WVDolphan's "Get Real" Today's subject-Physically challenged 2nd round money bargains

[hugoguzman]

Pretty sure you stated you dont follow College ball too closely Guzman. Also, as Ive pointed out numerous times playoff success does not equal franchise qb. Philip Rivers is widely regarded as a no brainer franchise qb with very little playoff success. But having him at qb always gives his team a chance to win any given game.

No, I never said that. What I said is that I'm no draft expert. I watch a lot of college football and I like to keep tabs on NFL prospects, the NFL draft, etc...and guess what, I hit on a lot of guys.

But that doesn't make me a draft expert.

Just ask my wife if I watch my fair share of college football. She'll give you the straight scoop.

As for Rivers, he does have playoff success (in addition to statistical production that blows Ryan out of the water). He's been the AFC championship. Ryan has yet to win a single playoff game (though I could see that happening this year). Until Ryan does either one of these things (produce big numbers consistently and/or win some playoff games) he's not there yet.

P.S. If I had a nickel for every time a QB-turned-TV personality gushed over some young QB, I'd be a billionaire.

 

[hugoguzman]

like I've told you before, we figured out how clueless you were a LONG time ago... that's what's hilarious.

Ah yes, that's the brand of hubris I've come to expect from you. Classic stuff!

One of the main reasons I take a break from some of the other Dolphins forums to stop by finheaven.

P.S. I know you are, but what am I? (classic, I tell ya)

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Ah yes, that's the brand of hubris I've come to expect from you. Classic stuff!

One of the main reasons I take a break from some of the other Dolphins forums to stop by finheaven.

P.S. I know you are, but what am I? (classic, I tell ya)

Have your "sophisticated" friends stop by... watching you get dizzy and puke all over yourself from all the spinning has gotten monotonous...

 

[madmic21]

The worst thing about this is when I look at our entire drafts from 2000-2007 and what do I see? Nothing Chris Chambers was a probowl player that wasn't that good, and there was another probowler which I can't even think of at this point. Bottom line is the organization was a complete bust before 2008 in regards to any player who could possibly still be on the roster. The Long pick i think had a lot more to do with the fact that a young QB was going to blown apart on this team. No one to pass to, no line to run or pass block, no D to keep him out of obvious passing situations. What really hurt us is an 11-5 season when in reality we were as talented as a 5-11 team. Ball just bounced in our favor that year. Wildcat, weak schedule, QB who played lights out... I really think that by going 11-5 we bounced out of what we thought would be a good slot for taking a QB in a decently strong QB year. We had planned to take a QB just by the fact that we took Pat White. He was best available for the most part without overreaching in the first or trading up. This group wanted to get their line settled in 2008 and did not expect to be out of the top 10 picks in 2009... Just a wild hunch...

 

[phintim]

Hill Billy is up to it again. You left off your list Jamarcus Russell and a few others who have not cut the mustard over the years. Yea the Vikes did the same thing gave up their whole draft for a known player from the Cowpolks who played well and were rediculed forever for it. "If" Sanchez had been another Jamarcus Russell you would be laughing at them.
You just can't stop from slinging mud.
Interesting that you know more than Don Shula who was just quoted as saying he felt good about Henne.
Jake Long was a sure thing in the draft and guess what since then LT have been going like hotcakes in the first rounds. Ryan Leaf has turned out well but was a gamble pick compared to a Jake Long.
We are into our 3rd year with some potential probowlers on the team where there were none just 2 1/5 years ago. The roster has been churned.
I am sure if your 1st round QB pick was playing next year and the recievers he was throwing to were dropping the ball on him like they have Henne then your finger pointing would start again except this time it would be aimed at the wide recievers.

 

[shula_guy]

I'm glad SOMEBODY FINALLY admitted they don't know what the hell they're talking about when it comes to Matt Ryan, college or NFL... I've been talking to the same quality of people about it since September of '07... but you're the only one that's ever admitted it..


It doesn't matter whether Penny or Henne's injury was a fluke... you could say that about all these QB's who get injured that DON'T have Jake Long protecting them...


