spots. A-Rod is not a scapegoat, he is a problem. If Torre is fired, that's a scapegoat but A-Rod deserves to be traded and isn't a scapegoat, he deserves all the boo's and criticism he gets. Like I said, you have to be a Yankees fan who watches every game to know why A-Rod is treated the way he is. It has nothing to do with money, it has nothing to do with him being bi-racial or his looks, it has to do with Yankees fans being sick of him coming up in big spots needing the littlest of hits or a sac fly or whatever and failing miserably over and over and over again. A-Rod doesn't have it, not only in NY, he just doesn't have it PERIOD!


As far as this Lou Pinella thing, if the Yankees do fire Joe and hire him, this is a slap in the face to Jeter. It shows the Yankees are catering to A-Rod and trying to do all they can to get him out of his funk. That's a slap in the face to Jeter. This is Jeter's team and if you go out and give A-Rod his manager all your doing is alienating the Captain. Now if the Yankees go out and hire somebody else like Mattingly or Girardi, that's cool with me. If it's Pinella, I think the Yankees are making a mistake. The guys will rebel against Pinella's attitude after it gets to overbearing (which it will). This why Torre fits well, because he know's how to deal with ego's. If the Boss is looking for a scapegoat he needs to look at himself in the mirror. Until this last season the Boss had his nose in all personel decisions and that killed the Yankees because if you look close at it, all the guys the Boss had to have that Cashman wasn't to fond of are the guys who failed. Sheffield, Randy, Wright, and A-Rod are all guys the Boss had to have at any cost. These weren't Cashman or Torre guys, they are the Boss's guys so if the Boss wants to throw anyone under the bus, it should be himself, not Torre!

 

[Ray Finkle]

As far as this Lou Pinella thing, if the Yankees do fire Joe and hire him, this is a slap in the face to Jeter. It shows the Yankees are catering to A-Rod and trying to do all they can to get him out of his funk. That's a slap in the face to Jeter. This is Jeter's team and if you go out and give A-Rod his manager all your doing is alienating the Captain.

Good post. I agree with a lot of what you said however you can make the arguement that Jeter, being the captain, has done things to alienate Arod from the rest of the team and never make him feel comfortable in NY. Jeter backed Giambi for cheating but he couldn't back Arod when everyone was killing him? I know it's not his job to say to the fans, lay off Arod for a bit, but isn't that part of being a captain? To help the team on and off the field?

I don't know why hiring Pinella is a slap in Jeter's face, though. Hiring Pinella doesn't mean Arod still stays with the team and even if he does why should Jeter get to make team decisions? I doubt Arod went to management and told them to hire Pinella, nor is Pinella being hired just for Arod. And yes I know Pinella "helped" Arod eariler this year but Pinella was rumored to be the next manager of the Yankees starting in 2004.

 

[djfresh47]

Honestly, the tabloids have got it right when it comes to A-Rod. Your a Marlins fan so I'm going to take it you watch them every night and not the Yankees but if you do happen to watch the Yankees every night like I do then you would know just how unclutch A-Rod is. This is a guy who on at least 8 occasions this season needed a sac fly to get a go ahead or tying run home and struck out on most occasions (or would ground into a double play or do anything but get the run home). The rumor about A-Rod being the anti clutch is real and it doesn't matter if it's a meaningless regular season game or a World Series game, he doesn't ever get it done because he thinks so much at the plate. I was a huuuuuuuuuuuge A-Rod supporter down to the end but at the end of the day, he's got to go. It's just not working here. In Florida or Texas or Seattle, it's OK to be unclutch with 100 RBI's and 40 homers. Here in NY, it's a different story. I mean look at the throwing error A-Rod had in game 4. That runner came home to score. It would have been the third out of the inning had it been a good throw but instead A-Rod opens up the flood gates for another run by the Tigers. There is nothing A-Rod can do to avoid the tabloids because he will never be clutch in NY or anywhere because he doesn't have the stomach for those spots. A-Rod is not a scapegoat, he is a problem. If Torre is fired, that's a scapegoat but A-Rod deserves to be traded and isn't a scapegoat, he deserves all the boo's and criticism he gets. Like I said, you have to be a Yankees fan who watches every game to know why A-Rod is treated the way he is. It has nothing to do with money, it has nothing to do with him being bi-racial or his looks, it has to do with Yankees fans being sick of him coming up in big spots needing the littlest of hits or a sac fly or whatever and failing miserably over and over and over again. A-Rod doesn't have it, not only in NY, he just doesn't have it PERIOD!


