Whatever, if we had consistently targeted the most important need (QB) we would be set by now. We had our pick with Matt Ryan and blew it trying to be .... yes... as usual......safe.
WVDolphan's "Get Real" Today's subject-Physically challenged 2nd round money bargains
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Whatever, if we had consistently targeted the most important need (QB) we would be set by now. We had our pick with Matt Ryan and blew it trying to be .... yes... as usual......safe.
hugoguzman
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For millionth time, we get it.
You think that Henne is no good and that Ryan (despite having accomplished little of major significance thus far) is the greatest blunder in recent Dolphins memory.
And you think that you're the bomb at analyzing football (with phrases like "maybe to a casual fan, but they can't hid from me" and "I'm just at a complete loss that people couldn't see that beforehand")
You expressed these three concepts repeatedly on this forum, so please, move onto some fresh material/ideas/topics.
P.S. It'd be great to see Miami draft a QB in the first round if a) Henne's injury is more serious than "day to day" b) Thigpen does not play extremely well c) there's a quality quarterback on the board when the Dolphins select
Pachyderm_Wave
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Asking the Lions anything is irrelevant... they have one of the 1st round left tackles off of this list (Jeff Backus) in place to protect Stafford... Jim Schwartz swears up and down that Backus should've made the pro bowl last year...
Just because Stafford's shoulder is like Pennington's, doesn't mean it's because they don't have a left tackle.... ask Chad Pennington and Chad Henne how relevant having a pro-bowl left tackle to protect their blindside was last Sunday...
It wasn't Jake Long's fault that Pennington and Henne are hurt, just like it isn't Jeff Backus' fault that Stafford is always hurt.... your point is horrible... you're learning nothing obviously...
Secondly, Long being more of a sure thing than Ryan is a matter of opinion... the only reason Long was more of a sure thing is because if he couldn't play left tackle, he can be moved to right tackle, etc.. and if he can't hack it at right tackle, he can be moved to guard and so on and so forth...
That "safe" pick is what's going to send this regime to meet the same fate as all the one's before it... failure to hit on a quarterback is always going to be the undoing of any regime.. no matter how many "safe" left tackles they draft...
Jake Long doesn't have any playoff wins either... what's your point? Matt Ryan is as consistent week to week as Jake Long is... that's why Matt Ryan is 1-0 versus Miami.. while Long was busy being John Abraham and Kroy Beirmann's b*tch...
You do realize that I'm allowed to discuss anything I want here right? I'm going to remind you again, don't attempt to play thought police... you're clueless...and completely whiff in literally every. Single. Post.
...trust me.. we get it.. that's life.
CW_McGraw
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One important thing you're neglecting in your analysis is that first round OTs have a much higher floor than first round QBs. Guys like Leonard Davis, Robert Gallery, and Vernon Carey were never franchise LTs and could have been considered busts at one point, but have become solid NFL players and even Pro Bowlers at different spots on the O-line. If a first round QB fails, he's completely and utterly useless. You can't him move a QB to TE or WR. What made Jake Long a smart, safe pick is that even if he turned out to be a bust at LT, he could dominate at RT or at guard.
Furthermore, it's a bit of a logical fallacy to call a QB good because he "wins." In Super Bowl 42, if Asante Samuel catches that sideline pass, Brady completes that bomb to Moss at the end of the game, or Richard Seymour learns to tackle a slow unathletic white guy, Eli Manning probably isn't even the QB in New York right now. Eli Manning didn't win a Super Bowl because he's a good QB. Eli Manning is considered to be a good QB because he won the Super Bowl.
Ricky'sWeinerBong
Tony Jabroni
I loved Jake Long at Michigan. I thought it was a pipe dream the Phins would be in a position to get him. Even I can see Matt Ryan was the pick there. Hugo, Ive talked alot of College ball with Slimm over the years, and his evaluation of college prospects is usually bang on. He was on record for wanting Patrick Willis when Theodore was drafted. He obviously wanted Matt Ryan. The guy knows his **** in regards to college prospects, and since you admit yourself you dont follow College ball much, then you can never be anything more than a Monday Morning QB in terms of who we should draft.
For a franchise that has been utter crap since Marino hung them up, it amazes me people still cant get on board with drafting qb's high till we hit on one. We have tried it the other way for many years now and it aint working. The evidence is right in front of all our faces.