Signing a guard to that much money (Hutchinson) is a worse idea than giving all that guaranteed money to a left tackle... guards are the least valuable position on the offensive side of the ball. That's why they're rarely drafted in the 1st round, and don't command the big bucks... you're just as good with a 4th round guy at that position as a 1st round guy when you take the big picture into consideration.

I've always said that Miami should've traded up for Cutler as opposed to signing an injured dumbbell like Culpepper... strange that I hear that repeated back at me all the time now...


Matt Ryan is going to end up better than ANYBODY thinks... especially the idiots that knocked him. All anyone ever said was that "He's not Peyton Manning" as to why Miami shouldn't have taken him #1 overall...


Now.... it's funny how everyone is trying to find the "next" Matt Ryan... I just laugh...

I do not pretend to know things I do no not know. I have never portrayed myself to be an expert on anything here. I will tell you I know quality play when I see it.

I thought Hutchingson was a tackle?

You can search my post history all the way back to 05 or whatever draft he came out in and you will see my posts sayinhg I thought Cutler was the guy to take and I know squat about drafts. I'll say this though I still admit I wanted Cutler even though he is considered a fraud now. My posts are honest if nothing else.

For the record I apperiate your oppions and respect the time you take to voice them even if I do not agree with all of them. I think many on this site has gotten frustrated with all our struggles and it has been coming out in disrespectinjg one another. I wish everyone would make their points without belittling who they are responding too. Like it or not we are all in this together. We all want the Dolphins to start winning the big games again.

As far as Ryan goes, only time will tell. All players are one hit away from ending their careers and sometimes it crops up before they even get off the ground. Welcome to the NFL. A man's sport.


:sidelol: @ me I just looked it up Hutchingson is a guard, all this time I thought he was a tackle. Now I feel dumb anyhow thanks for pointing that out. Nothing beats learning something new

 

[hoops]

I loved Jake Long at Michigan. I thought it was a pipe dream the Phins would be in a position to get him. Even I can see Matt Ryan was the pick there. Hugo, Ive talked alot of College ball with Slimm over the years, and his evaluation of college prospects is usually bang on. He was on record for wanting Patrick Willis when Theodore was drafted. He obviously wanted Matt Ryan. The guy knows his **** in regards to college prospects, and since you admit yourself you dont follow College ball much, then you can never be anything more than a Monday Morning QB in terms of who we should draft.

For a franchise that has been utter crap since Marino hung them up, it amazes me people still cant get on board with drafting qb's high till we hit on one. We have tried it the other way for many years now and it aint working. The evidence is right in front of all our faces.

slimm does know qbs...i like ricky have known him a long time and he can pick a impact pro qb from the college ranks...too bad he sucks at oline lol...jason smith...ugh

j/k slimm

 

[hoops]

Come on man Penny was one hit away from being finished. He was barely touched and his shoulder gave out. It was poor coaching to put him under center. Henne's inlury was a strange fluke. He was barely hit too. If you think your O-Line is never going to give up a sack your sadly mistaken. Both Carey and Long keep Henne realitivily safe from outside pressure.

Now I do agree that Henne's subpar performances have put a lot of pressure on the line to keep the pocket in tact for him and his lack of mobility only compounds that issue. Henne is what he is, a young QB learning on the job. So far he has been a let down but its not over yet.

As far as identifing Matt Ryan as being a HOF QB coming out, I got no oppion on that. I do not watch college ball so I never saw him play. I have no idea if this guy luck is worth all the hype he has been getting on these boards I leave that to our scouts. It just aint my thing. I do agree if you think you got a shot at a special pl;ayer you take it especially if its a Probowl QB and you aint got one. Hell if it was me in charge and I thought Ryan was the cats meow I would draft him and show his *** the bench until I could build a team around him.

Personally I'm still pissed at Saban. We could of signed steve hutchingson in FA and had our all pro left tackle and then traded up in the draft for Cutler (like denver did). Yes I like Cutler even though he is struggling. Instead we wasted a 2nd rd pick to get Culpepper (passed on Bress) and took Jason frigging Allen. Now that was a terrible off season for us. I'd like to kick bSaban right in the nuts for somehow making the team worse then when he got here Oh and I wanted to keep Hostetler and let Cutler sit on the bench 1 yr to pick things up. Anyhow I'm going off topic.