As far as this Lou Pinella thing, if the Yankees do fire Joe and hire him, this is a slap in the face to Jeter. It shows the Yankees are catering to A-Rod and trying to do all they can to get him out of his funk. That's a slap in the face to Jeter. This is Jeter's team and if you go out and give A-Rod his manager all your doing is alienating the Captain. Now if the Yankees go out and hire somebody else like Mattingly or Girardi, that's cool with me. If it's Pinella, I think the Yankees are making a mistake. The guys will rebel against Pinella's attitude after it gets to overbearing (which it will). This why Torre fits well, because he know's how to deal with ego's. If the Boss is looking for a scapegoat he needs to look at himself in the mirror. Until this last season the Boss had his nose in all personel decisions and that killed the Yankees because if you look close at it, all the guys the Boss had to have that Cashman wasn't to fond of are the guys who failed. Sheffield, Randy, Wright, and A-Rod are all guys the Boss had to have at any cost. These weren't Cashman or Torre guys, they are the Boss's guys so if the Boss wants to throw anyone under the bus, it should be himself, not Torre!

I disagree. Joe Torre has had the best team money can buy for the last 6 seasons and has not gotten it done. Regardless I don't think Joe Torre is a great in-game manager. Guys probably would like to see him stay but somebody has to be held accountable. A-Rod is one of the most talented guys in the game and bringing in Lou is not a move just to cater to A-Rod. I'm not sure how much of an upgrade that Lou is but it would be a change for the Yankees and sometimes that is needed. I believe Torre has one year left on his contract and why go through a season of players constantly being questioned about whether Joe will get another contract which is another distraction. Especially since the two lead candidates are available now and who knows if they'll be available next season?

 

[Ray Finkle]

I disagree. Joe Torre has had the best team money can buy for the last 6 seasons and has not gotten it done. Regardless I don't think Joe Torre is a great in-game manager. Guys probably would like to see him stay but somebody has to be held accountable. A-Rod is one of the most talented guys in the game and bringing in Lou is not a move just to cater to A-Rod. I'm not sure how much of an upgrade that Lou is but it would be a change for the Yankees and sometimes that is needed. I believe Torre has one year left on his contract and why go through a season of players constantly being questioned about whether Joe will get another contract which is another distraction. Especially since the two lead candidates are available now and who knows if they'll be available next season?

I don't either. He's a GREAT clubhouse guy no doubt about it (maybe the best) but he's not the best techinical manager in the game. Not taking anything away from Torre but I think just about any manager in the MLB during 1996 to 200 could have won those 4 championships he did because the Yankees were just so talented. Again not a knock on Torre because I like him and respect him a lot.

And you're right he's had a lot of talented teams and came up short the past 6 years in big spots, some of which you can blame him for.

 

[djfresh47]

I don't either. He's a GREAT clubhouse guy no doubt about it (maybe the best) but he's not the best techinical manager in the game. Not taking anything away from Torre but I think just about any manager in the MLB during 1996 to 200 could have won those 4 championships he did because the Yankees were just so talented.

And you're right he's had a lot of talented teams and came up short the past 6 years in big spots, some of which you can blame him for.

During the course of 162 games a manager decides very little, IMO. When it is a short series managers can make a difference just by knowing their team and the matchups. Torre is a good clubhouse guy from what i've heard but he still threw A-Rod under the bus with the SI article. Torre got the benefit of the doubt in the past and as an outsider looking in I think it's time the Yankees moved on. The guy was the manager of a team that blew a 3-0 lead in the ALCS and has lost in the 1st rd of the playoffs the last two seasons. Regardless of what they've done in the past their are very vew managers/coaches who could blow a 3-0 lead and then lose in the playoffs in the 1st rd the next two season and keep their job.

