so are we ready to shed millions? | Page 9 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

so are we ready to shed millions?

Sure, and if we could get a Rodgers or a Brees, I'm all for it. But most QBs who are NFL caliber will perform well when the team around them is good, and poorly when it's not. Tannehill is good enough to win with, trying to hit for the fences in the draft might work or it might set us back even longer. Yes, we've tried to build an OL and a defense and so many things and we've failed miserably, but we just have to do better. Look at poor Andrew Luck, his team finally got him killed, and he wasn't able to do it all on his own anyway. That's about our upside unless we build a better team around the QB.
 
J. David Wannyheimer said:
I think it was clear in 2016 that Ryan Tannehill performed well enough at situational football that the team would be stupid to dump a team-friendly contract to chase another quarterback who will demand a much less team-friendly contract and has a lot of "question marks" surrounding him. When you're talking #1 in the red zone, #1 against the blitz, good on third and long, ELITE at 40+ yard throws, etc., then quite frankly, we'd be paying money to downgrade. The situation in which you'd do that is if the knee is no good.

I think bringing in another quarterback with starting potential is an EXCELLENT idea. But breaking the bank for Kirk Cousins? Haaaaaaaaaa, no.
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Agreed. Here is a boring look at my life as preface. I've been managing my investments for 40+ years. I've learned I lose money if I invest in what I WANT to happen or what SHOULD happen. I make money by picking what I THINK will happen (but, sadly, I'm not always right). That said, I don't care what should happen. What I'm confident will happen is Tannehill returns as starter and Miami will NOT take a day 1 QB, unless, as you say, his prognosis deteriorates significantly. Cousins, or any other high-priced QB will not be coming to Miami.
 
J. David Wannyheimer said:
Baker Mayfield is going to be a first round draft pick. Anyone who thinks that guy should go in the second or later does not actually watch football. The crotch chop ain't going to hurt his draft stock, either. What's going to hurt his draft stock is the fact that he's got a DUI on his resume and there are two kinds of men in the world: Those who get DUIs and those who don't. When you put yourself in the first category, you don't get out of it.

There are a number of quarterbacks coming out in this draft class that I've watched and been impressed with. The only guy that would cause me to get upset if we drafted him would be Lamar Jackson. He's likely going in the first round on the strength of his workout numbers, and to say I have serious concerns about him as a thrower of the football would be a huge understatement. Nooooo thank you.
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Where does he have a DUI? He was arrested in Fayetteville for public intoxication, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest - deservedly so, when he was drunk out of his mind.and allegedly being questioned as a witness in a fight he claims he tried to break up....all misdemeanors. That had nothing to do with driving and that seems to be the only legal infraction he's had.

So yeah, I agree he falls into the category of being arrested for public drunkenness, but not for driving while under the influence. In the scheme of things, didn't Crowder leave his crashed truck rather than wait around for a breath test? And Ray Lewis compelled to turn state's evidence lest he be charged himself for complicity in a murder? Yeah, despite being an over imbibing college kid, you'd hope Mayfield would have exercised better judgement because of who he is, but really 1 youthful indiscretion should not sour a team on him.

But then again, if the Einsteins in our front office had any designs on him, I wouldn;'t mind other teams passing like they did on Dan and his affinity for college partying with the white stuff.
 
Damn what a thread to read through. Apparently <o> is some other poster in disguise, Tannehill vs Cousins is the debate of the century, and I got to read the name Davone Bess in a non-police blotter context. I'm exhausted.

My thoughts:
-Tannehill and Pouncey aren't going anywhere. Gase loves both.

-The O-line is likely to get completely overhauled, minus Pouncey, Davis and Tunsil.

-I'd be surprised if Wake retired. While he is getting up there, he got a late start on his NFL career so in his own mind wants to stay.

-Suh staying on this team next year will come down to how many positions this team thinks it needs to fill. I think it's honestly 50/50 right now, depending on what the internal evaluation of the cuttable players. I think they ultimately keep him because the coaches and GM are a little too close to the players and think they can change the cheetah's spots, so to speak.

-Barring a major about-face from team and player, Landry is a goner.

