The Great Quarterback Debate... | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The Great Quarterback Debate...

sports24/7 said:
As for your QB A, B, and C debate. Here's one for you:

QB A: 9565 yards passing in 3 years starting, 86 TD's, 28 INT's

QB B: 4548 yards in two years starting, 22 TD's, 26 INT's

QB C: 5400 yards in 3 years starting, 23 TD's, 32 INT's

I'll even add a QB D: 3763 yards passing in one full year starting 32 TD's 8 INT's

Can you guess which QBs turned out to be great NFL QB's and which ones didn't? Not based on the statistics because your college statistics have more to do with who is on your team and who you play against rather than how good you are.

EDIT: For those who are interested
A-Ken Dorsey
B-Matt Hasselbeck
C-Trent Green
D-Akili Smith
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Hey, any team that takes a chance at Ken Dorsey and develop him would benefit greatly. The guy has potential and has shown potential with that crappy 49ers team. I remember that 49ers vs Seahawks game earlier this season, which was the Hall of Fame game for Steve Young, Ken Dorsey looked great.

And he's young and a Free Agent as well.
 
Vertical Limit said:
Hey, any team that takes a chance at Ken Dorsey and develop him would benefit greatly. The guy has potential and has shown potential with that crappy 49ers team. I remember that 49ers vs Seahawks game earlier this season, which was the Hall of Fame game for Steve Young, Ken Dorsey looked great.

And he's young and a Free Agent as well.
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he looked great for ken dorsey. nothing too special for any other QB.
 
He has not been coached well. Come on now, just look at that 49ers coaching staff. Since Steve Young left the team, that team went to crap. Get him the right coaching staff, and he can develop into a star. He has all the talent, and looked alot better than Alex Smith.

Just look at Matt Hasselback, a 6 round draft choice by Green Bay. The right coaching staff lead him to be the elite QB he is right now in the NFC.
 
Vertical Limit said:
He has not been coached well. Come on now, just look at that 49ers coaching staff. Since Steve Young left the team, that team went to crap. Get him the right coaching staff, and he can develop into a star. He has all the talent, and looked alot better than Alex Smith.

Just look at Matt Hasselback, a 6 round draft choice by Green Bay. The right coaching staff lead him to be the elite QB he is right now in the NFC.
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dorsey was never that good in college. he got the ball to his players, but he tended to made poor decisions, lacked the ability to escape a pass rush, had poor footwork, a very weak arm, etc. he's "good journeyman" written all over him.
 
fishypete said:
How did he raise his stock up? His practices were average....his bowl game was below average...unless you consider 32% comp rating good. You can make excuses for him...but then you have to make the same excuses for all of the QB's....they all had the same conditions.
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Pete,

I agree that his game was "nothing to write home about" but his practices awd the scouts. Where are you getting your info from. I'm beginning to think your just bias against Cutler for some reason. That's ashame because it shows your ignorance on the subject. :o
 
Miami_Dolphins said:
Cutler: 710/1242 attempts 57.1%, 59 TD, 36 INT, avg. 2,174 yds/season

Clemens: 613/1005, 61%, 71 TD, 24 INT, avg 1,890 yds/season, and thats with one year (2002) where he barely played


Dont like career stats?

Cutler (2005): 273/462, 59.8%, 21 TD, 9 INT, 126 Rating
Clemens (2005): 185/289, 64%, 19 TD, 4 INT, 153 Rating

"Well, Cutler is mobile and that makes hm a more complete player"
Not really, Cutler was sacked about 23 times, Clemens? Eight.




Yeah, I'd say clemens is just as good, IF not better.
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your posts are getting redundant - look, we get it: you think cutler is a terrible choice for qb. but you base your argument on college stats - i'm sure gino torretta had great numbers coming out of his senior year. wasn't it mark twain that said there are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics. if stats are all you should go by, then i'm sure there are a few more names you could throw into the argument. but they don't tell the whole story - what about the fact that cutler played in arguably one of the toughest conferences in the country, on a team that was brutal, and he's still in the discussion for who might be the best choice for us at qb. your anti-cutler bias undermines most of the effectiveness of your arguments.
 
Juan Cribbs said:
dorsey was never that good in college. he got the ball to his players, but he tended to made poor decisions, lacked the ability to escape a pass rush, had poor footwork, a very weak arm, etc. he's "good journeyman" written all over him.
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Those are all things that can be worked on. He is a good manager of the game, and has potential to be a star with the right team and the right coaches if they give him a chance and develop him, is all I am saying. If I were the Chicago Bears, I would definitely grab him. They need a QB, at the same time, I wouldn't be against bringing him back in Miami as a backup and compete for the starter position with Gus Frerotte if we don't find that QB that we are looking for. Sage is rumored to get released, so whatever.

And all those things you just mentioned about Dorsey are the same things I saw from Jay Cutler yesterday and that game against LSU he had earlier this season with a 55.0 passer rating.
 
Miami_Dolphins said:
"Rumors of an Aaron Rodgers-like draft slide for USC quarterback Matt Leinart are already being discussed."


Interesting
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If Leinart "slips" as you call it I guarantee it won't be past 4 to the Jets! If by some crazy act of the football gods he were to fall to 16 and the Fins, i would have to clean my shorts out and I'm sure Saban would to.....Hmmm I think we should start the rumor that Leinart does crack as our last rookie QB had some drug questions coming into the draft and that turned out pretty well!:wink:
 
Finfanforever said:
Pete,

I agree that his game was "nothing to write home about" but his practices awd the scouts. Where are you getting your info from. I'm beginning to think your just bias against Cutler for some reason. That's ashame because it shows your ignorance on the subject. :o
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Scott Wright
President, NFL Draft Countdown

The following are my initial impressions of some of the players from the game. Please keep in mind that I watched the game from the sidelines and have not yet seen the television broadcast so this is VERY preliminary.

