Pat White, the deep ball and other options | Page 11 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Pat White, the deep ball and other options

You didn't really post Senior Bowl #s, did you?

#s are nice but I'll have to dig deeper when I get a chance. #s don't tell the whole story just like Sanchez's good #s against Or State.

Why wouldn't I post his Senior Bowl numbers? For many of the guys that participate in it, it's one of the most important games they've ever played in. You're playing against top notch athletes and a stellar performance could vault you to untold heights (see: Rivers, Phil) or sink you to obscurity (see: Woodson, Andre). There's a lot of pressure on you in that game against good competition, just like there is a lot of pressure on you in a Rose Bowl appearance.

And I agree, the numbers don't always tell the story. But when you post that he's 1-3 in Bowl games, you're suggesting that he sucks in big games. When I post the actual stats from his 5 bowl appearances, the numbers suggest he was stellar in those big games. Which is it? Well, for one thing, obviously the 1-4 record in bowl games doesn't fully describe his performance in big games. Perhaps the five individual 90+ QB ratings and the total 99.0 QB rating doesn't fully describe his performance in big games either, but I never said it did.
 
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Callahan is an excellent OL coach, Cavanaugh helped develop Flacco last year, Ryan obviosuly has something to prove bu Brian Schottenheimer is a good OC.

I don't expect much of Sanchez this year, I just want to see him begin to develop. Get better as the season goes on and start to get comfortable as an NFL QB.

Could be. Not to be picky, but that Ryan quote rubbed me the wrong way when he said something like he's stepped over bigger guys than Crowder in a fight, or that he'd take care of him himself if he were younger. It just makes him sound like a bag of hot air- Ryan in his prime against Crowder- good luck. Like I said, not that big of a deal, it just rubbed me the wrong way and wouldn't be something that I'd want my HC to say.

Sanchez- I think that he'll do well, but if he starts off of the bat he could get abused and physically and/or emotionally damaged. It's kind of hard to see him starting as a rookie with such little experience, but you never know.
 
Why wouldn't I post his Senior Bowl numbers? For many of the guys that participate in it, it's one of the most important games they've ever played in. You're playing against top notch athletes and a stellar performance could vault you to untold heights (see: Rivers, Phil) or sink you to obscurity (see: Woodson, Andre). There's a lot of pressure on you in that game against good competition, just like there is a lot of pressure on you in a Rose Bowl appearance.

And I agree, the numbers don't always tell the story. But when you post that he's 1-3 in Bowl games, you're suggesting that he sucks in big games. When I post the actual stats from his 5 bowl appearances, the numbers suggest he was stellar in those big games. Which is it? Well, for one thing, obviously the 1-4 record in bowl games doesn't fully describe his performance in big games. Perhaps the five individual 90+ QB ratings and the total 99.0 QB rating doesn't fully describe his performance in big games either, but I never said it did.

The Senior bowl is important but it's not like playing a real game, it's not fair to praise or criticize based on an all-star game.

ratings are nice but making plays when it matters means more and I don't care what your D does you have to win at home against a 1AA team.

Could be. Not to be picky, but that Ryan quote rubbed me the wrong way when he said something like he's stepped over bigger guys than Crowder in a fight, or that he'd take care of him himself if he were younger. It just makes him sound like a bag of hot air- Ryan in his prime against Crowder- good luck. Like I said, not that big of a deal, it just rubbed me the wrong way and wouldn't be something that I'd want my HC to say.

Sanchez- I think that he'll do well, but if he starts off of the bat he could get abused and physically and/or emotionally damaged. It's kind of hard to see him starting as a rookie with such little experience, but you never know.

He was smiling and laughing when he said those things. Rex talks a little too much but he's being himself. He's a great quote but his team will need to back him up or he'll be a DC again real soon.

I want Sanchez to play if he's ready, if not I am comfortable w/ Clemens. I don't wat to see Sanchez rushed and I would hope they wouldn't.
 
The Senior bowl is important but it's not like playing a real game, it's not fair to praise or criticize based on an all-star game.

Then take out the Senior Bowl numbers then...doesn't exactly diminish the point...does it now?!!! They still look pretty damn good!!!
 
Keep in mind my criticism of Sanchez in the Oregon State game had to do with the way it went down, not just the fact that they lost.

In that game, they were frustrated all through the fourth quarter, but then Oregon State got into clock-killing mode a little too early with run after run after run, and Pete Carroll started burning timeouts so that he would have one more drive to try and tie the game. They got the ball with 3 minutes left. Instead of even making a valiant attempt though, Sanchez screwed the pooch. His body language before the drive was not good, his body language during the drive was not good, his throws were physically way off the mark (sailing very high on two throws, behind the receiver on another), and his decision-making was suspect (forcing it to Damian Williams in double coverage twice). This was the drive that they were building up to in order to tie the game and instead of pushing the ball down the field and making their stand on the door step of the other team's end zone, Sanchez barely got them a few yards down the field and then tossed what basically amounted to a pick-6.

When Chad Henne faced off with Texas in the Rose Bowl as a freshman, he turned it into one of the most exciting and competitive Rose Bowls of all time. It was a 38-37 shootout and Chad Henne helped Michigan get out to a 31-21 lead before Vince Young got a TD to make it 31-28. Instead of being a deer in headlights, Henne helped get them 61 yards into FG range to make it 34-28. Then Vince Young struck again, Texas took a 34-35 lead. Then Michigan struck again, making it 37-35 with 3 minutes remaining. At that point, Vince Young took Texas on a 46 yards to the Michigan 19 yard line for a game-winning field goal.