-The QB room on this team is garbage. Tannehill is going to get a shot to prove he can come back, but if anyone else is brought back it would be a complete and utter failure by the GM to upgrade a paper-thin position of major weakness. Matt Moore is in low-enough regard that Gase wants to trot out an injured Cutler time and again, and Fales is even lower than that. Other teams develop backups into eventual starters, but this team hasn't even attempted it since Damon Huard and Sage Rosenfels.

-Tight end has been ignored on this team for a LONG time...in an era that many super bowl teams had 1-2 pro bowl tight ends. Fasano and Thomas are done and I hope we get two new starters.

-I really hope we get a new Defensive Coordinator, and Burke accepts a demotion back to Linebackers coach.

Thanks ya'all!
 
<O> said:
The lynchpin in that scenario, however, is the question of how good a line any one team is likely to build, how much it would cost against the cap, and how likely it is to stay healthy.

This team, for example, has been trying to "build" a line for years, to the tune of three, first-round draft picks allocated to the present line, out of five positions, with one of the other two positions' being manned by a former Pro-Bowler who was signed as a free agent (Bushrod).

I'm not making the claim here that any of them is playing well at the present time, but what the situation overall illustrates is that all the intentions in the world to "build" a line can be for naught.

Putting together five separate players -- and paying them what they deserve and keeping them healthy -- such that they function together as one of the best units in the league over the longer haul isn't easy!

What might be necessary, instead, is acquiring a quarterback who plays better under pressure, and for whom as much successful line-building isn't needed.

Tannehill's level of play under pressure is as much (as or more) an indictment of him as it is the line. Notice how other QBs in the league play under pressure, for example, and don't even bother venturing upward to the best ones in the league (Rodgers, Brees, Brady, etc.).
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I think that one of the main reasons our O-line has been bad the last two years is the fact the FO/Coaching staff continue to count on Pouncey at center and as the "leader" of the line. Last year he got hurt again and missed 12 games then this year he's played every game but doesn't practice so the line doesn't gel together. Not a surprise that they've done better this year when Pouncey has come out of the game(2nd half against the falcons and in the Broncos game)with Brendel in there. Those 1st round picks you're talking about were all drafted by different people. Ireland took Pouncey, Dickey took James and t-baum took Tunsil and then Gase brought in his guy from the bears. There hasn't been a real plan to building that O-line by any ONE person with a real vision. It's just been people taking turns at drafting one guy in the first round and not knowing how that would work with the other guys.

Ozzy rules!!
 
Aqua and Orange said:
Damn what a thread to read through. Apparently <o> is some other poster in disguise, Tannehill vs Cousins is the debate of the century, and I got to read the name Davone Bess in a non-police blotter context. I'm exhausted.

My thoughts:
-Tannehill and Pouncey aren't going anywhere. Gase loves both.

-The O-line is likely to get completely overhauled, minus Pouncey, Davis and Tunsil.

-I'd be surprised if Wake retired. While he is getting up there, he got a late start on his NFL career so in his own mind wants to stay.

-Suh staying on this team next year will come down to how many positions this team thinks it needs to fill. I think it's honestly 50/50 right now, depending on what the internal evaluation of the cuttable players. I think they ultimately keep him because the coaches and GM are a little too close to the players and think they can change the cheetah's spots, so to speak.

-Barring a major about-face from team and player, Landry is a goner.

-The QB room on this team is garbage. Tannehill is going to get a shot to prove he can come back, but if anyone else is brought back it would be a complete and utter failure by the GM to upgrade a paper-thin position of major weakness. Matt Moore is in low-enough regard that Gase wants to trot out an injured Cutler time and again, and Fales is even lower than that. Other teams develop backups into eventual starters, but this team hasn't even attempted it since Damon Huard and Sage Rosenfels.

-Tight end has been ignored on this team for a LONG time...in an era that many super bowl teams had 1-2 pro bowl tight ends. Fasano and Thomas are done and I hope we get two new starters.

-I really hope we get a new Defensive Coordinator, and Burke accepts a demotion back to Linebackers coach.

Thanks ya'all!
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Not sure how you can call it a "complete overhaul" if you're only replacing two guys. That sounds like what we do every year. I expect this line to suck as long as Pouncey's the starting center

Ozzy rules!!
 
Danny said:
Not sure how you can call it a "complete overhaul" if you're only replacing two guys. That sounds like what we do every year. I expect this line to suck as long as Pouncey's the starting center

Ozzy rules!!
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Replacing two starters but all backups as well. That's a lot of cornfed.