For a franchise that has been utter crap since Marino hung them up, it amazes me people still cant get on board with drafting qb's high till we hit on one. We have tried it the other way for many years now and it aint working. The evidence is right in front of all our faces.
hugoguzman
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So basically, what you're saying is that the Lions disagree with you as well (since they invested a first round pick on a left tackle)? Cool. Thanks for affirmation. If need be, we can compare teams that make that investment vs. teams that don't (you'll be on the losing end of that argument as well).
As for Long being the safer bet, you're damn right. And until Ryan does something of significance, like you know, win a few playoff games, go deep into the postseason, get to the postseason consistently, put up big-time production year in and year out, there's really precious little to support your argument.
Lastly, you're certainly allowed to discuss anything you want, as am I.
And for the time being I will insist on being repetitive and bringing up the same concepts over and over, if for no other reason than to show just how boring you can be when comparing Ryan to Henne and/or praising Ryan and/or bashing Henne over and over and over again in threads that are not about those topics.
Oh, and as for your insistence on praising yourself and your divine football analysis powers, by all means, carry on. It's hilarious!
Pachyderm_Wave
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I didn't overlook the fact that a tackle can be moved to another position, in fact, I just pointed that out in my reply to Guzman... but you don't select a guy that high in the draft with the intentions of playing him at guard... if he doesn't turn out to be your guy at left tackle, you whiffed on the pick, but the fact that the offensive line has 4 other positions allowed you to salvage it...
Protecting the QB's blindside is the arguement that everyone makes to legitimize a left tackles value in the first place, if he isn't doing that, you didn't accomplish what you set out to do with that pick...
Eli was a good quarterback before he won the superbowl... but his perception among fans and his peers certainly changed after winning it....
hugoguzman
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As we've discussed many times, Ryan is a real nice QB right now, FOR THE ATLANTA FALCONS.
You have absolutely no way of knowing how he would have developed here in Miami. For starters, he would not have benefited from having a Hall of Fame tight end, but I digress...
Until Ryan does something significant (as I've outlined above) he'll just be another nice NFL QB. Not a franchise QB, which is what Miami should be aiming for.
As for Slimm and his college evaluation, it's great that he hit on Patrick Willis (so did I, but again, I digress). I'd be willing to bet that he has also missed on his fair share of guys (like everyone else does including actual NFL evaluators). That's no excuse parading around patting yourself on the back on how great your football analysis skills are. Let others do that for you (but hey, that's just my crazy opinion, right?)
P.S. Where'd you get that I don't follow college football much? You must have me confused with some other (much worse looking) guy.
Lastly, I do agree with the idea of drafting a QB in the first round, but I think it's fair for folks to come up with counter arguments as long as there's some semblance of validity. That's what these forums are for, as opposed to "you suck because you don't agree with my opinion" posts (again, in my humble opinion)
Pachyderm_Wave
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Did you not just insinuate that the Lions don't understand the importance of the left tackle position while grooming a quarterback? Then when I show you how wrong you are, now it's the Lions disagree with me and agree with you?
Stop pretending you're a moron Guzman... you're an intelligent kid...
The Lions were drafting 1st round quarterbacks long before they selected Jeff Backus... does Andre Ware ring a bell?
Unlike you, I don't need stats or hindsight results to back my opinion, I already know... but just for you...they're coming... trust me.
Bashing Henne, and being convinced that he's not the answer is two completely different things... learn the difference.
Lastly, I know you're going to insist on being repetitive and repeating the same nonsense... like I've told you before, we figured out how clueless you were a LONG time ago... that's what's hilarious.
Ricky'sWeinerBong
Tony Jabroni
Pretty sure you stated you dont follow College ball too closely Guzman. Also, as Ive pointed out numerous times playoff success does not equal franchise qb. Philip Rivers is widely regarded as a no brainer franchise qb with very little playoff success. But having him at qb always gives his team a chance to win any given game.
hugoguzman
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Agree that Eli is a good (not great) NFL QB.
Interestingly, Eli is a guy that has a career completion percentage below 60% and also struggled with TD-to-INT ratio until his fourth full year as a starter, and all this despite having some very solid weapons in his arsenal.