Against Nebraska in the Alamo Bowl, he entered the fourth quarter up 21-17 and pushed the ball down the field to make it 28-17. But then Nebraska got a big return and used the short field to score a TD and then got the 2-pt conversion to boot. With the game close at 28-25, Chad Henne went back to work but on his next two drives his teammates fumbled the ball and gave Nebraska the opportunity to go up 32-28. So, here we are with a similar situation, needing a touchdown or you lose the game...but instead of screwing the pooch, Chad Henne helped them get to the Nebraska 18 yard line before the drive stalled in part because of a penalty. If Sanchez had done the same on the Oregon State drive, I wouldn't be criticizing him for it. That's a game finish. You took your stab, you got things rolling, and you just fell short. That's not capitulation.

The Rose Bowl against USC in 2006 was a game that was not competitive. USC had their way with the Michigan defense, and the Michigan offense barely got off the ground. Chad Henne threw two touchdowns in the fourth quarter but there was never a point in the game where the game was on the line. There was never a "game in a drive" opportunity.

In the Capital One Bowl against Florida, this was another shootout with four lead changes. Florida went on top 35-31 with 6 minutes to go, and Chad Henne responded with completions of 6, 37 and 18 yards for a go-ahead touchdown. Tim Tebow had 4 minutes left on the clock but couldn't get anything going, gave the ball back to Michigan in field goal range in time to run the ball three times and kick a field goal to make it a 6 point game. Tim Tebow couldn't get them going on the next drive either.

And then of course you've got the Senior Bowl...limited number of drives, probably only four drives total in the first and third quarters before having to give way to the other QBs on the North...he threw the only two touchdowns the North got all game, and it would have been enough to win but for some last-drive heroics on the South that Henne had no control over.

So his numbers were good in all five bowl games, his team was competitive in four of them, and he was personally competitive in all clutch situations that came up. Can't ask for much more.
 
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The Senior bowl is important but it's not like playing a real game, it's not fair to praise or criticize based on an all-star game.

ratings are nice but making plays when it matters means more and I don't care what your D does you have to win at home against a 1AA team.



He was smiling and laughing when he said those things. Rex talks a little too much but he's being himself. He's a great quote but his team will need to back him up or he'll be a DC again real soon.

I want Sanchez to play if he's ready, if not I am comfortable w/ Clemens. I don't wat to see Sanchez rushed and I would hope they wouldn't.

Yeah, he was, I checked the video. Still not a pissing match that I'd want my head coach to be involved in. He was cracking up, so I have to give him credit for that. Still, don't be surprised if you see the best of Crowder against the Jets this year. Regarding Sanchez, I should have said that I'd be surprised to see him starting at the beginning of the season- I think that he'll get in there soon enough his rookie year, I don't see Clemens doing much to keep him down for long.
 
Then take out the Senior Bowl numbers then...doesn't exactly diminish the point...does it now?!!! They still look pretty damn good!!!

Mark Sanchez vs. Oregon State:

18-29, 227 yds, 3 TDs, 1 INT, 155 rating
 
You didn't really post Senior Bowl #s, did you?

#s are nice but I'll have to dig deeper when I get a chance. #s don't tell the whole story just like Sanchez's good #s against Or State.

You win games by NUMBERS, how else would it be determined? You have to score POINTS to win. Are POINTS not NUMBERS?

Look at my and CK's stats we provided. What the hell else is Henne supposed to do to win the game? Play all 11 spots on defense too?

yes he is being set up for failure by having a good coaching staff and talented players all around him. Hopefully he becomes the next QB to dominate Miami just like Chad and Vinny before him.

Does Henne not have a good coaching staff and talent around him as well? I already know you'll say the Jets have more talent than the Phins so save your breath on that one.
 
You win games by NUMBERS, how else would it be determined? You have to score POINTS to win. Are POINTS not NUMBERS?

Look at my and CK's stats we provided. What the hell else is Henne supposed to do to win the game? Play all 11 spots on defense too?



Does Henne not have a good coaching staff and talent around him as well? I already know you'll say the Jets have more talent than the Phins so save your breath on that one.

#s don't tell the whole story, I think you know that.

henne has a good staff around him, I don't think he has as much talent but he has talent around him. he's in a good situation down in Miami.
 
Look at it on the bright side, even if Henne isn't the next franchise QB we're all hoping for, at least we're not stuck paying him 10 mil a yr to be a flop.
 
Never said the #'s were bad that game, just the way he crumbled at the end.
 
#s don't tell the whole story, I think you know that.

henne has a good staff around him, I don't think he has as much talent but he has talent around him. he's in a good situation down in Miami.

I do know that. But a QB can't control what the defense does. Scoring 30 pts a game and losing both games cannot be blamed on the QB.
 
I think there have been games where Henne crumbled at the end, but I would venture a guess and say that most of them were early in his Michigan career, and that by the time he was done with Michigan, there were many more clutch type, under-fire situations that ended with a competitive game-finish than ones that ended with a Zoolander black lung cough.
 
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