 

[Ray Finkle]

During the course of 162 games a manager decides very little, IMO. When it is a short series managers can make a difference just by knowing their team and the matchups. Torre is a good clubhouse guy from what i've heard but he still threw A-Rod under the bus with the SI article. Torre got the benefit of the doubt in the past and as an outsider looking in I think it's time the Yankees moved on. The guy was the manager of a team that blew a 3-0 lead in the ALCS and has lost in the 1st rd of the playoffs the last two seasons. Regardless of what they've done in the past their are very vew managers/coaches who could blow a 3-0 lead and then lose in the playoffs in the 1st rd the next two season and keep their job.

Former MLB players told me that a good manager will help the team win 5 games during the regular season and a bad manager will lose the team 5 games. The other 157 are up to the team. However in the playoffs both the manager and the team get exposed. (Although I'm still trying to figure out how Francona was so good in the 2004 playoffs, almost every move the guy made was good).

 

[FinsNYanksFan13]

These past 2 seasons Joe Torre has done some of the best jobs he's done in his career with the Yankees. This year he weathered many storms and the Yankees not only won the division, they ran away with it. Last year Torre was missing his whole pitching staff for half the season (Wang, Wright, and Pavano) and still got the Yankees into the playoffs. Lou Pinella would have folded like a little girl in those positions. Lou Pinella might not have had the talent that Joe Torre has had, but let's face it, this isn't Bobby Cox, Tony LaRussa, or Tommy Lasorda, this is a guy who has won 4 division titles in 19 years as a manager (and 1 world series). What, because Lou Pinella yells and acts a fool that makes him a better manager then Joe Torre? You guys, like the boss are looking at Torre as the scapegoat. It's not right no matter how you cut it. The Yankees got screwed when they brought back Matsui and Sheffield and screwed the chemistry of the team up. This Yankees team changed when those 2 came back in the line-up. Instead of waiting for the 3 run homerun like they did the last 2 seasons the 2006 Yankees could run the bases, played smart defense, and HUSTLED. As soon as those 2 came back the team reverted back to it's old ways and this is the reason why they are in the situation they are in (although I love Matsui, don't get it twisted). Joe Torre got stuck because he had to play Sheff and Matsui because of how much money they make. In the end, this shouldn't fall on Joe Torre's head it should fall in the Bosses own head because every guy who failed for the Yankees big time in the post-season WERE ALL HIS IDEA. He personally wanted Jaret Wright (you guys know Cashman isn't that stupid), personally negotiated Gary Sheffield, personally wanted A-Rod (to piss Boston off), and personally wanted Randy Johnson (because he wanted Boston to see they got the 2nd best pitcher from Arizona's title team. We all know who the better pitcher is right now). The Boss needs to continue to let Joe and Cashman work this team back through the farm system, the young guys, and through smart trades and signings. They've had one year to do it so far and it worked solid. None of Torre's and Cash's guys failed, only the Boss's boys did. It's time for the Boss to continue to relax in Tampa and give Cashman and Torre more then 1 year of full charge without his interference to make this team their vision!


JUST SAY NO TO PINELLA!

 

[Ray Finkle]

Torre didn't have to play Sheffield or Matsui in the playoffs. It wasn't the money issue, because he sat Sheffield and even Giambi for game each. Torre easily could have sat Sheffield down in the playoffs saying "I'm not comfortable playing Gary on 1st because he lacks the experience and Giambi can't play because of his wrist so Wilson/Phillips will be the 1st baseman, Giambi/Sheffield will DH".

You can't kill Torre for playing Matsui because only him, Jeter and Posada batted over .300.

Torre or Arod shouldn't be the only scapegoats, because the whole team outside of Wang and Rivera stunk. Really the Yankees losing is a team failure.

It might just be a time for a change in NY. Maybe Pinella isn't the answer, maybe he is, maybe someone else is.

 

[MikeO]

11 years on 1 job is a loooooooong time.

There have been 91 manager changes since Joe took over in the mid-90's. That comes out to about 3 per team.

Nobody ever thought a manager for the NY YANKEES under George Steinbrenner would last 11 years. Joe did. Joe will get his $7 mill owed to him. Joe won't be prevented from managing somewhere else next year.

It's just time for a change. Is he being made one of the scapegoats....maybe. But oh well. Someone has to take the fall, and someone has to take the first hit. Might as well start at the top!