At quarterback I saw a lot of the same things from Jay Cutler that I had seen all week, a great arm, flashes of brilliance but largely a lot of inconsistency.

The story of this game was the guys in the trenches, who really dominated their South counterparts on both sides of the ball. Tamba Hali was the most impressive player I saw on the field while Charlie Whitehurst outshined his more hyped teammate Jay Cutler.

I'd say it's all in the eye of the beholder...but I do have to ask you this...what scouts are you talking about? What are their names? What teams do they work for? Can you provide anything in writing...from these scouts?

I think you'll find that you won't find anything from a scout...not if he wants to work...as a scout....what you may hear are opinions from Draftniks...and wannabe scouts...or as I like to think of them...Guru's.

You'll also find...that practices have there place...but there's nothing like a game....nothing in the world....:sidelol:
 
fishypete said:
Scott Wright
President, NFL Draft Countdown

The following are my initial impressions of some of the players from the game. Please keep in mind that I watched the game from the sidelines and have not yet seen the television broadcast so this is VERY preliminary.

At quarterback I saw a lot of the same things from Jay Cutler that I had seen all week, a great arm, flashes of brilliance but largely a lot of inconsistency.

The story of this game was the guys in the trenches, who really dominated their South counterparts on both sides of the ball. Tamba Hali was the most impressive player I saw on the field while Charlie Whitehurst outshined his more hyped teammate Jay Cutler.

I'd say it's all in the eye of the beholder...but I do have to ask you this...what scouts are you talking about? What are their names? What teams do they work for? Can you provide anything in writing...from these scouts?

I think you'll find that you won't find anything from a scout...not if he wants to work...as a scout....what you may hear are opinions from Draftniks...and wannabe scouts...or as I like to think of them...Guru's.

You'll also find...that practices have there place...but there's nothing like a game....nothing in the world....:sidelol:
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All the info I heard was that Cutler SOLIDIFIED himself as a mid-to-top FIRST ROUNDER. Mel Kiper as well as Romeo Cromel (Browns) and others backed up that opinion.
 
your posts are getting redundant - look, we get it: you think cutler is a terrible choice for qb. but you base your argument on college stats -
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What is he supposed to base it on for two college players? High school stats? Horoscopes?

i'm sure gino torretta had great numbers coming out of his senior year. wasn't it mark twain that said there are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics. if stats are all you should go by, then i'm sure there are a few more names you could throw into the argument. but they don't tell the whole story -
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If you look at them in proper context they do, absolutely. Another quote is also true "numbers don't lie." People can lie WITH numbers, but the numbers don't.

Arguing against the use of stats in evaluation is the halllmark of someone who is losing an argument.

There are plenty of true, real stats in Cutler's favor. They matter... so do the bad ones. And putting them all in context is the key.. yes, it matters who he played with and against... how much? That's the room for debate.

what about the fact that cutler played in arguably one of the toughest conferences in the country, on a team that was brutal, and he's still in the discussion for who might be the best choice for us at qb. your anti-cutler bias undermines most of the effectiveness of your arguments.
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And he took them to what? A 3-6 record or something? Just because someone is on the opposite side of the argument from you doesn't mean their bias invalidates what they say. Especially if they are using facts and stats.

There are a lot of ways to defend Cutler and a lot of ways to deride him... he is an inconsistent and puzzling player to evaluate.

It's fair to look at all that.
 
All the info I heard was that Cutler SOLIDIFIED himself as a mid-to-top FIRST ROUNDER. Mel Kiper as well as Romeo Cromel (Browns) and others backed up that opinion.
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I've heard otherwise... remember, the very last thing people like Kiper can afford right now is to look stupid.

Before the game there were a TON of analysts saying that Cutler was going to rocket up the charts, that he was going to dominate the senior bowl and was right up there with Leinart and Young.

I thought at the time... "What happens if he doesn't? Do you take it all back?"

And I am NOT anti-Cutler, but anyone who says he belongs in the same discussion as Leinart (who i can't stand, but can respect) and Young is out of their ever-lovin' minds. He has done nothing to deserve that.

It happens every year. The pre-draft talk is as predictable as a Gilligan's Island episode.

As far as Cutler "solidifying" his draft postion, they absolutely HAD to be talking about practices, because he was terrible in the game.
 
nopony said:
I've heard otherwise... remember, the very last thing people like Kiper can afford right now is to look stupid.

Before the game there were a TON of analysts saying that Cutler was going to rocket up the charts, that he was going to dominate the senior bowl and was right up there with Leinart and Young.

I thought at the time... "What happens if he doesn't? Do you take it all back?"

And I am NOT anti-Cutler, but anyone who says he belongs in the same discussion as Leinart (who i can't stand, but can respect) and Young is out of their ever-lovin' minds. He has done nothing to deserve that.

It happens every year. The pre-draft talk is as predictable as a Gilligan's Island episode.

As far as Cutler "solidifying" his draft postion, they absolutely HAD to be talking about practices, because he was terrible in the game.
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He certainly did not have a good showing in the game but the scouts were on him like stink-on-crap during the week at practice and they liked what they saw.
 
He certainly did not have a good showing in the game but the scouts were on him like stink-on-crap during the week at practice and they liked what they saw.
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That's what I heard, too. And I have no problem with that. i don't hold one game against anybody.
 
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