Don't disagree with you about Pouncey.
 
this prior page worth of posts by j david is boss stuff...

although I would add on the baker Mayfield thing that his size is gonna be a bigger determinant of where he is drafted and his draft value pick wise than that dui or crotch grab

and the nfls gonna be watching him mighty closely when he plays against the sec's cream of the crop in the bowl championship semi and final should he get there vs bama or clemson
 
where's th'fish said:
Sure, and if we could get a Rodgers or a Brees, I'm all for it. But most QBs who are NFL caliber will perform well when the team around them is good, and poorly when it's not. Tannehill is good enough to win with, trying to hit for the fences in the draft might work or it might set us back even longer. Yes, we've tried to build an OL and a defense and so many things and we've failed miserably, but we just have to do better. Look at poor Andrew Luck, his team finally got him killed, and he wasn't able to do it all on his own anyway. That's about our upside unless we build a better team around the QB.
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What you find with Tannehill in his most recent season of play, in contrast to what you posted above in an earlier post on this page, is that he's far worse than the average QB under pressure, while being about average under no pressure.

See here:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/quarterbacks-and-pressure-2016

Based on some of the arguments made here about how Tannehill functions under pressure versus under no pressure, you would think Tannehill was well above average when under no pressure. He isn't however.
 
<O> said:
What you find with Tannehill in his most recent season of play, in contrast to what you posted above in an earlier post on this page, is that he's far worse than the average QB under pressure, while being about average under no pressure.

See here:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/quarterbacks-and-pressure-2016

Based on some of the arguments made here about how Tannehill functions under pressure versus under no pressure, you would think Tannehill was well above average when under no pressure. He isn't however.
Click to expand...

8th best is average?

CORRECTION - tied for 7th best
 
hoops said:
this page worth of posts by j david is boss stuff...

although I would add on the baker Mayfield thing that his size is gonna be a bigger determinant of where he is drafted and his draft value pick wise than that dui or crotch grab
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*hand size. It's obvious he won't be over 6'1" but I don't know how much he'll be knocked if he's 5'11" with the success Wilson is having. I doubt he's 5'10" but that will gives teams pause.

I'd love to sit in on that combine interview to see where his heads at and how many screws are loose ... there is a pattern. QBs with similar ??? coming out of college haven't exactly lit the world on fire as of late.

Like j-off has been preaching, hand size is make or break with him.
 
<O> said:
The lynchpin in that scenario, however, is the question of how good a line any one team is likely to build, how much it would cost against the cap, and how likely it is to stay healthy.

This team, for example, has been trying to "build" a line for years, to the tune of three, first-round draft picks allocated to the present line, out of five positions, with one of the other two positions' being manned by a former Pro-Bowler who was signed as a free agent (Bushrod).

I'm not making the claim here that any of them is playing well at the present time, but what the situation overall illustrates is that all the intentions in the world to "build" a line can be for naught.

Putting together five separate players -- and paying them what they deserve and keeping them healthy -- such that they function together as one of the best units in the league over the longer haul isn't easy!

What might be necessary, instead, is acquiring a quarterback who plays better under pressure, and for whom as much successful line-building isn't needed.

Tannehill's level of play under pressure is as much (as or more) an indictment of him as it is the line. Notice how other QBs in the league play under pressure, for example, and don't even bother venturing upward to the best ones in the league (Rodgers, Brees, Brady, etc.).
Click to expand...

No QB can throw when they are lying on their back, typically with a heavy defensive player on top.
 
Ray R said:
No QB can throw when they are lying on their back, typically with a heavy defensive player on top.
Click to expand...


And neither do any of those plays contribute to their personal performance statistics. There isn't a pass thrown when there is a sack.
 
FinfanInBuffalo said:
8th best is average?

CORRECTION - tied for 7th best
Click to expand...

And look at the QBs ranked above him:

Matt Ryan - MVP season - PFF ranked OL at 6
Tom Brady - HOF QB, PFF ranked OL at 10
Dak Prescott - PFF ranked OL at 2
Kirk Cousins - PFF ranked OL at 7
Marcus Mariota - PFF ranked OL at 1
Derek Carr - PFF ranked OL at 4

Andy Dalton (tied) - PFF ranked OL at 13
Tannehill - PFF ranked OL at 30
 
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