But because he had first-overall pick credentials, he was given ample opportunity to progress and become the very solid quarterback that he is today.
Interestingly, Eli is a guy that has a career completion percentage below 60% and also struggled with TD-to-INT ratio until his fourth full year as a starter, and all this despite having some very solid weapons in his arsenal.
But because he had first-overall pick credentials, he was given ample opportunity to progress and become the very solid quarterback that he is today.
shula_guy
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Come on man Penny was one hit away from being finished. He was barely touched and his shoulder gave out. It was poor coaching to put him under center. Henne's inlury was a strange fluke. He was barely hit too. If you think your O-Line is never going to give up a sack your sadly mistaken. Both Carey and Long keep Henne realitivily safe from outside pressure.
Now I do agree that Henne's subpar performances have put a lot of pressure on the line to keep the pocket in tact for him and his lack of mobility only compounds that issue. Henne is what he is, a young QB learning on the job. So far he has been a let down but its not over yet.
As far as identifing Matt Ryan as being a HOF QB coming out, I got no oppion on that. I do not watch college ball so I never saw him play. I have no idea if this guy luck is worth all the hype he has been getting on these boards I leave that to our scouts. It just aint my thing. I do agree if you think you got a shot at a special pl;ayer you take it especially if its a Probowl QB and you aint got one. Hell if it was me in charge and I thought Ryan was the cats meow I would draft him and show his *** the bench until I could build a team around him.
Personally I'm still pissed at Saban. We could of signed steve hutchingson in FA and had our all pro left tackle and then traded up in the draft for Cutler (like denver did). Yes I like Cutler even though he is struggling. Instead we wasted a 2nd rd pick to get Culpepper (passed on Bress) and took Jason frigging Allen. Now that was a terrible off season for us. I'd like to kick bSaban right in the nuts for somehow making the team worse then when he got here Oh and I wanted to keep Hostetler and let Cutler sit on the bench 1 yr to pick things up. Anyhow I'm going off topic.
I think what this regime has in mind is to build our core first and then plug a QB into a winning formula. Thats not a horrible philosphy. You guys act like we missed out on the next Marino for passing on Ryan. I think it is a little early in his career to say all that. He does look good when I've seen him play but I do not watch him enough to annoint him nor has he a proven record of consistency or greatness for that.
If this guy Luck is all that maybe we get lucky and the bills take him and he pulls an elway or an eli and refuses to play for them and we can make some kind offer for him. Who knows football is a crazy sport.
Ricky'sWeinerBong
Tony Jabroni
Its interesting, because even Dan Marino himself is a little ga ga over Matt Ryan. But hey, wtf does that man know about the QB position?
Tunaphish429
1st Ballot Hall of Famer
Yea? Steve Young said John Beck was going to be a good NFL quarter back.
Bill Walsh said Trent Edwards was a heck of a qb as well..
It means nothing. The reason why is because you and I can not measure the willingess to get better.. The drive to be the best.
Tom Brady has it. Mike Vick did not, but of course he now has it.
Does Henne have it? I dont know that remains to be seen. Its hard to know how hard he works.
Pachyderm_Wave
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I'm glad SOMEBODY FINALLY admitted they don't know what the hell they're talking about when it comes to Matt Ryan, college or NFL... I've been talking to the same quality of people about it since September of '07... but you're the only one that's ever admitted it..
It doesn't matter whether Penny or Henne's injury was a fluke... you could say that about all these QB's who get injured that DON'T have Jake Long protecting them...
Signing a guard to that much money (Hutchinson) is a worse idea than giving all that guaranteed money to a left tackle... guards are the least valuable position on the offensive side of the ball. That's why they're rarely drafted in the 1st round, and don't command the big bucks... you're just as good with a 4th round guy at that position as a 1st round guy when you take the big picture into consideration.
I've always said that Miami should've traded up for Cutler as opposed to signing an injured dumbbell like Culpepper... strange that I hear that repeated back at me all the time now...
Matt Ryan is going to end up better than ANYBODY thinks... especially the idiots that knocked him. All anyone ever said was that "He's not Peyton Manning" as to why Miami shouldn't have taken him #1 overall...
Now.... it's funny how everyone is trying to find the "next" Matt Ryan... I just laugh...