I think what this regime has in mind is to build our core first and then plug a QB into a winning formula. Thats not a horrible philosphy. You guys act like we missed out on the next Marino for passing on Ryan. I think it is a little early in his career to say all that. He does look good when I've seen him play but I do not watch him enough to annoint him nor has he a proven record of consistency or greatness for that.


If this guy Luck is all that maybe we get lucky and the bills take him and he pulls an elway or an eli and refuses to play for them and we can make some kind offer for him. Who knows football is a crazy sport.

how is a guy landing on henne's planted leg a strange fluke injury???

 

[shula_guy]

how is a guy landing on henne's planted leg a strange fluke injury???

It did not look that bad to me and i was shocked to see him limp off to the locker room and not return to the field. It just did not look that bad to me.

 

[hoops]

It did not look that bad to me and i was shocked to see him limp off to the locker room and not return to the field. It just did not look that bad to me.

it looked to me like his lower leg ended up at a gross angle...i thought it was knee and ankle/lower leg...we escaped i guess and good thing...cause if we lost him the season was over...finished...done

there's a reason thigpen got traded for a 5th rounder...and that he's been rumored on the trade block etc wherever he goes...he's not a long term stabilizer at the position...we're gonna find that out

 

[67Stang]

Whatever, if we had consistently targeted the most important need (QB) we would be set by now. We had our pick with Matt Ryan and blew it trying to be .... yes... as usual......safe.

If you want to call Jake Long blowing it, ya...no. We also had other glaring needs at the time, so that is why we had the contract done before the draft. Matt Ryan being a QB would have been a hell of a lot more expensive. We don't win the AFC East that year with Matt Ryan, less money, and no Jake Long.

 

[shula_guy]

If you want to call Jake Long blowing it, ya...no. We also had other glaring needs at the time, so that is why we had the contract done before the draft. Matt Ryan being a QB would have been a hell of a lot more expensive. We don't win the AFC East that year with Matt Ryan, less money, and no Jake Long.

At the time we had cap issues as well. The money was an issue.

 

[thefranchisedef]

Have to agree with WV on this one. It's not even close.

Saying that Rivers isn't as good as the guys you mentioned because he doesn't have a ring is like saying that Marino wasn't better than his contemporaries because he never got a ring.

Rivers appears to be on his way to an MVP season (unless Vick continues to put up historic numbers like he did last night) and has been consistently doing so for some time. Moreover, he almost defeated one of the greatest teams of all time (Patriots) on a torn ACL in a game where his Hall of Fame running back decided to sit out with a sore toe.

Brees, while extremely solid, was fairly mediocre early in his career and benefits from having a start-studded offense with tons of weapons. Meanwhile, Brees is putting up his numbers while throwing to a couple of a nice weapons as well as a bunch of guys fresh off the practice squad.

But hey, you're entitled to your opinion.

Brees had the most accurate season of ALL TIME, last season. the guy has thrown for 5000 yards before. dont give me the whole star studded team crap.. he makes all those players better. devery henderson is no where near a star, robert meachem is average, and marques colston is not even a top 20 reciever. brees spreads the ball around better than anyone. when bill belicheck pulls tom brady because he knows he cant beat you with him because you have the far superior quarterback, thats when you know youre the ****!

oh, and the guys i named were the guys that brees beat in one season.. no quarterback has outplayed all those guys in one season. drew brees is the man, and he has his saints flying under the radar right now. phillip rivers couldnt beat the pats late, and he couldnt beat the chiefs late. Phillip rivers is not as good as drew brees. I say that, and i love phillip rivers

 

[hoops]

hey slimm i know you've been evaluating the upcoming qb class for quite a while now...i also know how much you enjoy it...that being said can you give me your top 5 draft eligible qbs in the upcoming draft and let me know what you think each one becomes in the pros...ie franchise qb as in top 12 in the league in time, solid starter, career backup etc

thanks...and also could you give me your current draft value for each and strengths and weaknesses

 

[Daytona Fin]

yawn. same old thread , different title